A Viconia Question: **Potential Spoilers!!** But more of a cautionary tale....

withnail

So, I think I may have screwed up. It's been a LONG time since I played BG (back when it was first released) and since BG2 EE is on hold, I kind of put it out of my mind and forgot that some of the NPCs in BG EE are now sequel characters.
So I have a good party and don't really have room for Viconia and well.... and I went and killed her.

My question is, have I created a serious problem for if and when BG2 EE is released (finger's crossed?).
Do I have to re-load a saved game? Problem is, I pled for quite a few hours before I realized this possible error....

Am I a dunderhead?

Thanks!

Heindrich

I'm sure you'll be fine.

In BG 1 Jaheira and Khalid killed Xzar and Montaron when an arguement escalated... nothing Charname could've done about it.

In BG 2 Xzar shows up asking for help to save Montaron...

In other words, BG 2 does not remember the history of what you did in BG 1.

In a world where the dead can be raised, I guess it doesn't take too much a stretch of the imagination.

ps: Oh yeah, and encase you didn't know. BG 2 works perfectly fine with a BG EE import. That's what I'm doing now.

withnail

Thanks!

SharGuidesMyHand

As far as I know, there is only one instance in which killing someone in BG1 will affect the outcome in BG2:

If you kill Drizzt in BG1, when you meet him in BG2 he will "remember" and point out that you killed him. IIRC, there are several dialogue options, and you can still avoid another conflict by apologizing and saying it was a mistake.

Otherwise, as Heindrich said, the NPCs in BG2 don't seem to acknowledge anything you might've done to them in BG1.

withnail

He's safe and sound in my game!

TJ_Hooker

SharGuidesMyHand said:

As far as I know, there is only one instance in which killing someone in BG1 will affect the outcome in BG2:

If you kill Drizzt in BG1, when you meet him in BG2 he will "remember" and point out that you killed him. IIRC, there are several dialogue options, and you can still avoid another conflict by apologizing and saying it was a mistake.

Otherwise, as Heindrich said, the NPCs in BG2 don't seem to acknowledge anything you might've done to them in BG1.

Hmm, I could be wrong here, but I think Drizzt "remembering" you killing him is based specifically on whether or not you had a piece of his equipment in your inventory when you imported your character into BG2, rather than whether or not you killed him.

withnail

Still wish I'd pick-pocketed him! Anyway, It may not matter, unless these rights issues can be worked out....

Remenissions

TJ_Hooker is right, if you have twinkle in your inventory then he will "remember" that you killed him. An often-used bug is to drop it on the ground right before you talk to him then pick it up once your done. If you aren't wanting to fight him that is. (Or set up a forced-attack ambush )

Heindrich

withnail said:

Still wish I'd pick-pocketed him! Anyway, It may not matter, unless these rights issues can be worked out....

As I said, you can continue your BG EE adventure with BG 2 Vanilla. BG EE is based on the BG 2 engine and interface I think, so the two actually complement each other well, better than BG 1 Vanilla and BG 2, in fact.

The only exception to this is if you used one of the new BG EE kits, like Blackguard.

AstroBryGuy

For some of the NPCs that appear in both BG1 and BG2, their initial BG2 dialogs include "Aren't you dead?" options - a little wink from the developers to this possible continuity glitch.

Permidion_Stark

withnail said:

I have a good party and don't really have room for Viconia and well.... and I went and killed her.

You killed Viconia? Dude! How do you sleep nights?

withnail

Permidion_Stark said:

withnail said:

I have a good party and don't really have room for Viconia and well.... and I went and killed her.

You killed Viconia? Dude! How do you sleep nights?

*shrug* I didn't have room. Ajantis, Minsc, Jaheira, Neera (I know, I know) and me (Ranger...I know, I know), . No room for Viconia. Next time, different class for me and different lineup.

withnail

Heindrich1988 said:

withnail said:

Still wish I'd pick-pocketed him! Anyway, It may not matter, unless these rights issues can be worked out....

As I said, you can continue your BG EE adventure with BG 2 Vanilla. BG EE is based on the BG 2 engine and interface I think, so the two actually complement each other well, better than BG 1 Vanilla and BG 2, in fact.

The only exception to this is if you used one of the new BG EE kits, like Blackguard.

Can't really do BG2 vanilla on a Mac, anymore. Not w/o an earlier OS. Fingers crossed this rights issue gets worked out.

rdarken

Drizzit also remembers you killed him if you tell him you did hehe

Barzarel

withnail said:

So, I think I may have screwed up. It's been a LONG time since I played BG (back when it was first released) and since BG2 EE is on hold, I kind of put it out of my mind and forgot that some of the NPCs in BG EE are now sequel characters.
So I have a good party and don't really have room for Viconia and well.... and I went and killed her.

My question is, have I created a serious problem for if and when BG2 EE is released (finger's crossed?).
Do I have to re-load a saved game? Problem is, I pled for quite a few hours before I realized this possible error....

Am I a dunderhead?

Thanks!

I won't matter in BG2 unless Beamdog goes and make what happens in BG:EE follow to BG2:EE.

As for BG:EE well you lose the best healer there but then again if you have a good party having her along might be as much a reputation problem however, but if you have a evil party or neutral she is in my opinion the overall best healer.

withnail

Barzarel said:

withnail said:

So, I think I may have screwed up. It's been a LONG time since I played BG (back when it was first released) and since BG2 EE is on hold, I kind of put it out of my mind and forgot that some of the NPCs in BG EE are now sequel characters.
So I have a good party and don't really have room for Viconia and well.... and I went and killed her.

My question is, have I created a serious problem for if and when BG2 EE is released (finger's crossed?).
Do I have to re-load a saved game? Problem is, I pled for quite a few hours before I realized this possible error....

Am I a dunderhead?

Thanks!

I won't matter in BG2 unless Beamdog goes and make what happens in BG:EE follow to BG2:EE.

As for BG:EE well you lose the best healer there but then again if you have a good party having her along might be as much a reputation problem however, but if you have a evil party or neutral she is in my opinion the overall best healer.

Thanks. I am set for healing with Jaheira, Ajantis and 2 Rangers. Thing is, I forgot Minsc was a Ranger and made my main character a Ranger and well.... C'est la vie!

Arcalian

I'm not understanding the part where you killed her. Siding with her against the Flaming Fist doesn't mean you HAVE to take her into the party.

JediMindTrix

As you could kill her in BG1 and BG2 assumes you saved her, and AFAIK Overhaul isn't allowed to alter the story, I presume all will be well.

withnail

Arcalian said:

I'm not understanding the part where you killed her. Siding with her against the Flaming Fist doesn't mean you HAVE to take her into the party.

Well, she's evil, I have a good party....

Barzarel

withnail said:

Arcalian said:

I'm not understanding the part where you killed her. Siding with her against the Flaming Fist doesn't mean you HAVE to take her into the party.

Well, she's evil, I have a good party....

Well you can be lawful good and still save her, as the flaming fist intend to kill her on the spot without a trial, so technically a paladin could see it as unjust. And then just not have her join the party after. But then again its free to interpret how one see it.

Dragonspear

I think having a paladin keep her is a better idea. Assuming he doesn't use detect evil before helping her against the flaming fist. He probably would afterward and decide that since he saved someone who is Evil, even if it was in good context, it is his responsibility to make sure that they do no harm at this point.

withnail

Dragonspear said:

I think having a paladin keep her is a better idea. Assuming he doesn't use detect evil before helping her against the flaming fist. He probably would afterward and decide that since he saved someone who is Evil, even if it was in good context, it is his responsibility to make sure that they do no harm at this point.

Not sure the game is that sophisticated. You're discussing pretty advanced ethical relativism, here. :-)
Again, who was I going to replace with her? I worked myself into a corner by making my main character a Ranger. I'd basically have to give up Minsc or Jaheira and I kinda feel like I need them both.

withnail

Barzarel said:

withnail said:

Arcalian said:

I'm not understanding the part where you killed her. Siding with her against the Flaming Fist doesn't mean you HAVE to take her into the party.

Well, she's evil, I have a good party....

Well you can be lawful good and still save her, as the flaming fist intend to kill her on the spot without a trial, so technically a paladin could see it as unjust. And then just not have her join the party after. But then again its free to interpret how one see it.

Oh, I know I could save her, but as I said, I kinda worked myself into a corner by making my main character a Ranger. With 2 Rangers, a Paladin, a Fighter/Druid, a Thief and a Wild Mage (yeah, I kept her!) my only real choice is to lose Misc and I don't wanna! :-) Losing Minsc means losing a pretty great tank at this point, really.

GoodSteve

withnail said:

Barzarel said:

withnail said:

Arcalian said:

I'm not understanding the part where you killed her. Siding with her against the Flaming Fist doesn't mean you HAVE to take her into the party.

Well, she's evil, I have a good party....

Well you can be lawful good and still save her, as the flaming fist intend to kill her on the spot without a trial, so technically a paladin could see it as unjust. And then just not have her join the party after. But then again its free to interpret how one see it.

Oh, I know I could save her, but as I said, I kinda worked myself into a corner by making my main character a Ranger. With 2 Rangers, a Paladin, a Fighter/Druid, a Thief and a Wild Mage (yeah, I kept her!) my only real choice is to lose Misc and I don't wanna! :-) Losing Minsc means losing a pretty great tank at this point, really.

Truth be told Minsc is more of a damage dealer than a tank. With a 15 dex and 15 con and a typical affinity for two-handed weapons he doesn't really come stock with much tanking ability. If you play with max HP rolls he is a little more viable but with only 1 extra HP per roll, it only takes 1 or 2 bad rolls to make him pretty squishy. Also 15 dexterity only nets him a -1 AC so without a shield he's pretty easy to hit and with two pips in two-handed sword off the get go plus his two free ranger pips in two-weapon fighting not many people opt for a shield with Minsc and for good reason. You'll need to be at least 3rd level with him before you can get another pip into maces and make him really viable with a single weapon and shield.

Minsc is best used in the secondary line, behind say Kagain or Khalid or someone, he can attack with his reach using a two-handed weapon, deal a lot of damage and not get attacked in return.

Viconia is a good choice for an NPC. Being a cleric means she will have better spell selections than Jahiera (since Jaheira is multi druid and wont get access to many or perhaps any of the real nasty druid spells.) With a 19 dex she is decent at range with a good AC and 50% magic resistance on top of that. Truthfully I'd select Viconia over Jaheira were I in your shoes.

withnail

GoodSteve said:

withnail said:

Barzarel said:

withnail said:

Arcalian said:

I'm not understanding the part where you killed her. Siding with her against the Flaming Fist doesn't mean you HAVE to take her into the party.

Well, she's evil, I have a good party....

Well you can be lawful good and still save her, as the flaming fist intend to kill her on the spot without a trial, so technically a paladin could see it as unjust. And then just not have her join the party after. But then again its free to interpret how one see it.

Oh, I know I could save her, but as I said, I kinda worked myself into a corner by making my main character a Ranger. With 2 Rangers, a Paladin, a Fighter/Druid, a Thief and a Wild Mage (yeah, I kept her!) my only real choice is to lose Misc and I don't wanna! :-) Losing Minsc means losing a pretty great tank at this point, really.

Truth be told Minsc is more of a damage dealer than a tank. With a 15 dex and 15 con and a typical affinity for two-handed weapons he doesn't really come stock with much tanking ability. If you play with max HP rolls he is a little more viable but with only 1 extra HP per roll, it only takes 1 or 2 bad rolls to make him pretty squishy. Also 15 dexterity only nets him a -1 AC so without a shield he's pretty easy to hit and with two pips in two-handed sword off the get go plus his two free ranger pips in two-weapon fighting not many people opt for a shield with Minsc and for good reason. You'll need to be at least 3rd level with him before you can get another pip into maces and make him really viable with a single weapon and shield.

Minsc is best used in the secondary line, behind say Kagain or Khalid or someone, he can attack with his reach using a two-handed weapon, deal a lot of damage and not get attacked in return.

Viconia is a good choice for an NPC. Being a cleric means she will have better spell selections than Jahiera (since Jaheira is multi druid and wont get access to many or perhaps any of the real nasty druid spells.) With a 19 dex she is decent at range with a good AC and 50% magic resistance on top of that. Truthfully I'd select Viconia over Jaheira were I in your shoes.

Absolutely right, sorry. I mis-"spoke." I didn't mean a tank as much as a killing machine. :-)