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Missing informations about natural bonuses to thieves skills

EdvinEdvin Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 3,244
edited September 2013 in BG:EE Bugs (v1.2)
All race ( except human ) have natural bonuses ( and penalties ) to thieves skills. This informations missing in their description in race selection. It should be there.

Race_--_Pick Pocket___Open Locks____Find Traps___Move Silently___Hide in Shadows___Detect Illusion__Set Traps
Human_=__0______________0_____________0_____________0________________0___________________0___________0
Elf_____=_+5_____________-5_____________0____________+5_____________+10__________________0___________0
Half-Elf=+10_____________0______________0_____________0______________+5___________________0___________0
Gnome=___0_____________+5__________+10____________+5_____________+5_________________+10_________+5
Halfling=_+5_____________+5___________+5___________+10____________+15__________________0____________0
Dwarf__=__0____________+10__________+15_____________0_______________0__________________+5_________+10
Half-Orc=_0______________0_____________0______________0_______________0___________________0___________0
Dee

Comments

  • GallowglassGallowglass Member Posts: 3,356
    Good point, @Edvin. The table is included in the manual for the original BG2 (not BG1), and is also available various places online, but the BGee documentation omitted most of the tables.
  • AedanAedan Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 8,550
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    edited September 2013
    Got it; thanks.

    EDIT: As a quick update--the values in your post above, @Edvin, are not the same as the ones used in-game. That will definitely need to be addressed somewhere.
    Post edited by Dee on
  • GallowglassGallowglass Member Posts: 3,356
    @Dee - the values in @Edvin's post are the ones which are widely published, including on sites which pride themselves on accurate detailed data. If they're nevertheless the wrong values, that's quite significant. (I'm sure many people have based character-creation choices on the assumption that this table is correct!)

    I've therefore just spent some time checking it out for myself, rolling a set of vanilla Thieves of every playable race, all with identical DEX, and comparing the initial values of every Thief skill. I'm reluctant to contradict a member of the official team ... but my test results are completely identical to @Edvin's table. Are you sure there's an error, and if so then can you please explain further?
  • TJ_HookerTJ_Hooker Member Posts: 2,438
    edited September 2013
    Humans and half-orcs, by default, get 15 to Pick Pockets, 10 to Open Locks, 5 to Find Traps, 10 to Move Silently, and 5 to Hide In Shadows. I believe the bonuses listed in the above table are the additional bonuses that the different races get, on top of the 'base' values that humans and half-orcs get.
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    @TJ_Hooker has it correct. Every race starts with the human/half-orc values as a base, and then adds their racial bonuses on top of it.

    So if we're going to document them, it makes sense to document the entire value.
    TJ_Hookerelminster
  • GallowglassGallowglass Member Posts: 3,356
    Ah yes, @Dee, that's a plausible alternative way of looking at it.

    I was taking it for granted that we were starting from the default allocation of 15/10/5/10/5/0/0, since we're calling the adjustments bonuses, and on that basis @Edvin's table is correct.

    Instead, we could have a table called "Thieving Skills for each Race" (showing the totals, as you propose), instead of "Thieving Skill Racial Adjustments" (which is the title in the original BG2 manual, showing only racial bonuses rather than racial totals).
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    Probably what will happen is the total modifier will simply be added to the race descriptions; that way you know exactly what you're getting when you choose your race.
  • TJ_HookerTJ_Hooker Member Posts: 2,438
    edited September 2013
    Just for the record, here is the actual table from the SKILLRAC.2DA

    PICK_POCKETS OPEN_LOCKS FIND_TRAPS MOVE_SILENTLY HIDE_IN_SHADOWS DETECT_ILLUSION SET_TRAPS
    HUMAN 15 10 5 10 5 0 0
    DWARF 15 20 20 10 5 5 10
    ELF 20 5 5 15 15 0 0
    GNOME 15 15 15 15 10 10 5
    HALF_ELF 25 10 5 10 10 0 0
    HALFLING 20 15 10 20 20 0 0
    HALFORC 15 10 5 10 5 0 0
    elminsterNordom
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