To play or not to play Icewind Dale

Baxyratty

So i'm getting further along in my latest run through of BGEE and am looking for something to hold me over until BG2 comes out. I have Icewind Dale, and i remember playing it as a kid and rage-quitting cause i got lost (didn't feel like reading the journal lol. Now that i'm older and have a greater attention span, is IWD worth going back to and beating while i wait for BG2EE?

Lord_Tansheron

IWD is great, but after playing a lot of BG the complete lack of banter or romance can be hard to get used to. IWD has gorgeous designs and a great and immersive story, though. It's a great game.

Zanian

I just started up an IWD run 3 days ago, after not having played it in like 5-6 years. I forgot how awesome the fights were. That, along with the amazing gear-selection, is something it did better than the BG series.

I remember getting really frustrated at how difficult it was, but this time I've been playing on Insane difficulty since the beginning, only having had to reload once. It's such a different, yet fun way to play a game like this.

So yeah, it's definitely worth it.

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Permidion_Stark

IWD looks great and sounds great. It is also amazingly boring.

Madhax

It's a much more combat-oriented game. While a challenging encounter in BG might be a single, powerful Lich, IWD will throw twenty or thirty dangerous melee troops at you at once regularly. It's a much more linear game, with fewer quests, much less dialogue, and no recruitable NPCs.

That isn't to say it's necessarily worse, just different. You get the unique opportunity to craft a full party yourself, which lets you experiment with classes that aren't represented well in BG. The pace of the game is great, with a solid difficulty curve and fantastic locations to explore and battle through.

IWD also has a challenge mode called Heart of Fury, which is great fun for experienced players. Enemies have drastically higher stats (and award comparably better experience), making even simple encounters against goblins a challenge. You can import an endgame party into HoF, or start fresh with level 1s.

If you're interested, this is my most recent IWD party (Started at level 1 in HoF mode):

Paladin -- Probably the best tank in IWD, since their natural Protection from Evil ability lasts until rest, cannot be dispelled, and stacks with a priest or mage's identical casting.
Ranger/Cleric -- Druid spells are much better in IWD than in BG, which makes a Ranger's spell progression nicely compliment a Cleric's. Unfortunately Dual-Wield isn't supported in IWD, but Rangers instead get a bonus APR when wielding a single weapon and no shield.
Fighter/Druid -- As above, druid spells are fantastic in this game. They have great AoE and crowd control options to compliment your arcane casters, and the IWD shapeshifts have sweet immunities that let them tank indefinitely against certain enemies.
Cleric/Mage -- Personal favorite combo, only represented by Aerie in the BG series. Great versatility in IWD, and since you can build it yourself, you can give them some elven chain and a heavy shield and make them quite durable as well.
Thief 7/8 -- Mage -- Thieves are weaksauce in this game. You max out on support abilities quickly, and due to the swarm nature of most fights, backstabbing is rarely a worthwhile pursuit. This is the main caster of the party.

starsky

IWD is pretty fun... but it can be quite boring after a while. BG is a game I go back to every 1/2 years and sink a large chunk of time into. IWD1/2 on the other hand I've only went back to them once (last year) after beating it when it came out.

Making a full party is fun but lack of banters/npcs that I care about seriously hurts the replayability for me.

I found that the difficulty is tough up front but gets much easier as you progress (aside from a few tricky fights). Fun to try it out but if you are looking for a deep, immersive experience I can't really recommend it imho.

Mathmick

Icewind Dale took all the really nice stuff about Baldur's Gate and threw it away. It's a linear story where you can use only prebuilt characters.

What they decided to focus on was the combat, and used the same mechanics as Baldur's Gate. Unfortunately, Baldur's Gate mechanics are horribly clunky and don't feel "right". It's basically what you would get if you take an arbitrary action game, merged it with an arbitrary real-time strategy game, and then made everything arbitrarily function in terms of a six-second rule.
Even then, combat encounters seem to have had little effort put into them, bar a few boss fights. There's one area I fondly remember where a lovely gentleman dead guy would appear every 2 metres to lecture you on etiquette or something, and every time throws 10-billion wights at you, which of course lags the game into complete slow-motion for some reason.

Of course, the environments look pretty and you do get the "epic quest" feel from the game. It's very linear and story-driven though, so if you do play I wouldn't recommend playing through more than once.

It's not extremely bad, but I wouldn't expect something close to Baldur's Gate standard.

the_spyder

My experience is that IWD is more of a dungeon romp than BG. While there is a story of sorts, it is more a loose excuse to string a bunch of dungeons together than anything like what you get out of BG. Still loads of fun (and i do recommend that the OP play) but just different on that front. Not to mention the lack of personality of the NPCs.

As an aside, i am very surprised that anyone could get lost in IWD. I remember it being pretty much, finish one dungeon and it points directly to the next one. Of course it has been a few years so....?

AstroBryGuy

I'm currently doing a through IWD with Kulyok's IWD NPC mod. Highly recommended if you want BG-style banters and interjections from NPCs. The NPCs have nice backstories connecting them to the plot. I'm enjoying it a lot.

http://www.pocketplane.net/mambo/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=174&Itemid=122

CutlassJack

IWD2 is my favorite. 3rd edition rules are especially nice.

And the soundtracks on both games are amazing.

Night_Watch

create your very own team of billy bad asses, go forth and kill everything that moves. after playing BG so much, having a game that keeps focus on combat and atmosphere (graphics, music, etc.) is very refreshing. in some ways i prefer IWD's story b/c it's not about one person and his/her friends on the one person's journey to or not to god hood, but a team of strangers having to work together to survive. i like to RP with IWD. also i definitely prefer Pale Justice over Carsomyr O.o

don't get me wrong i love a good story with well developed npcs as much as the next person, but it's nice to take a break from it all and hit up the lizard men punching bags with tired, grim faced, stranded adventurers trying to find a way out of that icy hell called the Spine of the World.

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

sarevok57

I just played heart of winter recently, and wowzers that is a short expansion ( well there is many areas) but from start to finish I bet I can beat the whole expansion in 3 hours or less, although it is kinda fun, the thing I like about icewind dale is making new team combos and seeing what items the game gives you to see how your characters turn out

mylegbig

If you like Infinity Engine combat, then definitely yes. Personally, I'm not a fan of dungeon crawls, so I never had the patience to finish either IWD game.

lunar

Get the Trials of the Luremaster, it adds an additional quest and nice dungeons/loot.

Overall IWD is fun if you enjoy exploring vast dungeons and surviving tactical battles. Locations are all gorgeous and memorable, a sharp contrast to bg's 'forests trees grass rock and more trees' scenery. Most magical treasures are randomised, and plenty, which adds to replay value. There is some place for roleplaying as well, depending on the character talking's class and abilities, many different answers and solutions can be found from commoner npcs in Kuldahar etc

EnterHaerDalis

Just beat Trials of the Luremaster and Heart of Winter. It's amazing but it's a long, long dungeon crawl

Still haven't completed the core IWD portion though, have a few more hours left

It's pretty beautiful how you have Planescape on the left which is basically a deeply written story with incredibly descriptive dialogue, Baldurs Gate in the middle, a seamless combo of storyline and gameplay, and Icewind Dale on the right, which still has a cool story but at it's core is the meat and potatoes of the 2e infinity engine

Thrasymachus

I'm playing IWD right now (I've only played it all the way through once before, though I've started it a few times over the years).

Pro: (1) it's beautiful to look at; (2) the music is great; (3) it has some interesting magic items (too many, really); (4) the mechanics are essentially the same as BG/BG2 (so they're familiar); (5) bards and druids are awesome; (6) there are many cool spells not in BG/BG2

Con: (1) it's very linear; (2) there is no 'core' PC (you create the entire party) and thus is less 'immersive' than BG/BG2; (3) there are no banters, etc. (and thus is less 'immersive'...); (4) the constant fights can begin to drag if you play for a long time

Overall, I think it's okay, at times quite fun, and thus worth one play-through. But it's no BG!

Messi

I'd say there is pretty simple test if you would enjoy IWD, ask yourself whether or not you liked Durlarg's Tower. IWD gameplay is very similar to that, and there is even place with almost the same story as DT in IWD...

Anyway I personally love IWD and think it's absolutely worth it. It has the best atmosphere of the IE games, and the maps are really beatiful. Also it's not nearly as hack'n'slashy as some might say if you read the ? texts, journals, talk to all NPCs, etc. there is plenty of story to be had as well.

Edit: Also if you want a party there is rather decent NPC mod. I usually get annoyed by the shitty writing most NPC mods have, but this is pretty well done.

http://www.pocketplane.net/mambo/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=174&Itemid=122

Tetraploid

I probably get more replay value out of IWD1/2 than BG1/2, actually. Every time I play I notice new things, I encounter new dialogue, I find new treasure, and of course I play with a different party. I think they are great games. As for the lack of joinable NPCs...in BG, without mods or the EE, do they really have that much to say anyway? Everyone mentions it as the major difference but really, after you've met them and recruited them they mostly stay pretty quiet apart from repeating set phrases when you click on them. I can live without that.

Messi

Almost forgot one other (very minor, but pretty cool!) reason to play IWD, there is a link to both PS:T and IWD in BG2. There are two merchants from whom you can buy weapons and armor inspired by those two games. If you haven't played the other games seeing Dakkon's Zerth Blade, Staff of Arundel, Vhailor's Helm, etc. won't really mean anything to you.

CoryNewb

Wouldn't be a bad choice. I'm just holding out for enhanced editions so they are less buggy.

Paladin

Icewind Dale is absolutely worth a go. I actually may have had more -fun- playing it than I have had playing Baldur's Gate. This is not to say that I necessarily prefer it. Let me explain. In Icewind Dale, you get to create an entire party. This requires a lot of coordination, planning, and most excitingly (for me) -- imagination. You need to inject some of your own story lines into the game, to breathe life into the characters. Why are they there? What is their motivation for agreeing to travel with Hrothgar? This is just a lot of fun. There is less "hand holding" in the story/imagination department. The game itself, however, is much more linear in terms of quest progression. I do prefer Baldur's Gate, just because I do like the story and the NPC interactions a great deal. But, I find that IWD scratches my creativity itch in a better way than Baldur's Gate does.

And if you needed additional reasons to play IWD, there is plenty of combat fun to be had. It is far more of a traditional D&D Hack 'n Slash. After playing through IWD on a reasonably challenging difficulty, you will find the Baldur's Gate games to be easy by comparison. It's like a crash course in Infinity Engine combat.

rdarken

IWD is pretty awesome, though I can never get very far in it (it always gives me an itch to just play BG again). IWD 2 is way too hard, though.

Aasimar069

Paladin said:

Icewind Dale is absolutely worth a go. I actually may have had more -fun- playing it than I have had playing Baldur's Gate. This is not to say that I necessarily prefer it. Let me explain. In Icewind Dale, you get to create an entire party. This requires a lot of coordination, planning, and most excitingly (for me) -- imagination. You need to inject some of your own story lines into the game, to breathe life into the characters. Why are they there? What is their motivation for agreeing to travel with Hrothgar? This is just a lot of fun. There is less "hand holding" in the story/imagination department. The game itself, however, is much more linear in terms of quest progression. I do prefer Baldur's Gate, just because I do like the story and the NPC interactions a great deal. But, I find that IWD scratches my creativity itch in a better way than Baldur's Gate does.

And if you needed additional reasons to play IWD, there is plenty of combat fun to be had. It is far more of a traditional D&D Hack 'n Slash. After playing through IWD on a reasonably challenging difficulty, you will find the Baldur's Gate games to be easy by comparison. It's like a crash course in Infinity Engine combat.

I would not say that. Since this game mainly focuses on combat, you'll want to max your useful stats and completely ignore the others.

My warriors / pally have completed the game with 18/18/18/7/6/18 (for the pally).
Mages have been using a 9/18/16/18/xx/xx stats

There isn't much of re-playability in this game. I have done it three times in 14 years and each move through the dungeons was a struggle (thousands of enemies to dispatch).

It often involves cheap tricks to put you in a dire mess (for instance shadows appearing anywhere in scripted events in the severed hand - Just throw a warrior in front so the script starts and bring him back to your party members which are next to a wall to prevent being attacked from behind). Or in IWD2 Hook Horrors are scripted to follow you even when your are invisible with your rogue-- but they can't hit you since you're sneaking).

However, musics are great (I really like the Xunomei level combat theme in the Dragon's Eye) and some backgrounds are pieces of art themselves (if you like ice of course - ice museum is great).

Overhaul game should do a poll to ask what should be the next EE games (if there is one after BG2:EE) because it's far from being that obvious IWD is a really great game.

James

There's also DavidW's Icewind dale in BG2 http://forums.gibberlings3.net/index.php?showforum=155

It's in beta but he says it should be pretty stable

Jarrakul

Icewind Dale is totally worth playing. It's a different experience, as many have said, but it's still pretty awesome. It has the most fun combat, the best visual design, and the best music of the Infinity Engine games. In my opinion, it also has the best story, but there isn't that much of it. Let me explain. Without giving too much away, I really like Icewind Dale's story. It's not really about your party, although clearly it's told from their point of view, and that can hurt immersion for a lot of people. Fair enough. But if you stop and pay attention to the various important NPCs, especially the villains, you get to see that it's their story and there's some real meat there. The thing is... it's made so you can ignore the story entirely, which means it doesn't really take a front-row seat. You really have to pay attention and think about it a bit before it becomes interesting. If you just run around grabbing items and killing monsters, only using the dialog to tell you where to go next, you won't get anything out of the story. And that's mostly fine. I like that you have that option. But it is kind of sad at times, because there's so much depth there if you pay attention.

Note that I still prefer BG2 to IWD. Because, while IWD has a more fundamentally interesting story, BG2 makes better use of its story and characters, and has a lot of really good side material. So it's not so clear cut, in the end.

Calmar

I'll quote myself on this topic! :P

Calmar said:

Technically, the Icewind Dale is is more "epic" (in the popular meaning of the word) than the BG series. Whereas you're just some guy whos out adventuring and pursuing his own personal goals for most of BG 1+2, you fight against scheming demonic forces and an attacking army of monsters in IWD 1 and 2, respectively.

Baldur's Gate is definitely better at giving you much freedom to roam the world with its multitudes of side quests, but the actual core plots are quite minimalistic. Icewind Dale, on the other hand, does not give you much freedom for personal mini-quests and exploration, but its story is deep and complex.

To me, Icewind Dale is the best game when it comes to atmosphere and immersiveness. I think its box and cut scenes resemble a book for a reason, because the game *is* very much like an interactive book.

Besides, avoiding combat in BG is possible, but, to be honest, it pretty much always means to miss out valuable treasure. Icewind Dale is straightforward: You are faced with monstrous enemies and the course of events makes fighting them the most reasonable course of action.

ogreb

Sometimes I like the quiet compared to BG 2 party banter/ interaction.
I mean come on ! ...How many times have you heard it already ? Skipped through it ? Flinched every time the lame sad music popped up when a certain wingless elf started to whine ? Run their Fed X quests ?

Having a good imagination I make up back stories for all my NPCs in IWD and stick by them.

I like ( most ) of the NPC interaction in BG 2, but ,sometimes, it's nice to hang out with a group that keeps their yaps shut and just concentrates on killing bad guys instead.

It's a linear , thinly plotted surface dungeon crawler with great backgrounds and wonderful music.

And I liked it.