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Why I am furious:

darkmobsondarkmobson Member Posts: 28
in Archive (General Discussion)
Hi everyone!

First of all, I am completely aware that everything I am about to say is said before in different posts but writing to a forum followed by developpers of the game is the good and the only way to express my feelings about BGEE and the developpers.

I waited for the game impatiently after the first announcement. I preordered the game for PC and bought myself an iPad to be able to play my alltime favorite on the go.

Then the launch is delayed. It's ok. It's ok because I prefer a good gameplay experience without issues. Then the game is released, I installed it and began my first gameplay immediately. And the first time I realised that the game is a disaster is when I saw the typos even in tooltips of the interface. If you played the game from the date it was launched I don't need to remind you many many other bugs we all encountered.
Finally after the long delays, iOS version of the game is launched. I paid for it because I was a fool to think that I could be able to play my favorite game whereever I want. I even accepted the fact that it shares the same bugs with PC versions. BUT NO. It has a unique bug THAT ISN'T FIXED EVEN TODAY. When you cast AoE spells, the framerate drops down and the game becomes impossible to play. And when asked, the developpers said something like they have to rewrite some blahblah to fix that issue. I can't believe the un-professionalism behind the fact that the developpers launched a game with this serious bug. The other option is they didn't even try to cast a AoE spell before they released the game on iOS. I don't know which one is worst.

I don't even want to talk about stopping the sales for a period of time or promised Android version which is never even made the surface. These are other examples of unprofessionalism.

Now nearly a year has passed over the launch and we are still waiting for a patch that will fix the issues. By the way Trent Oster, on his twitter account, has said that the patch comes in midseptember and we are in 23 september; still no word from the patch or its beta (this is another ridiculous subject I won't enter).

I don't find you (the developers) honest. I think you pretend to be honest and communicative by writing on the forum, giving some default answers to the questions, saying you are sorry too about the issues. No, I don't think you are. Making mistakes is totally ok, but not fullfilling even the lowest expectations of the people who pays you is not honest.

Finally, i know that there will be some arguments to prove me wrong from other BG lovers on this forum. If I am wrong on some points I will gladly accept it. But before contradicting just think for a moment if you are really satisfied from this whole BGEE process and then I will gladly read your arguments against my thoughts.
I am not a native speaker, sorry for any language related mistakes. Thanks for reading.
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Comments

  • agentmulderagentmulder Member Posts: 114
    I think you could ask for a refund, if the game is really buggy to you.
  • CoM_SolaufeinCoM_Solaufein Member Posts: 2,607
    :(
  • darkmobsondarkmobson Member Posts: 28
    Linkamus said:

    I don't understand the anger. Being fans of the genre and the game, we should be rooting for success, and support them through any mistakes they may happen to make along the way. Getting pissed at people trying to revitalize this genre is only going to guarantee you RPGs like Dragon Age 2 to be released in the future.

    There has been too many mistakes making it impossible to call them 'mistakes' anymore. It is not a charity. They don't revitalize the game only for the love of BG or RPG. People pay for this game. And its price is not a symbolic one. I am totally okay to pay its price if only I had a good gameplay experience.
  • darkmobsondarkmobson Member Posts: 28
    shawne said:

    To correct a few minor inaccuracies:

    1. Trent Oster wasn't the one who made the "mid-September" estimate, that was Philip Daigle. (Of course, Trent Oster did originally claim the renderer would be out in May, so... yeah.)

    Sorry for the wrong information.
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    @Linkamus: DA2's development was hampered by factors that were not at work here (and even with those factors, what that game lacks in design it more than makes up for in its story and characters, but that's a discussion for another time).

    BG:EE faced an uphill battle from the start because Beamdog was limited in how much they could actually do. Contractual restrictions meant they couldn't actually do anything with existing content - and this game came out in 1998, there's a lot that could have been done in the content department - so really, what BG:EE and BG2:EE have to offer are two things: technical improvements and new content.

    Now, the new content is understandably limited, because it wouldn't do for three (well, four) characters to have tons of dialogue and quests while everyone else stood around like clay golems. That's fine, we'll just have to trust that things get more expansive in BG2:EE.

    But technical improvements are a tricky thing to hinge an entire project on. For one thing, not everyone is technically-minded enough to appreciate the details - sure, I like that there's no loading screen anymore, but all this talk about new file names? No comprendo.

    For another thing, the game still has bugs. Lots of them. So it does create a sort of "You Had One Job" feeling.
  • AendaeronBluescaleAendaeronBluescale Member Posts: 335
    At least Overhaul/Beamdog is working to fix issues. Try to get that from EA (unless it cuts into their profits) or even Atari...
  • Night_WatchNight_Watch Member Posts: 514
    it's not like they're trying to pull the wool over our eyes. i counsel patience. in the meantime the BG community is good at working around problems (ie: Mods) There are plenty of other things to do while we wait.

    With that said this sort of constructive criticism is good for keeping them on their toes.

    I'm happy with the way things turned out for BG:EE. but then again, my standards aren't as high as some others (i've never been one for high expectations about anything =p) and i don't play that much anymore. if i do it's for nostalgic reasons/check out new content. i'm not familiar w/ all the setbacks/controversies surrounding the game so i don't make much comment on them. i figure they'll sort themselves out and if they don't people will complain and make inquiries until some action is taken. it's just the natural order of things =)
  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,704
    edited September 2013
    I will not manifest about all the issues, neither i whole agree with @darkmobson in all the aspects specially towards the devs being in bad faith (not at all at least and i will specify this), but what i have to say, is that i agree with his complains. I don't have portable versions of BG, but if BG:EE is still umplayable there and they announce BG2:EE, this kinda of make the devs appear somehow not interested in the problems of their software.

    What i believe to be happening is an, how can i put this, an incapacity of the devs with working the engine, probally in reason of resources, investment and equipment. I can be wrong and this can be many things, including bad faith, still if i have to guess i would say it's an incapacity.

    The real issue here, is that Beamdog is being made a scapegoat. They're innocent? No, not that, they're a company hired by another company (in unknow contractual terms) to work with a minimum level of the copyrights of Baldur's Gate. Still, if i'm right and ATARI is pulling the strings, then the devs doesn't choose the focus of their work, the priorities comes from the employer. Focus in make BG2: EE, focus in make the BG:EE patch, in develop the android versions, in solve the AoE issues in portable versions... if i'm right it's all being decided by ATARI.

    The real problem with Beamdog behavior is the kind of contract signed, cos they simply doesn't transfer the complains to the rightful company that deserve them. As i said before, i believe that this is what is happening, but i have only small induces with all the issue of ATARI bankruptcy that shed a bit of light in this.



    Hide information about the chain of consumption, vital info about the quality of the product and not fullfil a published promise bound to the product sale, from where i come, is an unlawful act and while i don't expect to match the legislation of USA or CAN, where ATARI and Beamdog respectively are registered (if i'm not wrong), i believe some similarities to exist between our legislations. Unless i'm pretty mistaken even in USA and CAN contracts based on unlawful acts are devoided of effectiveness.

    So, in this point, if all the circumstances are as i'm seeing, i believe Beamdog to be in bad faith, bad faith with their individual customers with the holding on the information of all the participants of the chain of consumption. They take the complain hits, do not transfer it to ATARI, who deserve and can solve the issue, neither does they point who is the real responsible for the problems.

    They do this cos right or wrong ATARI is Beamdog patronage atm, therefore their source of income. So this, and only in this point if my suspictions are solid based, i agree that Beamdog is wrong and it's harming it's customers. With lack of information.


    agentmulder said:

    I think you could ask for a refund, if the game is really buggy to you.

    This i see as an internet bully act, to say to unsatisfied people to leave if they're not happy with the actual terms of the game isn't only stupid, it's a bully act that tend to expel clients and future customers of other products of the company. The OP isn't agressive, a bit bold maybe, but then it's the guy right to speak his mind.

    So @Dee, i ask your presence here to evaluate the quoted post and also my reply (i don't know if stupid in this context is being rude, as i really meant the core of the semantic in the stupid word here, i don't intent to make an offense).

    Obs: reading the following posts of this same quoted guy, his behavior doesn't appear to be a flamable one, so i maybe made an misconception with his post, still i let the text here for evaluation. By the way my own post in it's final part can be labeled maybe as stupid also, as maybe i didn't had the capacity to understand the real statement of @agentmulder.
  • agentmulderagentmulder Member Posts: 114
    edited September 2013
    This i see as an internet bully act, to say to unsatisfied people to leave if they're not happy with the actual terms of the game isn't only stupid, it's a bully act that tend to expel clients and future customers of other products of the company. The OP isn't agressive, a bit bold maybe, but then it's the guy right to speak his mind.

    Ask for a refund if you are really not satisfied with the product it's not stupid. I didn't say to him to "GTFO" if he is not satisfied, just advised a return if he lost his faith on the product.

    "Now nearly a year has passed over the launch and we are still waiting for a patch that will fix the issues. "

    If I was having problems for a entire year, I would require my money back. Fortunately to me, that was not the case. I had a problem on day one, was fixed after I contacted support (the guy was fast and precise, really good service). Imagine months of unplayable lag while playing on IOS. It's not ok.
  • ajwzajwz Member Posts: 4,122
    I don't think this is unreasonable, the patch delays are very frustrating.
  • darkmobsondarkmobson Member Posts: 28
    Dee said:

    If someone's not happy with the game, they can contact me through support and we'll try to work out a solution. We definitely don't want to encourage people to ask for refunds, and I will agree that telling someone to leave if they don't like the game is a bit more...aggressive isn't the right word, but it definitely dismisses a perspective that is valuable.

    We know we've made mistakes, and we're striving to remedy them. Part of the wait for this patch is coming from a reorganization of some of our internal processes, but for the most part we're just trying to make sure that this patch fixes everything we've set out to fix, implements everything we've set out to implement, and doesn't break anything in the process. We're almost there; just be patient a little while longer.

    Dear Dee,

    Of course everyone who are not happy with the game have the right to ask for a refund but I am not here to ask for a refund. You (and your colleagues) can freely spend my money. I don't care about the amount I paid for a game I love. What I am furious about is the approach of the developer team, mistakes that is made over and over again. I have no faith in team. Last year I was totally excited about the BGEE, I was talking to my gf about the game and about your project all daylong, I preordered the game the first moment I was able. Now with BG2EE, I am just emotionless. I don't even care if it is free. And I think that these feelings of mine as a customer must be saddening for you and your team.
  • LateralusLateralus Member Posts: 903
    That's the thing about mass marketing and zingy advertising. Those buzzes wear off and people want more and more hype. When the hype stops, they get annoyed.

    If I were a part of the development team I would treat the fans like mushrooms, feed them poop and keep them in the dark. So be thankful that you got these guys and not guys like me.
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    They really are. And that's part of the reason for the reorganization that we've done internally. We're not happy with how the game was released either (and you can read Phil's post in the older News threads); that's why we've been putting in some extra hours to make this patch as polished as it can be.

    On another, somewhat unrelated note, expect a PM from me shortly. :)
  • AendaeronBluescaleAendaeronBluescale Member Posts: 335
    shawne said:



    Sure, EA is Satan, everyone knows that - but why hold Beamdog to the lowest possible standard?

    This was not my intention. Forgive me, please.
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    Dee said:

    We know we've made mistakes, and we're striving to remedy them. Part of the wait for this patch is coming from a reorganization of some of our internal processes, but for the most part we're just trying to make sure that this patch fixes everything we've set out to fix, implements everything we've set out to implement, and doesn't break anything in the process. We're almost there; just be patient a little while longer.

    Not to be petty, but this is pretty much how misunderstandings begin.

    You're treating the start of the open beta as if it's the actual release of the patch. In reality, you'll need to give the testers enough time to thoroughly kick the wheels - that could be two weeks or six months, depending on what happens during the test. So I don't think we're "almost there" just yet.

    @darkmobson: The best advice I can give you is to do what I do - wait and see. There's been a lot of talk on the part of the devs as to lessons being learned and mistakes being corrected, but so far, it's just that: talk. Let BG2:EE launch and see how it goes for the first month or so, then you can make an informed decision as to whether Beamdog merits another chance. Pre-ordering is out of the question if you don't have faith in the developers to deliver, but I'll think you'll find this forum can provide a (mostly) reliable baseline to evaluate the product once it's out.
  • DexterDexter Member Posts: 253
    I obviously agree with all post regarding issues, patch delays, etc. I don't have portable versions of the game but complains about that iPad thing with AoE spells are certainly understanable. PC version has bugs too. Ok, the game is playable, but almost a year after release it should be better.
    However I tell myself to be patient, and I think I'm being so patient with beamdog because of the expectations I have in EE series: a modernized game with better performance, new features for modders to work with, multiplatform and multiplayer-friendly. Then the community of modders will do what they did for original BG and maybe more. Beamdog is half way there, if they need more time it's ok to me.
    I just hope they don't let us down.
  • ShinShin Member Posts: 2,345
    darkmobson said:

    Last year I was totally excited about the BGEE, I was talking to my gf about the game and about your project all daylong, I preordered the game the first moment I was able. Now with BG2EE, I am just emotionless. I don't even care if it is free. And I think that these feelings of mine as a customer must be saddening for you and your team.

    That is quite saddening even for me as a fellow fan.

  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,704
    elminster said:

    Lateralus said:

    That's the thing about mass marketing and zingy advertising. Those buzzes wear off and people want more and more hype. When the hype stops, they get annoyed.

    If I were a part of the development team I would treat the fans like mushrooms, feed them poop and keep them in the dark. So be thankful that you got these guys and not guys like me.

    I wouldn't treat the fans like mushrooms. They may turn out to be Myconids!
    Unless he have in mind Shitakes, i love shitake so i don't mind if he use these analogies to shitakes :)!
  • meaglothmeagloth Member Posts: 3,806
    edited September 2013
    I have the iPad version and the only real bug is the cloudkill/entangle type spells slow down the game by about half. There are other noticeable bugs, but the iPad version exceeded my expectation SPECTACULARLY. When I first saw the game on the App Store, I was worried that the controls designed for a mouse would not work, and the Idea of extra content worried me. But I soon found that this was not some cheap remake of a "retro" game for losers who want to impress their friends, but real enhanced edition for people who really liked the game and what's on PC and Mac as well. I am VERY happy with the iPad version, though I understand people's frustration with the way things are.

    Whoa, that was longer that I thought is would be.
  • O_BruceO_Bruce Member Posts: 2,790
    Hipster time! Right now I'll say this: I completely understand why OP is angry, as I unfortunately clearly recall how absolutely livid I was at release day. Actually, OP had more luck than I had. At least he/she managed to launch this game. I had to wait like for 3rd or 4th patch before I could play it. And why I was so angry? Mostly because I'm a fan.

    For a pretty large period of time I've thought that devs either doesn't know what they are doing or just don't care at all, but some people on this forum proved me wrong, and I am grateful for that. It's not like developers don't want or are uttery unable to make BG:EE great. It's actually lack of resources. Because of that, they need time. No one is to question their dedication or passion.

    I firmly believe, as a fan, that Overhaul, in time, can make BH:EE really awesome and I'll wait patiently for The Big Patch, even in spite of my usual impatience. Even, if because of it I'll have a break in playing. But that's not the only game I stopped playing because I wait for something awesome to come. My current avatar is the clue.

    And when the patch comes, I'll enjoy awesomeness again. And after full support for my native language will be providen, I'll enjoy it even more. I'll just have to wait - surely, it will be worth it.

    So, you're angry. You stated what made you angry, you stated what's wrong. And you know what? It's totally good! Feedback always is welcomed, no matter positive or negative. By giving a feedback you're letting know the devs how do you feel and what they need to do. And that's great.
  • rdarkenrdarken Member Posts: 660
    I think it's silly that people are mad at Overhaul about the lack of patches. Be mad at Atari who held them up for three months....
  • ManBearPigManBearPig Member Posts: 34
    shawne said:



    All that said, I agree with the general sentiment that BG:EE's post-release development has been poorly handled. The latest example: folding the new renderer into the patch was a mistake, as it has allowed a large number of bugs (700 at last report, which is almost twice as many as BG:EE originally purported to solve in the original) to remain in the game for the sake of a graphics upgrade that has apparently been in the works since March.

    This. I was fortunate in that the game ran pretty well for me. I am excited for the new renderer but I really just want to play the new kits bug free. There are a number of fixes I'm very excited for... the shadow dancer fix, the DD fix and the corresponding cone spell fixes, and the change in kit for the new monk npc. I think its a shame that all the other fixes are being held up while we wait for the new renderer. At this point its a bit silly that the beta isn't out yet.

  • TetraploidTetraploid Member Posts: 252
    I guess I was a bit disappointed with the BG:EE release. I was expecting something I could simply install and play without having to fiddle with settings and mods to make a 15 year old game play on a 1.5 year old laptop. As it is I've have to work around Intel graphics problems and wait for patches to fix things that weren't an issue with the original game. It wasn't as polished as I had expected, no doubt about that.

    That said, I bear the developers no ill will. As long as they are aware of the problems and working to fix them, that's all I ask. I'd rather people made big mistakes and worked to fix them than made small mistakes and then gave the middle finger to anyone who tried to complain.
This discussion has been closed.

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