(1) Life's full of unforseeable problems. When you have a team of 100 solving them as you go, deadlines are often well kept. But even with companies of this size, these obstacles can become too complex and require deadlines to be pushed back. (Blizzard just delayed Titan for a few years because they needed to redo the engine). It happens.
(2) It's easy to see problems everywhere you go, and even easier to just spend your life complaining about them for the sake of compaining. But nobody gains anything from your input when you state the problem without proposing some sort of solution to it. When you propose a solution that's actually feasible, your input becomes valuable.
(3) Beamdog is working on a code that's very, very old. The developers look at the code and know full well how things SHOULD behave, but adapting old code to work in such a way can be nigh impossible without years of rework and restructuring. Working in a software development teaches you a lot. Even the most miniscule change can require a vast overhaul to the underlying systems behind it.
(4) People want to like what they do. Everyone thrives to be respected in their workplace and to get regocnition over the small victories they have. If the overwhelming majority of feedback is negative, it doesn't really "WHIP UP THE MONKEYS TO DO BETTER!!!", but rather actually just drain the motivation and passion. And at least, has the developers focus on your hurt feelings and defending themselves rather than working on what they are supposed to work on.
I've spent over a decade wishing BG+BG2 could somehow be brought back to life with no expectation of it ever happening. Beamdog made this wish happen, no-one else cared enough to.
Despite the flaws of the release Beamdog have bought a whole lot of goodwill from me. I'm more than happy to wait a bit longer (although the sooner real multiplayer and the android version are released the happier I'll be )
Ya know when people resort to hyperbolic and ridiculous statements like this... "I am FURIOUS! Because THIS thing in THIS Video Game I have Investment is not as Good as i'd hoped! It's the most Terrible Thing Ever! The world has ended!" It makes me want to facepalm. Or slap an idiot.
Is it really that difficult to explain yourself, and your viewpoint in a reasonable way? Does it always have to devolve into near inexplicable frothing nerdrage?
I get it sometimes rage is necessary, even warranted. Mass Effect 3 immediately leaps to mind. But dude it's a game. And Overhaul have done and are doing their best (unlike Bioware with ME3).
The contract restrictions limiting what they can do with the game is not their fault. The fact Atari went bankrupt and they couldn't work on BGEE or release anything is not their fault. The fact that a part (or most) of their team has moved onto BG2EE leaving less to work on BGEE probably isn't their fault either.
The patching issue? Your anger is unwarranted because for about 4 months there they couldn't work on it because Atari was going down the tubes. It's due out very soon. Keep in mind also there will be a delay for it on iPad because it needs to go via Apple for certification (I think?) as well.
The honesty thing? Again your anger is unwarranted, and you are being kind of rude. Just because things get changed doesn't mean that they were lying dude. I would much rather they said "okay patch incoming next week." and then "sorry guys unexpected problem with the patch. itll be delayed for a bit." rather than having developers afraid to come onto the forums and engage with the fans like on the BSN. I mean look at poor Jennifer Hepler, she made one off the cuff comment about how she isn't a massive gamer and much prefers a good story (being a writer this isnt surprising) and the so called "fans" launched a crusade against her attacking her relentlessly to the point that she left the industry completely. It was fricking foul. And that's just the kind of thing that your post stinks of.
Misplaced anger due to... dare i say it? Your huge entitlement complex.
Ya know what, if you had a specific issue that still hadn't been addressed, and you personally had brought it up on numerous occasions and NOTHING had been done then yeah I could get your anger (like myself when I typo/spell-checked and grammar fixed dozens of Events in the Kaiserreich mod for Heart's of Iron 2/Darkest Hour and posted my fixes in the thread for the mod 6 or 7 times over the course of 3 years and those typos, spelling errors, and grammar mistakes are still present in those events - "Mexico has selected 'Mexico dont accept no compromission!' in 'A german prince wants to visit Mexico'" is an example). But I don't get the impression that you have done that at all, nor are you taking into account the circumstances of the development of BGEE (or you are and just think that the Devs are lying about everything, in which case paranoid much?).
You need to calm down dude.
Here's some advice.
Next time something pisses you off, type out your post in a word document first. The go away have a cup of tea or something. Come back ten minutes later and reread the post and ask yourself if it sounds reasonable. If it doesn't then rewrite it. If it does then go ahead and post it. That way you at least know you are doing what you can to contribute constructively instead of just impotently nerdraging.
I am going way off topic and have nothing to contribute to this thread, but I always picture Sweet Dee from It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia, holding a wombat.
If you ever get 'furious' over a game, you probably need to chill out. Anything over 'mildly annoyed' is generally unwarrented.
I mean, if you get 'furious' over this, what happens to you when you find out somebody broke into your house and stole your TV? Do you get 'furious-er'?
Several of the complaints are completely valid and the team has acknowledged this and have said they are working on improving themselves. Can't ask for more than that.
I've spent over a decade wishing BG+BG2 could somehow be brought back to life with no expectation of it ever happening. Beamdog made this wish happen, no-one else cared enough to.
Yeah, me too!! I never thought it would come back, either haha
Well @fitscotgaymer .. you know, you don't have to caricature THAT way the OP post... he never said things like that, in THAT way too.. YOUR caricature IS ridiculous too.. (MAJ pun intended, no need to focus on that ^).
The rest of this post has been "spoilered". Read at your own risk, but do not respond. --Dee
Now.. myself i was totally not really excited about BG1ee, to be true; i heard about it almost by accident, almost at the last moment before the (last) pre-order period end.. and just subscribed by pure curiosity and, yes, some real good surprise/pleasure too to see some people DID care always for that game after all those years!.. that i maybe will have more time to rediscover it now (the details in the story i certainly missed initially, etc).. and things i totally forgot long time ago! Moreover, when the release came, i had many other things to do (and had not really the time to play it immediately..'seriously'), so i was not so 'shocked' (or 'infuriated'^^) by the very first results.. suspicions just came, though, when i began to simply quickly create a new test-char (the class i planned to play later..with quick console tips.. -him to lv10, and began to test his different skills to see if all was quickly ok.. then i immediately realized the defensive spins were totally f*cked up, and a few different little things.. THEN i began to wonder a little too lol..especially in a game like that where the rules and its mechanism DETAILS are so important from start (and for the very pleasure of that kind of games too..usually^^) !.. : i had nothing against the dev/management team etc (great idea to begin with!, etc^).. but seriously began to doubt what the f*ck the so called 'beta-testers' did f*cking do in their 'testing" of the game.. if they not even saw/noticed so obvious game mechanisms ultra basics problems as i could after just well.. 10 mins : they just needed to create and actually PLAY characters and immediately spot many of the most obvious gameplay 'little troubles' here & there.. and simply/quickly indicate the things to the dev team.. at least that is my logical way to figure how a dev team work, thx to the work of the beta testers too.. normally. ^^ Now, when i actually wanted to play to the game (very late 2012/beginning of 2013, no hurries^)...i had the joy to see major things had always not been fixed..and.. more annoying for me, many dealing with my char class so..'unplayable' as is for me (aka some major specs not usuable as basics).. though have been possible, but well... now, i was/am lucky, i am not on android/iOS/etc, and not even have the intel bug/etc..would have been an even more..violent 'no way' then lol. ).. and finally, after the v2014 i could play and DID/DO (all in all) enjoy it now (as i am now finishing the whole thing -and had some real pleasure, honnestly!- at last!)... but i sure can understand people that would have wished to play with some of the advertized new kits (here again..what the f*ck the 'beta testers' did again here.. did they really PLAY the new f*cking kits, apart talking, talking (how cool the sex of the angels could/should be etc^), blas..?!..)...or even the ones that wished to simply play on androids/ipads systems as advertized initially (myself, btw, i would be really interested on one of those new 13'' android tabs that are beginning to come.. that to say i am not also totally uninterested by that too..^)... but, all in all, i could play on the PC for now, so all in all, the experience was/is now correct/ok for me.. i won't really complain bitterly ^); i could play as intended (patch v2014 was perfectly all in all ok for my char class..like v2012-2013 were too i think anyway..but had some others big things not fixed yet too^), rediscover the story details, NPCs, new ones too, etc..hurray! ^^ (damn, what a luck) )))... so, not my primary concern too now.. though i CAN clearly understand the irritations..
So, yeah.. back to the main basics for me here; what the f*ck the 'beta testers' mainly did (or are always doing..) too HERE?.. that is 'my' subject of wonder too here..mainly that ^^ and i began to be really (relatively too of course, of course..^^) a little.. puzzled... when i began to (actually) read (some parts) of that forum (and some of the heavy obsessed league posters!..with their favorites themas simply becoming more&more obvious..and not just the 'game mechanisms', nor respect to the 'original universe' lol..^^) ..and began to notice that many of the f*cking 'beta testers' (and/or their fans/followers^..) seemed in many cases more interested in talking in thread about new (gays, lesbians, etc) romances, gender topics, some even talking about how they contacted the poor (genius!) guy that created the Forgotten Realm universe (that's it?^) and dared to question/pressure him on his views on the gender/feminism/etc problems in his views etc !! *there* i began to notice smthg was f*cked up too in the behaviour of some 'beta testers' (you notice that, for now, i just put that on the back of the beta testers'..i am aware that it is a mainstream trend anyway in many other games/'fiction works' nowadays..so, not just 'beta testers'.. but let's be.. mild&moderate ^) .. and began to question THEIR primary motivations too 'lol'.. now, that is my personal little view on the 'topic'... no need to take it seriously..but i noticed it, yeah.. too. ^^
Now...now that i had actually play to BG1ee (so, hours to be reused to the universe, the atmosphere, lore/mythology inside, mechanisms rules, etc..^)... i AM ironically much more excited about the release of bg2ee than i was about bg1ee.. yes! that is possible too it seems... *)) But again, i am wondering that time how the 'beta testers' talking so well in those forums, and so prompt to say to others to just 'f*ck off' (with funny pics or not..)... how those ones actually dealt with the possible new bugs in bg2ee too so.. i really hope they DID their 'job' (even for 'free' out of just 'only passion'?!..^^) too in actually tracking the bugs BEFORE the real players (lol), BEFORE pushing some new activits theories about genders, romances to have, new way the new char should behave in those ways (according to THEIR -what should be- now PC liking apparently^), etc etc.. ^
So, well.. waiting for bg2ee with np as for me too here!
PS: and i do the little effort to post a comment here too.. for the smart little a**es that would like to tell me it can't be understood, blas etc.. i just want to tell them too that: middle finger too f*cking m*rons lol (just humour too..remember!^^) , if you want to play to that little game too^^.. and btw, when you remove the middle finger, like the charming pic above, that can get a totally different meaning (if you have a little culture in those little fields^) ... 2 horns.. not even needed to withdraw the middle finger..maybe more suited for some too here (and what they want to push too apparently).. *// actually, that can work in both ways you know.. *)) (and yet, i don't say that for the team real guys behind .. i can really appreciate the(ir) real efforts done to re-release that saga (and even thank them..yes, yes..not in a vital hurry nor even 'angry' too here^^..though really interested always..and i always can value/appreciate passion/dedication when i can see some real ones)..^^).. that saga IS epic and really interesting as far as videogames (sub)culture goes (and not only!), that is 100% sure too..if only just to have to see what the game mainstream market became now, ultra violence, blood, and blowing heads everywhere (AND your f*cking -&next step=genderless indeed^- romances more and more pregnant and now apparently required too, as a coincidence too.. ^^ ) , to be simply genuisly interested in revisiting an 'old' classic, when that trend was just beginning (women char exactly same stats as men ones, totally reversible, etc was all normal already lol..but was only the beginning and obvious required first step to see!..).. and yes, the quality of the initial story (the infancy of the hero, etc..), descriptions of the original NPC and relations with them/etc.. all that is already totally different from what we can have nowadays too now..with all the perfectly legit (now) romances and all violence free contents and such..^^ just others that are beginning to bore me too with those kind of 'reflexes'..) ).
And hello to your little homes all.. just saying too .. just for the hell of it too.. after all, a forum like that is also to share even the unwished feelings of the actual customers and/or potential future ones too.. ^^ *))
PS2: yeah, i could have opened a word doc and think 36h before posting that too, but i did not.. go wonder too)..that's the fun of it too i suppose (if fun there must be as i think on a place like that too; free speeches only out of 'passion', yes, sure!*))^^), hu..that you want it or not)) .. ^)) joking, just joking too... if there were no syntax/errors/approximations/(by definition) obvious possible things 'behind the scene' unknown by the common basic all the same marketed (and present!) customers when simply writing their reactions..left.. where would be the fun too (in many ways..)?^ ..and i guessed that was the whole philosophy of some of the people here regarding the game releases anyway, hehe..so why to reproach that to the people posting too now (aka showing their everlasting interest all the same..!) -beeing perfectly fair^) ?))... yeah, we can rush posts too sometimes, what the f*ck (boring you too that?!)?!.. *// *)) joking, just joking always.. *))
Second thought: to open Word/Office could be useful sometimes.. agreed. *)) but who cares anyways. lol to the happy few.. the others.. i don't care too anyway^)
a (too) verbose post for a (out of time/delightful) verbose game.. bah *))
&friendly yours too - no hard/bad feelings at all too here... anyway.. end*)
@fitscotgaymer, unlike many people that come here to rage flame their unsatisfaction, the OP is pretty reasonable and @darkmobson really put it with coherence there. I don't think he deserve your reply, but then, it's your mind, i just think "slap the idiot" was a bit too much for the kind of OP we have here.
@Drugar i believe that isn't the game that make the guy feel furious, but the deal, the business, the brought of an product that didn't reach his expectations. And it's pretty reasonable to people get furious with deals that doesn't please them.
@sunset00, are you tring to kill me with an overdose of words? Cos you spoiled text (thx @Dee) could feed an african country for years !
@fitscotgaymer, unlike many people that come here to rage flame their unsatisfaction, the OP is pretty reasonable and @darkmobson really put it with coherence there. I don't think he deserve your reply, but then, it's your mind, i just think "slap the idiot" was a bit too much for the kind of OP we have here.
normally i do not respond to the comments like the one of @fitscotgaymer , not in a forum and not in real life. but thanks for responding in my place.
@kamuizin lol, no, not even trying yet to assassinate people that way here hehe.. though a good image ('the night club +2, stun 25%' ..? *// ) ^))) Your very first post in that thread was not bad either in that genre though.. and/but i read it with interest too!..like others).. (and yeah, maybe simply better to not just overreact too on anyway legitimate (& all in all calmly exposed/presented) op rants like that - and sure no need to middle fingers and funny things like that in replies too.. but was not my case at all, i'm clean about that 100%..i think i overreacted on the overreactions..just a bit too then..not really needed too..&no need more, agreed)^/ ). &cheers)
@kamuizin I never really got what people have against you on these forums. Now I do.
You absolutely cherry picked ONE phrase out of my post, ignored the rest of it, and replied only to that one phrase. And you replied to it wrong.
I said "slap AN idiot" not THE idiot. The Idiot implies I was referring to the OP as an Idiot. Which I wasn't. Slap AN idiot is an expression of frustration regarding the nearly mindless and ridiculous anti BGEE/BG2EE, and Overhaul rage that gets spewed regularily on these forums. Perhaps it was a little more hostile than I ought to have been but honestly it doesn't affect my overall point.
At no point did I attack the OPs character. I merely pointed out that he could have expressed himself better, in a way that came off less frothingly nerdrage-y and more reasonable. I also addressed his actual points (the two points he gave) about why he feels "furious" and I fundamentally disagree with both because I feel like he isn't taking into account context and circumstance.
He is also outright calling the Developers liars. Which is rude and unwarranted.
Notice that one of the Devs is here, and I wasn't pulled up for violating or nearly violating the rules. Probably because @Dee read my entire post and judged the whole thing in its entirety instead of cherry picking one phrase from the 3rd line.
In essence my post was a plea for level headness and reasonable discussion. If you have a problem with that well... What can I say?
I would address you as I want to believe that you are trying to engage me and my points in a reasonable way, and express your own dissatisfaction with BGEE. Which is fine you can dislike the game all you please if you want to. I just want people to dislike it for legitimate reasons, not for things that are out of anyone's control. As long as the dislike is articulated in a reasonable way I welcome dissent from my own viewpoint.
Sadly I can not actually respond to you for two reasons. Firstly @Dee has basically forbidden it. lol. And secondly I don't really understand it because its a really poorly punctuated wall-o-text mess that is really really hard to read. I don't mean that as an insult by the way, just as a statement of fact. I find it difficult to comprehend what you are saying due to the formatting of your post. Another very good reason to type up in a word doc (and use spell checker!) prior to posting.
I am not saying that people don't post in anger or upset when they really ought not to. I get that it happens sometimes. I am merely suggesting that its probably better not to; or when you know you are upset to back away to calm down before responding. If you can.
Also I caricatured his post in the way I did because that was in essence what he was saying (I realise the irony in using hyperbole to criticise his hyperbole). He was raging about things that were out of the control of the developers (the contractual obligations preventing massively significant changes, and Atari going down the tubes forcing Overhaul to delay any work on BGEE/BG2EE for 4 to 5 months) and was basically calling them liars in order to justify his own contextless, unreasonable, and unfair viewpoint.
My point was that you were being unecessarily unreasonable and hyperbolic, IMO. I don't understand why that its the "kind of post" that you refuse to respond to. A post that disagrees with you? That points out that what you are saying is both falacious and unreasonable, and explains WHY you are being unreasonable?
What precisely about my post is so bad that its the kind of post "you refuse to respond to"?
The fact that I expressed frustration with your hyperbole exemplifying, IMO, the unreasonable and unfair anti overhaul crap that gets spewed on these forums ALL the fricking time?
Do you take issue with the fact that I was in essence cautioning you to try and express yourself in a more reasonable and measured way in future? What?
Actually, I hadn't read your post in its entirety. You probably could have stood to tone it down a bit as well.
Generally speaking, if you find yourself typing out more than six lines of text into a given post, take a long minute to assess whether you're expressing yourself with the right sort of clarity. Walls of text and essays tend to get away from their authors' original intent, and it's a good idea to rein it in if you catch your post going off the rails.
(And yes, I blame the post, not the person writing it; I've written myself into a corner on more than one occasion entirely by accident.)
Yeah I edited that into my response there that perhaps I came off a little more hostile than I intended to be and for that I do apologise.
Like I said it was mostly just expression of frustration with the unfair things that get said to you, and the other overhaul devs, because of things beyond your control. And to be basically called a liar when you explain why those things were beyond your control?
I have a great deal of respect for you guys. The last thing I or anyone else want is for you guys to stop coming into the forums like the Bioware devs pretty much had to because of frothing nerdrage.
@kamuizin I never really got what people have against you on these forums. Now I do.
You absolutely cherry picked ONE phrase out of my post, ignored the rest of it, and replied only to that one phrase. And you replied to it wrong.
I said "slap AN idiot" not THE idiot. The Idiot implies I was referring to the OP as an Idiot. Which I wasn't. Slap AN idiot is an expression of frustration regarding the nearly mindless and ridiculous anti BGEE/BG2EE, and Overhaul rage that gets spewed regularily on these forums. Perhaps it was a little more hostile than I ought to have been but honestly it doesn't affect my overall point.
At no point did I attack the OPs character. I merely pointed out that he could have expressed himself better, in a way that came off less frothingly nerdrage-y and more reasonable. I also addressed his actual points (the two points he gave) about why he feels "furious" and I fundamentally disagree with both because I feel like he isn't taking into account context and circumstance.
He is also outright calling the Developers liars. Which is rude and unwarranted.
Notice that one of the Devs is here, and I wasn't pulled up for violating or nearly violating the rules. Probably because @Dee read my entire post and judged the whole thing in its entirety instead of cherry picking one phrase from the 3rd line.
In essence my post was a plea for level headness and reasonable discussion. If you have a problem with that well... What can I say?
By the way:
@kamuizin I never really got what people have against you on these forums. Now I do.
No you don't, if i bait the challenge and start my tips, then you're will discover in first hand what people have against me in this forum.
I made by the way a polite and soft comment about your post, you don't need to take that too personal, as youself recognized later when @Dee replied your post, you really used some harsh words there, not totally direct offensive, but then if you feel ofense in my soft and polite post, you shoudn't be going out and making general labels of idiot for people that feel frustated with the actual game service of Beamdog.
The thread doesn't need to be derailed any further.
I THINK IT DOES.
So here's why I'M furious: avocadoes. First, I'm not 100% sure how to spell the word, especially in when referring to multiples. Second, they're ridiculously expensive round here. $2.50 for an avocado? I swear, they were a buck sixty-nine just last week! What's up with that?
While frustrating, all of that would be tolerable if I could actually find an avocado that's suitable for something OTHER than launching at a foe via catapult. But I can't! They're rocks, dark green rocks! I tried to make guacamole the other day and my blender's blade broke. What the hell? I mean seriously, WHAT THE HELL?
I don't expect much out of life. But when I purchase an avocado, really any foodstuff, but let's stay on-topic, I expect to be able to eat it immediately and not have to waste effort peeling it and carving the pit out. We've got genetically modified foods in this country. WE DON'T NEED AVOCADO PITS ANYMORE. I feel like the scientists who are genetically modifying pitless avocados have let me down. They should have bred them out years ago. What have they been doing all this time? Something sinister, I bet. You can't trust those avocado modifiers, them with their shifty eyes and their swing music and their live-in maids... There's something funky going on there, you just know it.
It just makes me mad. So mad. So mad that I've got to go into a public forum and complain at length, because that will certainly improve this intolerable situation for everyone: me, you, avocado farmers, blenders. It's a win/win/win/win situation.
I don't understand the anger. Being fans of the genre and the game, we should be rooting for success, and support them through any mistakes they may happen to make along the way. Getting pissed at people trying to revitalize this genre is only going to guarantee you RPGs like Dragon Age 2 to be released in the future.
The genre is being revitalized not just here look up Torment: Tides of Numenera and Project eternity.
The thread doesn't need to be derailed any further.
I THINK IT DOES.
So here's why I'M furious: avocadoes. First, I'm not 100% sure how to spell the word, especially in when referring to multiples. Second, they're ridiculously expensive round here. $2.50 for an avocado? I swear, they were a buck sixty-nine just last week! What's up with that?
While frustrating, all of that would be tolerable if I could actually find an avocado that's suitable for something OTHER than launching at a foe via catapult. But I can't! They're rocks, dark green rocks! I tried to make guacamole the other day and my blender's blade broke. What the hell? I mean seriously, WHAT THE HELL?
I don't expect much out of life. But when I purchase an avocado, really any foodstuff, but let's stay on-topic, I expect to be able to eat it immediately and not have to waste effort peeling it and carving the pit out. We've got genetically modified foods in this country. WE DON'T NEED AVOCADO PITS ANYMORE. I feel like the scientists who are genetically modifying pitless avocados have let me down. They should have bred them out years ago. What have they been doing all this time? Something sinister, I bet. You can't trust those avocado modifiers, them with their shifty eyes and their swing music and their live-in maids... There's something funky going on there, you just know it.
It just makes me mad. So mad. So mad that I've got to go into a public forum and complain at length, because that will certainly improve this intolerable situation for everyone: me, you, avocado farmers, blenders. It's a win/win/win/win situation.
Avocadoes!
AVOCADOES!
AAAAVOCAAAAAADOOOOOOOESSSSS!
Frankly, I think it's disgusting that you would decide to write a provocative message like this on a clearly pro-avocado forums.
Secondly, I think it's a shame that you feel a need to criticise scientists who are working around the clock to provide you with a better avocado experience. They didn't *need* to try to put together a series of avocado enhancements to improve and update on a much loved classic vegetable and bring it to a modern audience.
Sure, the developers made a mistake when the accidently filled everyone's avocados with gigantic face hugging spiders, but they are learning all the time from their mistakes. You can always head back to the supermarket to get a refund on your avocado if you wish, but bear in mind that you are not just buying the much-loved avocado of your youth here, but also investing in a possibility (if enough avocados are sold) of the long awaited avocado 2.0.
Overall, I'm just fed up with so-called vegetable enthusiasts sense of entitlement, which is literally killing the agricultural industry.
Comments
but I quickly raliz that it ma typing rally ifficult not bing abl to hit th "" or "" kys on my kyboar...
"but qucly ralz that t ma typng rally ffcult not bng abl to hit th "", "", "" or "" ys on my yboar"
Life's full of unforseeable problems. When you have a team of 100 solving them as you go, deadlines are often well kept. But even with companies of this size, these obstacles can become too complex and require deadlines to be pushed back. (Blizzard just delayed Titan for a few years because they needed to redo the engine). It happens.
(2)
It's easy to see problems everywhere you go, and even easier to just spend your life complaining about them for the sake of compaining. But nobody gains anything from your input when you state the problem without proposing some sort of solution to it. When you propose a solution that's actually feasible, your input becomes valuable.
(3)
Beamdog is working on a code that's very, very old. The developers look at the code and know full well how things SHOULD behave, but adapting old code to work in such a way can be nigh impossible without years of rework and restructuring. Working in a software development teaches you a lot. Even the most miniscule change can require a vast overhaul to the underlying systems behind it.
(4)
People want to like what they do. Everyone thrives to be respected in their workplace and to get regocnition over the small victories they have. If the overwhelming majority of feedback is negative, it doesn't really "WHIP UP THE MONKEYS TO DO BETTER!!!", but rather actually just drain the motivation and passion. And at least, has the developers focus on your hurt feelings and defending themselves rather than working on what they are supposed to work on.
Despite the flaws of the release Beamdog have bought a whole lot of goodwill from me. I'm more than happy to wait a bit longer (although the sooner real multiplayer and the android version are released the happier I'll be
It makes me want to facepalm. Or slap an idiot.
Is it really that difficult to explain yourself, and your viewpoint in a reasonable way? Does it always have to devolve into near inexplicable frothing nerdrage?
I get it sometimes rage is necessary, even warranted. Mass Effect 3 immediately leaps to mind. But dude it's a game. And Overhaul have done and are doing their best (unlike Bioware with ME3).
The contract restrictions limiting what they can do with the game is not their fault.
The fact Atari went bankrupt and they couldn't work on BGEE or release anything is not their fault.
The fact that a part (or most) of their team has moved onto BG2EE leaving less to work on BGEE probably isn't their fault either.
The patching issue? Your anger is unwarranted because for about 4 months there they couldn't work on it because Atari was going down the tubes. It's due out very soon. Keep in mind also there will be a delay for it on iPad because it needs to go via Apple for certification (I think?) as well.
The honesty thing? Again your anger is unwarranted, and you are being kind of rude. Just because things get changed doesn't mean that they were lying dude. I would much rather they said "okay patch incoming next week." and then "sorry guys unexpected problem with the patch. itll be delayed for a bit." rather than having developers afraid to come onto the forums and engage with the fans like on the BSN.
I mean look at poor Jennifer Hepler, she made one off the cuff comment about how she isn't a massive gamer and much prefers a good story (being a writer this isnt surprising) and the so called "fans" launched a crusade against her attacking her relentlessly to the point that she left the industry completely. It was fricking foul.
And that's just the kind of thing that your post stinks of.
Misplaced anger due to... dare i say it? Your huge entitlement complex.
Ya know what, if you had a specific issue that still hadn't been addressed, and you personally had brought it up on numerous occasions and NOTHING had been done then yeah I could get your anger (like myself when I typo/spell-checked and grammar fixed dozens of Events in the Kaiserreich mod for Heart's of Iron 2/Darkest Hour and posted my fixes in the thread for the mod 6 or 7 times over the course of 3 years and those typos, spelling errors, and grammar mistakes are still present in those events - "Mexico has selected 'Mexico dont accept no compromission!' in 'A german prince wants to visit Mexico'" is an example). But I don't get the impression that you have done that at all, nor are you taking into account the circumstances of the development of BGEE (or you are and just think that the Devs are lying about everything, in which case paranoid much?).
You need to calm down dude.
Here's some advice.
Next time something pisses you off, type out your post in a word document first. The go away have a cup of tea or something. Come back ten minutes later and reread the post and ask yourself if it sounds reasonable.
If it doesn't then rewrite it. If it does then go ahead and post it.
That way you at least know you are doing what you can to contribute constructively instead of just impotently nerdraging.
Anything over 'mildly annoyed' is generally unwarrented.
I mean, if you get 'furious' over this, what happens to you when you find out somebody broke into your house and stole your TV? Do you get 'furious-er'?
Several of the complaints are completely valid and the team has acknowledged this and have said they are working on improving themselves. Can't ask for more than that.
The rest of this post has been "spoilered". Read at your own risk, but do not respond.
--Dee
So, yeah.. back to the main basics for me here; what the f*ck the 'beta testers' mainly did (or are always doing..) too HERE?.. that is 'my' subject of wonder too here..mainly that ^^ and i began to be really (relatively too of course, of course..^^) a little.. puzzled... when i began to (actually) read (some parts) of that forum (and some of the heavy obsessed league posters!..with their favorites themas simply becoming more&more obvious..and not just the 'game mechanisms', nor respect to the 'original universe' lol..^^) ..and began to notice that many of the f*cking 'beta testers' (and/or their fans/followers^..) seemed in many cases more interested in talking in thread about new (gays, lesbians, etc) romances, gender topics, some even talking about how they contacted the poor (genius!) guy that created the Forgotten Realm universe (that's it?^) and dared to question/pressure him on his views on the gender/feminism/etc problems in his views etc !! *there* i began to notice smthg was f*cked up too in the behaviour of some 'beta testers' (you notice that, for now, i just put that on the back of the beta testers'..i am aware that it is a mainstream trend anyway in many other games/'fiction works' nowadays..so, not just 'beta testers'.. but let's be.. mild&moderate ^) .. and began to question THEIR primary motivations too 'lol'.. now, that is my personal little view on the 'topic'... no need to take it seriously..but i noticed it, yeah.. too. ^^
Now...now that i had actually play to BG1ee (so, hours to be reused to the universe, the atmosphere, lore/mythology inside, mechanisms rules, etc..^)... i AM ironically much more excited about the release of bg2ee than i was about bg1ee.. yes! that is possible too it seems... *)) But again, i am wondering that time how the 'beta testers' talking so well in those forums, and so prompt to say to others to just 'f*ck off' (with funny pics or not..)... how those ones actually dealt with the possible new bugs in bg2ee too so.. i really hope they DID their 'job' (even for 'free' out of just 'only passion'?!..^^) too in actually tracking the bugs BEFORE the real players (lol), BEFORE pushing some new activits theories about genders, romances to have, new way the new char should behave in those ways (according to THEIR -what should be- now PC liking apparently^), etc etc.. ^
So, well.. waiting for bg2ee with np as for me too here!
PS:
and i do the little effort to post a comment here too.. for the smart little a**es that would like to tell me it can't be understood, blas etc.. i just want to tell them too that: middle finger too f*cking m*rons lol (just humour too..remember!^^) , if you want to play to that little game too^^.. and btw, when you remove the middle finger, like the charming pic above, that can get a totally different meaning (if you have a little culture in those little fields^) ... 2 horns.. not even needed to withdraw the middle finger..maybe more suited for some too here (and what they want to push too apparently).. *// actually, that can work in both ways you know.. *)) (and yet, i don't say that for the team real guys behind .. i can really appreciate the(ir) real efforts done to re-release that saga (and even thank them..yes, yes..not in a vital hurry nor even 'angry' too here^^..though really interested always..and i always can value/appreciate passion/dedication when i can see some real ones)..^^).. that saga IS epic and really interesting as far as videogames (sub)culture goes (and not only!), that is 100% sure too..if only just to have to see what the game mainstream market became now, ultra violence, blood, and blowing heads everywhere (AND your f*cking -&next step=genderless indeed^- romances more and more pregnant and now apparently required too, as a coincidence too.. ^^ ) , to be simply genuisly interested in revisiting an 'old' classic, when that trend was just beginning (women char exactly same stats as men ones, totally reversible, etc was all normal already lol..but was only the beginning and obvious required first step to see!..).. and yes, the quality of the initial story (the infancy of the hero, etc..), descriptions of the original NPC and relations with them/etc.. all that is already totally different from what we can have nowadays too now..with all the perfectly legit (now) romances and all violence free contents and such..^^ just others that are beginning to bore me too with those kind of 'reflexes'..) ).
And hello to your little homes all.. just saying too .. just for the hell of it too.. after all, a forum like that is also to share even the unwished feelings of the actual customers and/or potential future ones too.. ^^ *))
PS2:
yeah, i could have opened a word doc and think 36h before posting that too, but i did not.. go wonder too)..that's the fun of it too i suppose (if fun there must be as i think on a place like that too; free speeches only out of 'passion', yes, sure!*))^^), hu..that you want it or not)) .. ^)) joking, just joking too... if there were no syntax/errors/approximations/(by definition) obvious possible things 'behind the scene' unknown by the common basic all the same marketed (and present!) customers when simply writing their reactions..left.. where would be the fun too (in many ways..)?^ ..and i guessed that was the whole philosophy of some of the people here regarding the game releases anyway, hehe..so why to reproach that to the people posting too now (aka showing their everlasting interest all the same..!) -beeing perfectly fair^) ?))... yeah, we can rush posts too sometimes, what the f*ck (boring you too that?!)?!.. *// *)) joking, just joking always.. *))
to the happy few.. the others.. i don't care too anyway^)
a (too) verbose post for a (out of time/delightful) verbose game.. bah *))
&friendly yours too - no hard/bad feelings at all too here... anyway.. end*)
Saying you're joking isn't an excuse to flame or insult other members of the community. Please follow the Site Rules.
your work is appreciated, go on bg2ee now, and thx for all.. )
@Drugar i believe that isn't the game that make the guy feel furious, but the deal, the business, the brought of an product that didn't reach his expectations. And it's pretty reasonable to people get furious with deals that doesn't please them.
@sunset00, are you tring to kill me with an overdose of words? Cos you spoiled text (thx @Dee) could feed an african country for years
@kamuizin I never really got what people have against you on these forums. Now I do.
You absolutely cherry picked ONE phrase out of my post, ignored the rest of it, and replied only to that one phrase. And you replied to it wrong.
I said "slap AN idiot" not THE idiot. The Idiot implies I was referring to the OP as an Idiot. Which I wasn't. Slap AN idiot is an expression of frustration regarding the nearly mindless and ridiculous anti BGEE/BG2EE, and Overhaul rage that gets spewed regularily on these forums. Perhaps it was a little more hostile than I ought to have been but honestly it doesn't affect my overall point.
At no point did I attack the OPs character. I merely pointed out that he could have expressed himself better, in a way that came off less frothingly nerdrage-y and more reasonable. I also addressed his actual points (the two points he gave) about why he feels "furious" and I fundamentally disagree with both because I feel like he isn't taking into account context and circumstance.
He is also outright calling the Developers liars. Which is rude and unwarranted.
Notice that one of the Devs is here, and I wasn't pulled up for violating or nearly violating the rules. Probably because @Dee read my entire post and judged the whole thing in its entirety instead of cherry picking one phrase from the 3rd line.
In essence my post was a plea for level headness and reasonable discussion. If you have a problem with that well... What can I say?
@sunset00
I would address you as I want to believe that you are trying to engage me and my points in a reasonable way, and express your own dissatisfaction with BGEE. Which is fine you can dislike the game all you please if you want to.
I just want people to dislike it for legitimate reasons, not for things that are out of anyone's control. As long as the dislike is articulated in a reasonable way I welcome dissent from my own viewpoint.
Sadly I can not actually respond to you for two reasons. Firstly @Dee has basically forbidden it. lol. And secondly I don't really understand it because its a really poorly punctuated wall-o-text mess that is really really hard to read.
I don't mean that as an insult by the way, just as a statement of fact. I find it difficult to comprehend what you are saying due to the formatting of your post. Another very good reason to type up in a word doc (and use spell checker!) prior to posting.
I am not saying that people don't post in anger or upset when they really ought not to. I get that it happens sometimes. I am merely suggesting that its probably better not to; or when you know you are upset to back away to calm down before responding. If you can.
Also I caricatured his post in the way I did because that was in essence what he was saying (I realise the irony in using hyperbole to criticise his hyperbole). He was raging about things that were out of the control of the developers (the contractual obligations preventing massively significant changes, and Atari going down the tubes forcing Overhaul to delay any work on BGEE/BG2EE for 4 to 5 months) and was basically calling them liars in order to justify his own contextless, unreasonable, and unfair viewpoint.
@darkmobson
My point was that you were being unecessarily unreasonable and hyperbolic, IMO. I don't understand why that its the "kind of post" that you refuse to respond to. A post that disagrees with you? That points out that what you are saying is both falacious and unreasonable, and explains WHY you are being unreasonable?
What precisely about my post is so bad that its the kind of post "you refuse to respond to"?
The fact that I expressed frustration with your hyperbole exemplifying, IMO, the unreasonable and unfair anti overhaul crap that gets spewed on these forums ALL the fricking time?
Do you take issue with the fact that I was in essence cautioning you to try and express yourself in a more reasonable and measured way in future? What?
Generally speaking, if you find yourself typing out more than six lines of text into a given post, take a long minute to assess whether you're expressing yourself with the right sort of clarity. Walls of text and essays tend to get away from their authors' original intent, and it's a good idea to rein it in if you catch your post going off the rails.
(And yes, I blame the post, not the person writing it; I've written myself into a corner on more than one occasion entirely by accident.)
Yeah I edited that into my response there that perhaps I came off a little more hostile than I intended to be and for that I do apologise.
Like I said it was mostly just expression of frustration with the unfair things that get said to you, and the other overhaul devs, because of things beyond your control. And to be basically called a liar when you explain why those things were beyond your control?
I have a great deal of respect for you guys. The last thing I or anyone else want is for you guys to stop coming into the forums like the Bioware devs pretty much had to because of frothing nerdrage.
I made by the way a polite and soft comment about your post, you don't need to take that too personal, as youself recognized later when @Dee replied your post, you really used some harsh words there, not totally direct offensive, but then if you feel ofense in my soft and polite post, you shoudn't be going out and making general labels of idiot for people that feel frustated with the actual game service of Beamdog.
And Point. Missing It.
Once again you cherry pick a single phrase of my entire part of my post directed at you and respond to that ONE single thing and ignore the rest.
Wow.
Okay. Never mind then dude.
So here's why I'M furious: avocadoes. First, I'm not 100% sure how to spell the word, especially in when referring to multiples. Second, they're ridiculously expensive round here. $2.50 for an avocado? I swear, they were a buck sixty-nine just last week! What's up with that?
While frustrating, all of that would be tolerable if I could actually find an avocado that's suitable for something OTHER than launching at a foe via catapult. But I can't! They're rocks, dark green rocks! I tried to make guacamole the other day and my blender's blade broke. What the hell? I mean seriously, WHAT THE HELL?
I don't expect much out of life. But when I purchase an avocado, really any foodstuff, but let's stay on-topic, I expect to be able to eat it immediately and not have to waste effort peeling it and carving the pit out. We've got genetically modified foods in this country. WE DON'T NEED AVOCADO PITS ANYMORE. I feel like the scientists who are genetically modifying pitless avocados have let me down. They should have bred them out years ago. What have they been doing all this time? Something sinister, I bet. You can't trust those avocado modifiers, them with their shifty eyes and their swing music and their live-in maids... There's something funky going on there, you just know it.
It just makes me mad. So mad. So mad that I've got to go into a public forum and complain at length, because that will certainly improve this intolerable situation for everyone: me, you, avocado farmers, blenders. It's a win/win/win/win situation.
Avocadoes!
AVOCADOES!
AAAAVOCAAAAAADOOOOOOOESSSSS!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ExLfXzLxxuE#t=49
The pits are there to look like nipples when you make avocado tits.
This is just a friendly reminder for everyone to read the site rules.
Secondly, I think it's a shame that you feel a need to criticise scientists who are working around the clock to provide you with a better avocado experience. They didn't *need* to try to put together a series of avocado enhancements to improve and update on a much loved classic vegetable and bring it to a modern audience.
Sure, the developers made a mistake when the accidently filled everyone's avocados with gigantic face hugging spiders, but they are learning all the time from their mistakes. You can always head back to the supermarket to get a refund on your avocado if you wish, but bear in mind that you are not just buying the much-loved avocado of your youth here, but also investing in a possibility (if enough avocados are sold) of the long awaited avocado 2.0.
Overall, I'm just fed up with so-called vegetable enthusiasts sense of entitlement, which is literally killing the agricultural industry.