As I said in my post I was speaking of issues in terms of order of magnitude. And I used ME3 as an example of a game that was much more of a disappointment than BGEE (IMO, BGEE wasn't disappointing at all) and had issues of a greater magnitude far in excess of the issues that people have with BGEE or Overhaul than people had with ME3 and Bioware.
I am not speaking of subjective things either.
And when people brought these much more serious issues up, others shouted them down as "entitled idiots". Now if you liked ME3 thats great, i'm glad you did. That doesn't make you a fanboy.
Unless you are confessing to being one of the people who shouted down those who DIDN'T like ME3 as being entitled idiots? Which I don't think you are.
I don't really get into a discussion of ME3 here as it is off topic. It was only peripherally related as an example of part of a fanbase reacting a "unapologetic fanboy" way to people who had issues with the game.
Also I never said I disliked ME3. I said it was an objectively mediocre game, especially compared to its predecessors. I enjoyed it for what it was, but I found it to be lesser than ME1 and ME2.
I don't believe that at any point I have shouted down anyone who dislikes BGEE, or has issues with the game. I specifically detailed one of my issues with the game that irritates the crap out of me. I have said repeatedly that i welcome reasonable discussion on the merits of BGEE and its issues. Reasonable is the keyword here. The thing that I have issue with is nerdrage. And fanboyism as well. I like neither.
Granted all this is just my opinion, and maybe I am just digging myself deeper. I don't know.
Personally, I can understand the point of view of those that are 100% happy. After all we have BG EE out and playable now. We also have BG2 EE to look forward to.
In respect to any disastisfaction that has been exhibited by others many points that have been made are valid, and at times I guess people are getting upset by either the lack of communication or what they see as miscommunication on dates etc.
As the time goes by I find myself getting a little agitated about how things have gone the last year or so, however my agitation is purely a selfish one - I want the moon on the stick! Venting that sort of agitated state on the forums can be cathartic but it can also be detrimental to the community overall if done to often.
I just get bored by seeing negative threads on here, I'm looking forward to the the more community driven threads picking up again especially when BG2 EE is out. As the negativity can be divisive and of course leads to people leaving the community.
I just get bored by seeing negative threads on here, I'm looking forward to the the more community driven threads picking up again especially when BG2 EE is out. As the negativity can be divisive and of course leads to people leaving the community.
I simply don't see all these negative threads on this board. Where are they? Can someone show them to me?
There was one that I know of (that has been recently closed), but even if the initial post was a negative one, it was mainly full of positive replies.
There are also some negative posts in this and other discussions, but they are simply lost in a sea of positive posts.
People see what they want to see, I think. There's a healthy amount of positive and negative posts and threads here, but if you're looking for negativity (or positivity) you'll find it.
The ones that bother me are the ones where complaints about the game degenerate into complaints about individuals, whether those individuals are on the development team or just part of the community.
Unless you are confessing to being one of the people who shouted down those who DIDN'T like ME3 as being entitled idiots? Which I don't think you are.
I would say that I voiced my concerns about it, and addressed the unnecessary vitriol laced in those complaints just as I address it in regards to BGEE. The people who signed petitions and raged at Bioware to change the ending and accused them of selling out and trying to ruin and monetize the genre certainly were being entitled idiots and deserved to be called on it, at least.
Also I never said I disliked ME3. I said it was an objectively mediocre game, especially compared to its predecessors. I enjoyed it for what it was, but I found it to be lesser than ME1 and ME2.
...
Granted all this is just my opinion, and maybe I am just digging myself deeper. I don't know.
It certainly was not "objectively" anything. Your opinion, by its very nature, is subjective. The metric by which a game, film, or book can be called "objectively" bad/good/mediocre simply does not exist.
People see what they want to see, I think. There's a healthy amount of positive and negative posts and threads here, but if you're looking for negativity (or positivity) you'll find it.
I still think the positive outweigh the negative in this particular board.
If had enough time I would count the posts and show that with a nice plot
Personally, I think opinions from both ends of the spectrum of opinions here are fine, as long as they are politely stated. I don't think I could honestly say that I have *no* complaints, but my overall opinion of the Enhanced Edition project, viewed as a whole, is extremely positive, and I am looking forward to things continually evolving and getting better.
I did complain rather loudly and bitterly last November when my game wouldn't unlock on release day, and I wound up not being able to play until a few days later. I needed to vent about it. The company resolved the issue, I could play, everything was fine, and the world went on turning.
I complained about there being no keyboard bind for the zoom function. A very nice community member wrote a computer script just for me, and even put it in a little .exe for me, to bind the zoom function to the "+ " and "-" keys on my keyboard.
I've been known to say I didn't like the new NPC's because of their classes. A lot of other people said they *do* like them. A very nice community member released EE Keeper, which pretty much solved the problem for me - if I wanted them to be other classes, I could change them, and I didn't have to manipulate file folders to make the older Keeper version work.
I'm not sure I understand why people keep getting into fights about their opinions. Every time somebody posts that they're very happy with where we are, other people jump in and start arguing the opposite, implying with word choices, quoting, and tagging, that there is something personally wrong with the one who is happy, sometimes going so far as to choose deliberately insulting language.
Every time somebody posts that they're still unhappy, other people jump in and start saying the opposite, implying with word choices, quoting, and tagging, that there is something personally wrong with the one who is unhappy.
Whichever group posts, positive or negative, the other group seems to take it as a personal insult.
I don't really get that. It seems to me that the posting of honest, polite comments, both positive and negative, can only lead to solutions being found, and more people being happy with the project.
Mainly I just want to voice my love for the developers. I don't want the Dev's to be discouraged because I want more and more BG!
And I am a total fan-boy. When I love a series I am patient. All I want right now is BG2 EE on my plate so I can go from crushing Sarevok to crushing Irenicus.
I am starting to think that you look for reasons to be offended dude. Seriously. lol.
I didn't say everyone who liked ME3 was a fanboy. But since that's what your determined to believe - that i hate ME3 and think everyone tho likes it is an idiot. Well then fair enough.
As I said I don't really want to get into a discussion about ME3 because doing so would be going into OT territory. I used it as an example. That was it. It was only peripherally related to the conversation. So all I am going to say is I disagree with you, and that your belief that media can only be subjectively bad and can never be objectively bad is complete nonsense IMO.
Long and short of it was I was trying to say pretty much what @belgarathmth said. Let's be reasonable and excellent to each other. Lol. Clearly I completely ballsed that up, but I was trying lol.
I am starting to think that you look for reasons to be offended dude. Seriously. lol.
I didn't say everyone who liked ME3 was a fanboy. But since that's what your determined to believe - that i hate ME3 and think everyone tho likes it is an idiot. Well then fair enough.
Why should I be offended by what you think of whoever enjoys ME3, considering that I'm not one of those
I merely thought that you had double standards about ME3 and BGEE, but from what you're posting now it looks like I have misunderstood you.
Objectivity requires that no personal feelings or opinions enter into the equation, only facts. For a text (film, books, and even games) to be objectively bad, good, or middling, there would have to be a universally agreed upon, factual metric for determining that much, and that simply does not exist. Your incoherent plot is somebody’s perfect narrative, and your favorite, most developed character is somebody else’s cliché protagonist.
There is a reason literature critics don’t debate whether a novel or short story is “good” or “bad,” because that is a discussion so subjective that it isn’t even worth talking about. They argue what a novel is conveying thematically and back up their claims with textual evidence, referring to past works, and other evidence. Nobody cares if you think Moby Dick is “good” or not, only how you interpret it.
If you're on these forums then you have an amount of love for Baldur's Gate. I have yet to see anyone say that new items of content are bad. Things are changing in what has previously been a fairly static environment, and that's bound to get hackles raised.
Things are not perfect, but they never were despite the nostalgia-vision. They are getting better and I am definitely glad of it. Noone can really attain perfection, but as time progresses we get closer.
If you're on these forums then you have an amount of love for Baldur's Gate. I have yet to see anyone say that new items of content are bad.
Actually, I don't think that the new content is bad per se, but IMO it is bad that it isn't optional.
Yes, you can just choose to ignore it, but I would like to have a sort of "vanilla mode" allowing to switch off all the new content. Not always, just for some of the walkthroughs.
Even better if you could selectively choose what to activate and what not. IMO it would enhance greatly the replayability factor and provide an opportunity to try at least once the game how it was intended originally.
But I'm aware that this is hardly feasible, that's why I'm not posting the idea among the Feature Requests.
Comments
Obviously I never explained myself correctly. I apologise, I'll try and clear things up.
@Erg @Schneidend
As I said in my post I was speaking of issues in terms of order of magnitude. And I used ME3 as an example of a game that was much more of a disappointment than BGEE (IMO, BGEE wasn't disappointing at all) and had issues of a greater magnitude far in excess of the issues that people have with BGEE or Overhaul than people had with ME3 and Bioware.
I am not speaking of subjective things either.
And when people brought these much more serious issues up, others shouted them down as "entitled idiots". Now if you liked ME3 thats great, i'm glad you did. That doesn't make you a fanboy.
Unless you are confessing to being one of the people who shouted down those who DIDN'T like ME3 as being entitled idiots? Which I don't think you are.
I don't really get into a discussion of ME3 here as it is off topic. It was only peripherally related as an example of part of a fanbase reacting a "unapologetic fanboy" way to people who had issues with the game.
Also I never said I disliked ME3. I said it was an objectively mediocre game, especially compared to its predecessors. I enjoyed it for what it was, but I found it to be lesser than ME1 and ME2.
I don't believe that at any point I have shouted down anyone who dislikes BGEE, or has issues with the game. I specifically detailed one of my issues with the game that irritates the crap out of me. I have said repeatedly that i welcome reasonable discussion on the merits of BGEE and its issues. Reasonable is the keyword here.
The thing that I have issue with is nerdrage. And fanboyism as well. I like neither.
Granted all this is just my opinion, and maybe I am just digging myself deeper. I don't know.
@fitscotgaymer
Even for those who happen to like ME3 (incidentally I don't).
In respect to any disastisfaction that has been exhibited by others many points that have been made are valid, and at times I guess people are getting upset by either the lack of communication or what they see as miscommunication on dates etc.
As the time goes by I find myself getting a little agitated about how things have gone the last year or so, however my agitation is purely a selfish one - I want the moon on the stick! Venting that sort of agitated state on the forums can be cathartic but it can also be detrimental to the community overall if done to often.
I just get bored by seeing negative threads on here, I'm looking forward to the the more community driven threads picking up again especially when BG2 EE is out. As the negativity can be divisive and of course leads to people leaving the community.
There was one that I know of (that has been recently closed), but even if the initial post was a negative one, it was mainly full of positive replies.
There are also some negative posts in this and other discussions, but they are simply lost in a sea of positive posts.
The ones that bother me are the ones where complaints about the game degenerate into complaints about individuals, whether those individuals are on the development team or just part of the community.
If had enough time I would count the posts and show that with a nice plot
Maybe someone else could do it. Any volunteer ?
I did complain rather loudly and bitterly last November when my game wouldn't unlock on release day, and I wound up not being able to play until a few days later. I needed to vent about it. The company resolved the issue, I could play, everything was fine, and the world went on turning.
I complained about there being no keyboard bind for the zoom function. A very nice community member wrote a computer script just for me, and even put it in a little .exe for me, to bind the zoom function to the "+ " and "-" keys on my keyboard.
I've been known to say I didn't like the new NPC's because of their classes. A lot of other people said they *do* like them. A very nice community member released EE Keeper, which pretty much solved the problem for me - if I wanted them to be other classes, I could change them, and I didn't have to manipulate file folders to make the older Keeper version work.
I'm not sure I understand why people keep getting into fights about their opinions. Every time somebody posts that they're very happy with where we are, other people jump in and start arguing the opposite, implying with word choices, quoting, and tagging, that there is something personally wrong with the one who is happy, sometimes going so far as to choose deliberately insulting language.
Every time somebody posts that they're still unhappy, other people jump in and start saying the opposite, implying with word choices, quoting, and tagging, that there is something personally wrong with the one who is unhappy.
Whichever group posts, positive or negative, the other group seems to take it as a personal insult.
I don't really get that. It seems to me that the posting of honest, polite comments, both positive and negative, can only lead to solutions being found, and more people being happy with the project.
I don't want the Dev's to be discouraged because I want more and more BG!
And I am a total fan-boy. When I love a series I am patient.
All I want right now is BG2 EE on my plate so I can go from crushing Sarevok to crushing Irenicus.
Counting the days!
I am starting to think that you look for reasons to be offended dude. Seriously. lol.
I didn't say everyone who liked ME3 was a fanboy. But since that's what your determined to believe - that i hate ME3 and think everyone tho likes it is an idiot. Well then fair enough.
@Schneidend
As I said I don't really want to get into a discussion about ME3 because doing so would be going into OT territory. I used it as an example. That was it. It was only peripherally related to the conversation. So all I am going to say is I disagree with you, and that your belief that media can only be subjectively bad and can never be objectively bad is complete nonsense IMO.
Long and short of it was I was trying to say pretty much what @belgarathmth said. Let's be reasonable and excellent to each other. Lol. Clearly I completely ballsed that up, but I was trying lol.
I merely thought that you had double standards about ME3 and BGEE, but from what you're posting now it looks like I have misunderstood you.
Objectivity requires that no personal feelings or opinions enter into the equation, only facts. For a text (film, books, and even games) to be objectively bad, good, or middling, there would have to be a universally agreed upon, factual metric for determining that much, and that simply does not exist. Your incoherent plot is somebody’s perfect narrative, and your favorite, most developed character is somebody else’s cliché protagonist.
There is a reason literature critics don’t debate whether a novel or short story is “good” or “bad,” because that is a discussion so subjective that it isn’t even worth talking about. They argue what a novel is conveying thematically and back up their claims with textual evidence, referring to past works, and other evidence. Nobody cares if you think Moby Dick is “good” or not, only how you interpret it.
Things are not perfect, but they never were despite the nostalgia-vision. They are getting better and I am definitely glad of it. Noone can really attain perfection, but as time progresses we get closer.
Yes, you can just choose to ignore it, but I would like to have a sort of "vanilla mode" allowing to switch off all the new content. Not always, just for some of the walkthroughs.
Even better if you could selectively choose what to activate and what not. IMO it would enhance greatly the replayability factor and provide an opportunity to try at least once the game how it was intended originally.
But I'm aware that this is hardly feasible, that's why I'm not posting the idea among the Feature Requests.