Technically they should focus on the EU alone since thats where the bulk of the members on the forum are...
Here in the states Credit/Debit Cards and Paypal are the ONLY form of currency I use. The Credit cards I use probably keep track of the things I purchase....and personally could care less. I dump spam automatically and the trash can is on the way back from the mail box so that kind of spam doesnt even make it into the house.
Dont think they will come with the actual number of pre-orders . And i dont care. What i care for , is that they make their wishes come through. Then we all have a future that looks a little brighter ,hence, BG III :O)
edit: err the point being they should make advances here, not us, we are the ones with the money remember? This is not a charity convention.
It makes no sense for a very low-budget project to spend its money on making more payment options available to niche groups when viable methods exist. Use a credit card and then delete the information from Beamdog, use Paypal Europe, there are options available to you. Frankly, I would rather see the project's money invested in game content, rather than placating you.
Yes, EU is really not big on credit cards. Free market will eventually sort it out, i still think this is because they are enforced to report/keep user data to/for the government, and paysafecard is completely anonymous.
I have to agree that the economy of scale doesn't kick in for a company this small. When Steam goes through the trouble of setting up an alternative payment mechanism they see the benefit for thousands of available games. Beamdog does not sell very many games comparably. The cost associated with more payment options is probably not worth it. I don't think it's that they don't want your money. The issue is that it would cost them more money to deal with your business than it would bring in. The saying is that you don't bend over a fifty to pick up a twenty. I wouldn't take it personally.
Eh are you guys actually know how much it costs to set it up or just theorizing on why it isnt implemented.
No need to look for conspiracy theories, they are just lazy. For the record EA Origin doesnt support it either, and they certainly have the money. I think they do support it now though. Its just poor customer relations.
Ive been involved in setting up retail systems and I know the kinds of margins companies operate on, even a seemingly small change to the dynamic can mean the difference between profitability and going under.
PayPal doesn't require a credit card - it requires a bank account. Aren't the EU big on those? I mean, Swiss Banks are known throughout the world, as are those of London. Or bribe somebody with a card to buy it for you - can't see it being that hard.
@immagikman Gains depend on target audience too no, like you said lots of people from EU here. Well like said im fine with that, its their choice. The beauty of a free market. But you know what they say, good guys look for solutions, bad guys look for excuses. While this certainly applies both ways, im not under pressure of paying monthly bills for workers. Eventually either they go bankrupt or more people will get paypal or whats that called.
edit: Oh on a related note Gabe Newell is a billionaire and thats certainly not because he enforced restrictions down on people, so cant be that bad.
@immagikman Yeah, but where would you store all those copies?
Trent Oster tweeted a few days ago that preorders have reached half his goal... If it was his goal for preorders revenue or for expected revenue from the Windows version it was not very clear to me.
@immagikman Thats a bit idealistic tbh. Sometimes things are not done simply because they are not thought about, or not thought about enough. Especially in a small company. Else everyone would be perfect and rich.
They neither have the time advantage of Steam, nor the resources of EA, so have to have something to cause users to use it, cant do it with generic service anymore no? Thus i think Beamdog is just hoping for a lucky shot or something like that, and thats a bad decision imo.
@Roller12 Being a billionaire doesn't have any bearing on the discussion. And Gabe does enforce plenty of restrictions on customers. You are absolutely correct that you have no obligation to buy this or any other game. It sounds like you shouldn't buy it. But don't confuse a small business with a big business. I have dealt with credit card acceptance and it is a huge expense for the vendor. I can't imagine these fringe alternatives perform their services for free. Valve is a large scale business and can afford to offer more options. Good for them. It's great to have that kind of scale. Beamdog doesn't.
As a consumer you can either take the good with the bad and do business with Beamdog or pass on their product. I applaud you for making your feelings known to them on this forum. But your tone does seem to betray your cause. There is a fine line between requesting a change and predicting bankruptcy. No one is making excuses either. This game will probably make its way to Steam eventually. There is a whole thread dedicated to that sticky subject. When it is released there this point will become moot as you will have access to Steam payment options.
@immagikman Thats a bit idealistic tbh. Sometimes things are not done simply because they are not thought about, or not thought about enough. Especially in a small company. Else everyone would be perfect and rich.
They neither have the time advantage of Steam, nor the resources of EA, so have to have something to cause users to use it, cant do it with generic service anymore no? Thus i think Beamdog is just hoping for a lucky shot or something like that, and thats a bad decision imo.
The people who fail in the CBA are the poor and the unwise
Trent Oster tweeted a few days ago that preorders have reached half his goal... If it was his goal for preorders revenue or for expected revenue from the Windows version it was not very clear to me.
What I would like to know, is how much is their total operating budget for creating the re-release. If we knew that figure, we could figure out how many copies they need to sell at $20/pc sale and $10/pad app sale to reach the break even point.
Aren't they paying annual salaries to all the people working on BG:EE? If you had, say, four people on staff being paid $50,000 per year, that's already $200,000 in payroll expense, before even going into overhead and taxes. They'd have to sell 10,000 PC copies Just to make salaries for four people.
I wish somebody who's good with business cost accounting would run some simple figures for us, and give us a ballpark estimate of how many copies of BG:EE need to be sold for the development team to break even, and then have a big enough profit to justify the venture capital outlay for a project of this (relatively small) size.
I'm curious about the figures because, like everyone here, I am really rooting for this project.
We also have no idea how the profit is being divided between Overhaul and the IP holders, or the development costs involved in new voice overs and art for the game. That would make things easier to figure out how well the game has to sell to break even and starting turning in a profit.
No need to look for conspiracy theories, they are just lazy.
This statement rankles me as an unfair judgement call on your part. You don't have all of the facts, you're no more aware of why Beamdog is making its decisions than the rest of us are.
Although they never would, Beamdog could easily make a judgment call of their own and respond to you by saying, "Europeans are overly obsessed with privacy (hence the unpopularity of credit cards), there's no reason they can't use PayPal or a credit card." Just like your statement, this one has precedent to back it up, but that doesn't make it any less of a douchey thing to say.
Im not judgmental, im realistic. Because i actually care, and ask before the game is released how the hell do they want to make money from Beamdog, which is in everyones interest by the way. Do not confuse it with BGee its just a tool to promote the service and their best shot of doing so. According to the poll from the next thread 66% of people here are from EU.
If for whatever reason they cant make a competitive service they should go to Steam right from the start, make some money, _then_ start an online service which is actually competitive so people will have an incentive to use it. Adventure times are gone, market is full.
What reason is there to use Beamdog for anything eh? They need a key product and they need to SELL it at all costs to attract users, who in turn will generate income by buying other products, even if it is, like some people imagine it to be for some reason, a loss.
@Roller12 Nothing of what you just said is "realistic," as you put it.
You state that if they can't make their own service they should go directly to Steam. Again, Steam is one of the most expensive services for a game maker to buy into. I feel like I'm beating a dead horse here; many games never make it to Steam because of Steam's vetting process, or they just can't pay what Valve wants to distribute their game.
Your last statement is just confusing to me. "They need a key product and they need to SELL it at all costs ..." Of course Beamdog is interested in attracting new users, they're a business. Personally, I will probably never buy another Beamdog game other than the BGEE series, so I don't plan on buying "other products," as you state.
I'm not sure what world you live in where marketing and business deals don't exist, but it sure isn't "realistic."
*shrugs* Unless you think that Trent Oster and his BeamDog associates are completely brilliant when it comes to Baldur's Gate, but utterly incompetent in all matters of business, I think it reasonable to assume that the business decisions regarding BG:EE were carefully vetted and considered with the aim of making this project viable. If it's a smashing success that exceeds expectations, then there will probably be changes/expansions in the ways that it will become available. In other words, I think that they assessed the risks of other means and went with the lower risk. After all, it's a digital medium, so they (BeamDog/Overhaul) have a lot of future flexibility.
Anyway, my plan is to play the game and thoroughly enjoy it. I'll buy a second copy/license for my daughter (a student in Japanese Language) when that translation is done, as I'm dying to learn how to say "You must gather your party before venturing forth" in Japanese. Also, I think Yoshimo-San will sound fantastic in nihongo.
If lots of people enjoy and love BG:EE, this will bode well. My suspicion is that the iPad will be the 'big' thing for this game. It seriously is making me reconsider my previous decision not to buy one! How fun would BG:EE during waiting times at doctor's offices and the like?
I completly agree with reedmilfam. They expect the greater revenue from iOS version. I'd like to know what made them reconsider an Android version as a high pirating ratio was feared and the original reason there was not going to be one.
When it comes to numbers, I thank the guesses here are a bit at the low side. The number of forum badges is most likely only a fraction of the total pre-orders, because most people don't bother registering at the forums. Given that the forums alone do have more than 140 simultanous members even before release, I guess this game will be quite succesful for an indie production.
I suppose that less than 10% of the people who pre-ordered have a forums account and therefore guess that there are way more than 10k pre-orders at the moment.
@Nalim What are your guesses based on Nalim? Not to be rude but it looks like you are just pulling them out of your @ss I do hope your guesses are better than mine though, as I want this to be a huge success.
@Smaug What? There is no deal with Beamdog. Beamdog=Overhaul Games. I cant really reply to the claim that Steam lack games either, its just way too funny of a statement.
>Your last statement is just confusing to me. "They need a key product and they need to SELL it at all costs ..."
Yes, i understand that it might look confusing to people. It is however a mainstream tactic of generating income. The profitability of the user attracting product is not the main concern, as it is not where the income comes from. If you do not plan to purchase further games from Beamdog, than they have failed already, and there will be no Bg3.
Also X-blades costs $30 (24E) on Beamdog X-blades costs $24 (19E) on Steam
@Roller12 My statement was not that Steam lacks games, I believe your English has failed you there. I stated that many games that apply to Steam never make it to their marketplace b/c of Valve's vetting process and their hefty commission. If you think every game that makes an application to be carried by Steam makes it to their market, you're kidding yourself.
Your last statement is akin to your previous statement calling the Beamdog team lazy. You have no idea what Beamdog's internal financial situation is, neither do I. Furthermore, I am not predictive of the overall success or failure of Beamdog's marketing. Perhaps many other people will purchase several other games from Beamdog. This is really immaterial to our discussion, however. Your original supposition was that there was no reason to use Beamdog; I don't want to repeat myself so I'll just point you back to my previous post.
Comments
Here in the states Credit/Debit Cards and Paypal are the ONLY form of currency I use. The Credit cards I use probably keep track of the things I purchase....and personally could care less. I dump spam automatically and the trash can is on the way back from the mail box so that kind of spam doesnt even make it into the house.
Dont think they will come with the actual number of pre-orders . And i dont care. What i care for , is that they make their wishes come through. Then we all have a future that looks a little brighter ,hence, BG III :O)
No need to look for conspiracy theories, they are just lazy. For the record EA Origin doesnt support it either, and they certainly have the money. I think they do support it now though. Its just poor customer relations.
Gains depend on target audience too no, like you said lots of people from EU here. Well like said im fine with that, its their choice. The beauty of a free market. But you know what they say, good guys look for solutions, bad guys look for excuses. While this certainly applies both ways, im not under pressure of paying monthly bills for workers. Eventually either they go bankrupt or more people will get paypal or whats that called.
edit: Oh on a related note Gabe Newell is a billionaire and thats certainly not because he enforced restrictions down on people, so cant be that bad.
Trent Oster tweeted a few days ago that preorders have reached half his goal... If it was his goal for preorders revenue or for expected revenue from the Windows version it was not very clear to me.
Thats a bit idealistic tbh. Sometimes things are not done simply because they are not thought about, or not thought about enough. Especially in a small company. Else everyone would be perfect and rich.
They neither have the time advantage of Steam, nor the resources of EA, so have to have something to cause users to use it, cant do it with generic service anymore no? Thus i think Beamdog is just hoping for a lucky shot or something like that, and thats a bad decision imo.
As a consumer you can either take the good with the bad and do business with Beamdog or pass on their product. I applaud you for making your feelings known to them on this forum. But your tone does seem to betray your cause. There is a fine line between requesting a change and predicting bankruptcy. No one is making excuses either. This game will probably make its way to Steam eventually. There is a whole thread dedicated to that sticky subject. When it is released there this point will become moot as you will have access to Steam payment options.
Aren't they paying annual salaries to all the people working on BG:EE? If you had, say, four people on staff being paid $50,000 per year, that's already $200,000 in payroll expense, before even going into overhead and taxes. They'd have to sell 10,000 PC copies Just to make salaries for four people.
I wish somebody who's good with business cost accounting would run some simple figures for us, and give us a ballpark estimate of how many copies of BG:EE need to be sold for the development team to break even, and then have a big enough profit to justify the venture capital outlay for a project of this (relatively small) size.
I'm curious about the figures because, like everyone here, I am really rooting for this project.
Although they never would, Beamdog could easily make a judgment call of their own and respond to you by saying, "Europeans are overly obsessed with privacy (hence the unpopularity of credit cards), there's no reason they can't use PayPal or a credit card." Just like your statement, this one has precedent to back it up, but that doesn't make it any less of a douchey thing to say.
If for whatever reason they cant make a competitive service they should go to Steam right from the start, make some money, _then_ start an online service which is actually competitive so people will have an incentive to use it. Adventure times are gone, market is full.
What reason is there to use Beamdog for anything eh? They need a key product and they need to SELL it at all costs to attract users, who in turn will generate income by buying other products, even if it is, like some people imagine it to be for some reason, a loss.
You state that if they can't make their own service they should go directly to Steam. Again, Steam is one of the most expensive services for a game maker to buy into. I feel like I'm beating a dead horse here; many games never make it to Steam because of Steam's vetting process, or they just can't pay what Valve wants to distribute their game.
Your last statement is just confusing to me. "They need a key product and they need to SELL it at all costs ..." Of course Beamdog is interested in attracting new users, they're a business. Personally, I will probably never buy another Beamdog game other than the BGEE series, so I don't plan on buying "other products," as you state.
I'm not sure what world you live in where marketing and business deals don't exist, but it sure isn't "realistic."
Anyway, my plan is to play the game and thoroughly enjoy it. I'll buy a second copy/license for my daughter (a student in Japanese Language) when that translation is done, as I'm dying to learn how to say "You must gather your party before venturing forth" in Japanese. Also, I think Yoshimo-San will sound fantastic in nihongo.
If lots of people enjoy and love BG:EE, this will bode well. My suspicion is that the iPad will be the 'big' thing for this game. It seriously is making me reconsider my previous decision not to buy one! How fun would BG:EE during waiting times at doctor's offices and the like?
I suppose that less than 10% of the people who pre-ordered have a forums account and therefore guess that there are way more than 10k pre-orders at the moment.
What are your guesses based on Nalim? Not to be rude but it looks like you are just pulling them out of your @ss
What? There is no deal with Beamdog. Beamdog=Overhaul Games. I cant really reply to the claim that Steam lack games either, its just way too funny of a statement.
>Your last statement is just confusing to me. "They need a key product and they need to SELL it at all costs ..."
Yes, i understand that it might look confusing to people. It is however a mainstream tactic of generating income. The profitability of the user attracting product is not the main concern, as it is not where the income comes from. If you do not plan to purchase further games from Beamdog, than they have failed already, and there will be no Bg3.
Also
X-blades costs $30 (24E) on Beamdog
X-blades costs $24 (19E) on Steam
Seriously.
Your last statement is akin to your previous statement calling the Beamdog team lazy. You have no idea what Beamdog's internal financial situation is, neither do I. Furthermore, I am not predictive of the overall success or failure of Beamdog's marketing. Perhaps many other people will purchase several other games from Beamdog. This is really immaterial to our discussion, however. Your original supposition was that there was no reason to use Beamdog; I don't want to repeat myself so I'll just point you back to my previous post.