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Dragon Disciple in BG2:EE

24

Comments

  • wesleytcongwesleytcong Member Posts: 2
    Dragons, depending on type, tends to represent a certain element. Red Dragon - fire, Blue Dragon - Ice, Shadow Dragon - Necromancy, Green Dragon - Acid & Poison? ..etc. Here, our dragon disciple only has fire protection, so, is this kit a red dragon disciple? If so, i hope the devs change the name kit name OR allow players to choose a certain color of the dragon disciple, i.e.,

    Red - Fire; Blue - lightning; Green - poison; Black - Acid; White - Cold;

    Adv
    1) HD6 instead of HD4
    2) +1 AC at level 3; +1 AC every 5 levels
    3) +10% resistance to slashing, crushing, and piercing damage at level 4; +5% every 4 levels (max 40%)
    4) +25% Magic resistance at level 3; +5% every 4 levels (max 50%)
    5) Immunity to morale-based spells, domination-based spells, sleep, blindness, silence, deafness, paralysis, backstab, movement-based spells, level drain, disease,
    6) Element resistance - 25% at level 5; 50% at level 10; immunity at level 20
    7) Class abilities
    - Breath weapon (based on elements)
    - 2d6 at level 3; 3d6 - level 6; 3d8 - level 9; 4d8 - level 12; 4d10 - level 15; 5d10 - level 20;
    5d12 - level 25
    - Once a day at level 3; +1 additional use a day every 5 levels
    - Enchant weapon
    - Weapon is now a +1 at level 5; +1 every 5 levels
    - Weapon deals +1d4 additional (selected) element damage at level 3; numerator +1 every 5 levels
    8) One less spell per level per day compensated with one free (selected) element spell per level, for eg:
    Red Dragon Disciple - Burning hands, Aganazar's Scorcher, Fireball, Flame Arrow, Fireshield...etc
    Blue Dragon Disciple - Shocking Grasp, Call Lightning, Lightning bolt, chain lightning,
    Green Dragon Disciple - Stinking cloud, cloud kill,


    Disadv
    1) One less spell per level per day
    2) Cannot use magical weapons
    3) Cannot wear magical armor (apart from rings, amulets, belts, stones)

    booinyoureyeselminster
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,207
    @wesleytcong

    Something like what you are saying his been requested. There might be another feature request like this link but this is the first one I found :)

    http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/21010/dragon-disciple-alteration-letting-us-choose-the-color

  • mylegbigmylegbig Member Posts: 292
    More uses of breath weapon and giving a strength bonus instead of a con bonus should be enough.

    mjs
  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,162

    Dragons, depending on type, tends to represent a certain element. Red Dragon - fire, Blue Dragon - Ice, Shadow Dragon - Necromancy, Green Dragon - Acid & Poison? ..etc. Here, our dragon disciple only has fire protection, so, is this kit a red dragon disciple? If so, i hope the devs change the name kit name OR allow players to choose a certain color of the dragon disciple, i.e.,

    Red - Fire; Blue - lightning; Green - poison; Black - Acid; White - Cold;

    Adv
    1) HD6 instead of HD4
    2) +1 AC at level 3; +1 AC every 5 levels
    3) +10% resistance to slashing, crushing, and piercing damage at level 4; +5% every 4 levels (max 40%)
    4) +25% Magic resistance at level 3; +5% every 4 levels (max 50%)
    5) Immunity to morale-based spells, domination-based spells, sleep, blindness, silence, deafness, paralysis, backstab, movement-based spells, level drain, disease,
    6) Element resistance - 25% at level 5; 50% at level 10; immunity at level 20
    7) Class abilities
    - Breath weapon (based on elements)
    - 2d6 at level 3; 3d6 - level 6; 3d8 - level 9; 4d8 - level 12; 4d10 - level 15; 5d10 - level 20;
    5d12 - level 25
    - Once a day at level 3; +1 additional use a day every 5 levels
    - Enchant weapon
    - Weapon is now a +1 at level 5; +1 every 5 levels
    - Weapon deals +1d4 additional (selected) element damage at level 3; numerator +1 every 5 levels
    8) One less spell per level per day compensated with one free (selected) element spell per level, for eg:
    Red Dragon Disciple - Burning hands, Aganazar's Scorcher, Fireball, Flame Arrow, Fireshield...etc
    Blue Dragon Disciple - Shocking Grasp, Call Lightning, Lightning bolt, chain lightning,
    Green Dragon Disciple - Stinking cloud, cloud kill,


    Disadv
    1) One less spell per level per day
    2) Cannot use magical weapons
    3) Cannot wear magical armor (apart from rings, amulets, belts, stones)

    I love this. Overpowered... but who cares you're the God Damn Batm.... err Bhaalspawn! You freakin' SHOULD be overpowered, and at least better than any npc (edwin you cheater!)

    Quartz
  • Nic_MercyNic_Mercy Member Posts: 405
    I like the idea of further benefits for Dragon Disciples but not to the extent that some of the posters are suggesting. For me I'd find the following acceptable and balanced:

    I would not let AC or Con continue to advance beyond what is already the default

    Fear Immunity at some level (probably by lvl 15 the latest) makes a great deal of sense.

    Continued advancement of fire resistance until it reaches 100% (by level 20 the latest) also makes sense

    Some sort of Dragon Disciple specific HLA that isn't a spell that gets added to the spellbook but rather a "once a day" type of ability (that can get multiple uses with more choosings of the ability). What that ability does I haven't really thought out. But something dragon related for thematic reasons.

    It might also not be unreasonable to include the warrior HLA's Hardiness and Resist Magic. This seems more reasonable than just giving passive "always on" boosts to magic resistance/damage resistance and adds a "cost" in HLA picks but also gives additional options on what to spend HLA picks. These HLA options not only add variety that ordinary sorcerers don't have but also give the player the option for more sturdiness to at least give something to make up for less high level spell casts.


    I would also like to see Dragon Disciple kits added for the other main dragon colors so people can be more alignment appropriate. Obviously different colors would get different resistances and breath damage but otherwise they could remain the same. It's not like sorcerers have an abundance of kits right now anyways.

  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,162
    edited November 2013
    I think it would be super cool if Dragon Disciple had been a bard class with better melee and perhaps instead of songs you can have different kinds of breath attacks

    Anteros
  • GamingFreakGamingFreak Member Posts: 639
    Really the worst part about the kit is that you only get 1 breath attack per day. That's it. I mean more damage is great and all, but only having one use before resting? And that's the only thing you get? That's pretty lame.

    booinyoureyesQuartzelminster
  • DragonspearDragonspear Member Posts: 1,835
    Just skimming through but if I could do any one change..........I'd open up more weapon proficiencies to DDs. Maybe I just enjoy melee too much =/ (Or would rather pew pew with something other than sling or dart)

    booinyoureyes
  • RajickRajick Member Posts: 207
    To all of you who want to turn into a dragon why not just ask for dragonborn as a playable race makes a hell of a lot more sence for them to do that then put in potentially game braking ability of turning into a dragon/summoning a dragon

  • ghostowlghostowl Member Posts: 171
    I would never play dragon disciple without some kind of improvement on the kit...one of those gimmicky kits that was solely made for the purpose of BG1:EE I bet.

    atakdog
  • MungriMungri Member Posts: 1,645
    The buffs they currently get are still worth the minor tradeoff.

    elminster
  • SpaceInvaderSpaceInvader Member Posts: 2,125
    Mungri said:

    The buffs they currently get are still worth the minor tradeoff.

    Unfortunately, they are not.

    booinyoureyesKamigoroshiQuartz
  • mylegbigmylegbig Member Posts: 292
    To be fair, kits aren't really supposed to make the vanilla class obsolete, although that is often the case. I don't really mind that the vanilla sorc is stronger than the DD. The only thing that bothers is that the extra constitution points just don't make much sense considering how little the sorc benefits from them. Hell, even wisdom or charisma would be more useful. Yea, you can start the game with 14 con to make the most of it, but that means having to gimp yourself early game.

  • AnterosAnteros Member Posts: 37
    A kit should at least allow to experience some kind of play style variation. The Dragon Disciple as it is, doesn't. The bonuses iven by the class have a lot less impact on the way it will be played than the spell selection.
    With its increased hit dies and breath weapon, it could have been played as a hit an run kit, except the breath weapon can only be used 1/day.
    With the increased defense, it could have been a gish kit, except for the abysmal mage thac0.
    In the end, the Dragon Disciple will be played exactly like the vanilla Sorcerer, which is really unfortunate given what the kit could have been if more thought had been given to its elaboration.

    booinyoureyesJonelethIrenicus
  • jukagajukaga Member Posts: 49
    Rolled a DD last night, with my personal 'addition' by going into keeper and giving myself an extra breath weapon use every 3 levels. This is also my first evil run, loving it so far. The kit is dripping with flavour. Does Firkraag or any other dragon comment on your class?

  • abacusabacus Member Posts: 1,308
    edited November 2013
    If you started BG:EE with 18 Con, and achieved all available bonuses, what Con would you get to? Would there be any regeneration by ToB levels? I know there's the "wasted" stat points in between, but it's not like sorcerer types *need* too much elsewhere anyway..
    Just curious as I don't know the mechanics.

  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,207
    edited November 2013
    abacus said:

    If you started BG:EE with 18 Con, and achieved all available bonuses, what Con would you get to? Would there be any regeneration by ToB levels? I know there's the "wasted" stat points in between, but it's not like sorcerer types *need* too much elsewhere anyway..
    Just curious as I don't know the mechanics.

    I believe it would be 24. Anyways, that would provide 1 hp/20 second regeneration.

  • KurumiKurumi Member Posts: 520
    abacus said:

    If you started BG:EE with 18 Con, and achieved all available bonuses, what Con would you get to? Would there be any regeneration by ToB levels? I know there's the "wasted" stat points in between, but it's not like sorcerer types *need* too much elsewhere anyway..
    Just curious as I don't know the mechanics.

    Well.. let's see 18 Con +1 (Tome from BG) +2 (DD) +2 (Fear Tear[Evil]) +1 (TOB) = 24. Regen starts with Con 20 and improves from there.

  • mjsmjs Member Posts: 742
    +1 for the CON ioun stone (unless mages can't use it?)

  • abacusabacus Member Posts: 1,308
    Ok, some benefit then, but nothing dramatic.
    Thanks for the edification :)

  • KurumiKurumi Member Posts: 520
    mjs said:

    +1 for the CON ioun stone (unless mages can't use it?)

    They can use it (it's the Obsidian Ioun Stone), but arcane magic users certainly have better things to wear than that :) - and with 'that' I even don't mean the Pearly White Ioun Stone which already gives 2HP/Turn regen..

  • YllibYllib Member Posts: 11
    One advantage that no one seems to have mentioned is being able to drop multiple meteor swarms/incendiary clouds onto a zone and watch everything burn (only really good if soloing though). Throw on a ring/robe of fire resistance and you'll be getting healed pretty quickly. Or just take the good path in hell that gives resistances (can't remember which one it is) to save the slots for better items. Follow up with delayed-blast fireballs etc.

    Cain contingency - 3x incendiary cloud - nearest enemy on sight
    Improved alacrity
    Spam delayed-blast fireball and regular fireball
    Throw in breath weapon, dragon breath, meteor swarm, comet etc. as you please

    I realise there are more effective ways to clear large groups of enemies but it would be an interesting way to play, drawing people away from the more "standard" high level sorcerer spell picks.

    JonelethIrenicusbooinyoureyes
  • Dragonfolk2000Dragonfolk2000 Member Posts: 343
    As I have mentioned before: I would like to see the option of choosing other dragon colors other than red. I feel the class is fine the way it is but having unique HLA could help it a little in the end game. What gets really underestimated is the 100% resistance to fire, which is quite useful. The most common element that you tend to encounter is fire so the immunity helps.

  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,162
    one breath attack for every two spells per day lost for a grand total of 4 breath attacks/day

  • YllibYllib Member Posts: 11
    edited December 2013
    One thing I noticed when testing out the incendiary cloud chain contingency in ToB is that you actually end up getting 4 points to con. Not sure if this is intended or a bug (probably a bug as it isn't in the kit description). While most people playing from the beginning wouldn't want to start with 10-12 con, if starting from ToB it does give you more flexibility with stat allocation.

    I think even just giving them a use for the extra con would be enough to make the class a bit more attractive, such as the fighter-class HP bonus or shorty saves, as others have said. Maybe even their own special set of save bonuses. As right now it's pretty much pointless.

    elminster
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,207
    edited December 2013
    Yea I've only been able to repeat that Dragon Disciple bug (with the constitution) some of the time.

  • LaceLace Member Posts: 74
    If the problem with DD is that it loses out on high level spells, maybe cap the spell loss at level 5 or so? That is, DD has 1 less spell use over the vanilla sorc up to level 5. Then, you don't lose out on extra high level casts.

    This fix is similar to the cleric wis spell bonus, so it isn't without precedent.

  • DrEastDrEast Member Posts: 113
    What makes the Dragon Disciple king of the solo-run is the fire resistance. Druids get this too, so people tend to undervalue it, but druids can't heal from it and damage enemies at the same time. Throw a Fire Shield: Red in (which most sorcerers will nab anyway) and a DD can rock the mid-levels fairly easily.

    End of the day, you're sacrificing some "kill more" ability at the end of the game for better early-to-mid play. I'll take that trade, especially when 18 wisdom is so easy to get, allowing for you to refresh all spells off of wish anyway (resulting in no real downside).

  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,207
    DrEast said:

    What makes the Dragon Disciple king of the solo-run is the fire resistance. Druids get this too, so people tend to undervalue it, but druids can't heal from it and damage enemies at the same time.

    Unless of course they have Firestorm.

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