@kurumi I love the name Rage Mage... it should be a band
Hehe.. yes.. always loved that term so much, too and agree.. would be really a cool band name !! As a funny sidenote there actually is a Rage Mage Prestige Class which was released with the "Complete Warrior" Supplement for 3e PnP.
As long as I can do that, i'm pretty sure F/M/T is by VERY VERY VERY VERY far the best build ever.
The synergy between the 3 classes is SO HUGE, and there is no downside to it if you solo.
This is the very first time i'm playing BG2 and i'm playing it on Insane but i've never been hit once, the character is far too strong.
The only thing non legit in my playthrough is the removed xp cap, i broke it juste a bit earlier so no BBoD in a vanilla game. But as you can imagine, it wouldn't change anythings to the absurd amount of dammage you can do while being so tanky.
Here goes Irenicus in a single Time Stop Trap HLA.
As long as I can do that, i'm pretty sure F/M/T is by VERY VERY VERY VERY far the best build ever.
Mage/Cleric/Thief is the real destroyer of worlds. You can do EVERYTHING AND WEAR EVERYTHING BU NO BLADED WEAPONS aka AMAZING!!!!!!! And Irenicus just has 96 Hit Points so there is no need to be so cheesy, just a spike trap and some normal thief traps will do wonders.
As long as I can do that, i'm pretty sure F/M/T is by VERY VERY VERY VERY far the best build ever.
Mage/Cleric/Thief is the real destroyer of worlds. You can do EVERYTHING AND WEAR EVERYTHING BU NO BLADED WEAPONS aka AMAZING!!!!!!! And Irenicus just has 96 Hit Points so there is no need to be so cheesy, just a spike trap and some normal thief traps will do wonders.
How would one obtain this class without cheating (aka EEKeeper)? It's not a legit multi-class combo in any of the PnP rules AFAIK.
As long as I can do that, i'm pretty sure F/M/T is by VERY VERY VERY VERY far the best build ever.
Mage/Cleric/Thief is the real destroyer of worlds. You can do EVERYTHING AND WEAR EVERYTHING BU NO BLADED WEAPONS aka AMAZING!!!!!!! And Irenicus just has 96 Hit Points so there is no need to be so cheesy, just a spike trap and some normal thief traps will do wonders.
How would one obtain this class without cheating (aka EEKeeper)? It's not a legit multi-class combo in any of the PnP rules AFAIK.
It's impossible without cheating. And it wouldn't be that great (No Fighter means bad APR and thac0 and no Fighter HLA).
He maybe was speaking of F/M/C, while it is good (and really good without XPcap) i think it is significantly less good than F/M/T.
I know he don't exist anywhere including PnP, but what I was saying is that it is the cheesiest multiclass ever. And after that one Mage/Thief, Tenser's Transformation in a chain contingency (with Improved Haste and a Sunfire for extra damage set at see enemy) besides an early Assassination thief HLA, and after all that cast Black Blade of Disaster, or dual-wield Kundane and Belm for lower off-hand THAC0, but you shouldn't worry because you'll get an awesome THAC0 from Tenser's and other items you are wearing. Also you can use the Tuigan bow on SoA with tthe thingie of infinite +1 arrows (Quiver of Plenty) and Improved haste, that should do, and it is named Adamantine Golem slayer if you use +3 arrows and ran in circles shooting continuously. No to mention what happens when a F/T gets HLAs he can easily reach physical damage immunity, and magic resistance 100% if your Carsomyr+6 has the Increment MR flag instead of setting it at 50%, what if you use Fighter (useless until now) HLA Magic Resistance, you can become totally invulnerable to all the types of damage excluding Sunfires and MR bypassing attacks.
But if you're not part Fighter, you're only going to get 4 APR with dual +APR weapons and 3 with BBoD + APR weapon (even though BBoD carry it's own GM, if you're not Fighter you don't gain any APR), so 8/6 with IH, and still no Critical Strike HLA if i'm not mistaking. Tenser's Transformation is also risky because it disable your casting abilities (100% sure it does in EE) so you won't be able to cast anymore while still being inferior to F/M/T melee wise.
A F/T won't be able to cast IH himself, or be able to cast Stoneskin, Breach etc so it will be subpar.
Not to mention that one big plus for F/M/T is that you can pick locks and disarm traps, which is really good because to get enough xp you will need to solo. So not only you'll be able to solo, but you'll gain additionnal xp from scrolls and locks/traps.
PS : The cheesiest combo ever is with XP Cap removed, Improved Alacrity followed by Assassination + Critical Strike in the same round, you're going to hit for 450 dammages 9 times a round.
If we are talking about cheesiest class combo which can only be obtained by cheating then surely F/M/T/C would trump all? Completely illegal and totally unstoppable.
A possible candidate for best build is gnome fighter/illusionist. At least with the SCS-option that makes wizard HLAs 1/day abilities. Both fighter and wizard HLA, and many more and earlier HLAs than Kensai/Mage. Also, as a gnome, you get superior saving throws.
To whoever thinks that the best HLA for Fighters is Greater Weapon Whirlwind... what? It's called Critical Strike. With Improved Haste you get 8 attacks, all hit, all crit. GWW is chump change compared to that.
Anyways, for the best *possible* character, I'd go with the (gnome) Mage/Thief.
Level 9 spells - You can't skip out on the level 9s for "most optimal". x5 Backstab 19 HLAs (Fighter/Illusionist gets 18, Kensai -> Mage gets 11) Detect Illusions is epic. Traps. Spike Traps are 20D6, no save, no MR, no weapon immunities. Time Traps? Timestop without a level 9 spell slot. Even basic snares are great at high levels. Free grabs of any item in the game. Free specialisation in one of the two best Mage Specialisations.
More importantly, party utility, the mage/thief can pick any lock, pop any trap, and generally supply everything a party might need, whilst still supplying the full archmage.
All on top of shorty saves against wands and spells, two of the nastier ones in the game.
Melee is very.... "heroic", and looks impressive, but like gnomes themselves, in terms of optimisation "looking good" is not the be all and end all of the best possible character.
I'd be open to arguments for Mage/Clerics as well, but the easy 50% MR and other utility options the thief class brings to the table probably outweigh the Cleric spells for me, even with Sequencer abuse.
While i do agree that Gnome illusionist/thief are really good, i don't think they are the best possible character. Of course it is always subjective and depend of your party, your game etc. But i want to point out that this character doesn't have the fighter APR and Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting is not available so it will probably lacks dammages.
I don't know divine magic enough to discuss good sequencers combos for Mage/Clerics, but it sounds powerful.
Sequencers and Contingencies are really worth key mapping, since that will make the unlimited
Then, I said that M/T was the best one only because there is no M/C/T, either way I find save vs. Death more useful, since non-fighters classes don't have a much high save vs. death and also an Elven M/T can go well, since it has even more DEX that can give him more ranged THAC0, we will have resistances to certain deadly spells while soloing and while fighting wizard and fighters. Also a Mage/Druid could do wonders on BG2, and not to mention, again, an illegal thing like M/D/T.
While i do agree that Gnome illusionist/thief are really good, i don't think they are the best possible character. Of course it is always subjective and depend of your party, your game etc. But i want to point out that this character doesn't have the fighter APR and Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting is not available so it will probably lacks dammages.
I don't know divine magic enough to discuss good sequencers combos for Mage/Clerics, but it sounds powerful.
Whilst I consider damage to be the least useful ability of a mage, Mage/Thief isn't devoid of offence.
A single backstab with a Staff of Striking is 50 damage minimum. Mislead abuse is both possible, and unfair, in this case. 100+ damage per round with normal haste isn't bad. Spike Traps average 70 Damage. Each. Regular Snares deal 39 damage average, each. With a Save or Die attached. Incendiary Cloud lasts for a minute, dealing 1D4/level per round. The second round it does damage, it's outdamaged Horrid Wilting with an average damage of 100 vs 90. Polymorph Self: Sword Spider, follow up with Sequencer abuse for Improved Haste, Strength x2 to give yourself 10 spider attacks at 18/00 Strength. That's avoiding Ghoul Touch, since that gets a little squiffy.
Against Fire Immune enemies there may be a minor problem (though since Traps work against magic immunity, Thief/Mage gets the edge in most encounters), but you're talking about a mage, so call up a Planetar and cackle a lot, or carry around some scrolls of Horrid Wilting - UAI I believe works on them too.
There's not much in it between an Illusionist/Thief and an Elven Mage/Thief, but an extra spell at every level means an extra cast of Improved Alacrity, an extra Simulacrum....
As long as I can do that, i'm pretty sure F/M/T is by VERY VERY VERY VERY far the best build ever.
The synergy between the 3 classes is SO HUGE, and there is no downside to it if you solo.
This is the very first time i'm playing BG2 and i'm playing it on Insane but i've never been hit once, the character is far too strong.
The only thing non legit in my playthrough is the removed xp cap, i broke it juste a bit earlier so no BBoD in a vanilla game. But as you can imagine, it wouldn't change anythings to the absurd amount of dammage you can do while being so tanky.
Here goes Irenicus in a single Time Stop Trap HLA.
I agree.
I remember back in the day, when I backstabbed and killed a dragon with one hit (BGII vanilla). It somewhat ruined the game for me tho, I realized im a demigod and nothing can really hurt me... so I put down the game for a few decades...
Thus I have a love-hate relation with this "class".
Im somewhat surprised by the love the gnomes are getting, when elves are immune to allot of things and get bonuses to useful non-sling weapons.
@Ogaburan Elves only have charm and sleep resistance. Charm resistance is useful in BG1 but not so much in BG2 while sleep resistance just isn't that useful. In comparison the +5 bonus to saves from constitution that gnomes and other shorties get is far superior, and importantly they get a further +2 bonus to saves vs spells.
Unless your game is solo/small party/exp cap removed, I don't think FMT is all that great.
I agree, in a 6 man group he wont be that useful, but the "best character" does not need 5 guys to slow him down.
I never tried it as a gnome, and probbaly wont... coz being a demi-god is not that enjoyable for me. But I cant think of anything more devastating than killing a dragon with "technically" one hit...
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f/m/t maybe
f/m/c maybe
I love the name Rage Mage... it should be a band
As a funny sidenote there actually is a Rage Mage Prestige Class which was released with the "Complete Warrior" Supplement for 3e PnP.
I'm gonna make a character that takes a level in every class!!!!!!!!!!!
...and name him Noober
The synergy between the 3 classes is SO HUGE, and there is no downside to it if you solo.
This is the very first time i'm playing BG2 and i'm playing it on Insane but i've never been hit once, the character is far too strong.
The only thing non legit in my playthrough is the removed xp cap, i broke it juste a bit earlier so no BBoD in a vanilla game. But as you can imagine, it wouldn't change anythings to the absurd amount of dammage you can do while being so tanky.
Here goes Irenicus in a single Time Stop Trap HLA.
And Irenicus just has 96 Hit Points so there is no need to be so cheesy, just a spike trap and some normal thief traps will do wonders.
He maybe was speaking of F/M/C, while it is good (and really good without XPcap) i think it is significantly less good than F/M/T.
And after that one Mage/Thief, Tenser's Transformation in a chain contingency (with Improved Haste and a Sunfire for extra damage set at see enemy) besides an early Assassination thief HLA, and after all that cast Black Blade of Disaster, or dual-wield Kundane and Belm
A F/T won't be able to cast IH himself, or be able to cast Stoneskin, Breach etc so it will be subpar.
Not to mention that one big plus for F/M/T is that you can pick locks and disarm traps, which is really good because to get enough xp you will need to solo. So not only you'll be able to solo, but you'll gain additionnal xp from scrolls and locks/traps.
PS : The cheesiest combo ever is with XP Cap removed, Improved Alacrity followed by Assassination + Critical Strike in the same round, you're going to hit for 450 dammages 9 times a round.
Anyways, for the best *possible* character, I'd go with the (gnome) Mage/Thief.
Level 9 spells - You can't skip out on the level 9s for "most optimal".
x5 Backstab
19 HLAs (Fighter/Illusionist gets 18, Kensai -> Mage gets 11)
Detect Illusions is epic.
Traps. Spike Traps are 20D6, no save, no MR, no weapon immunities. Time Traps? Timestop without a level 9 spell slot. Even basic snares are great at high levels.
Free grabs of any item in the game.
Free specialisation in one of the two best Mage Specialisations.
More importantly, party utility, the mage/thief can pick any lock, pop any trap, and generally supply everything a party might need, whilst still supplying the full archmage.
All on top of shorty saves against wands and spells, two of the nastier ones in the game.
Melee is very.... "heroic", and looks impressive, but like gnomes themselves, in terms of optimisation "looking good" is not the be all and end all of the best possible character.
I'd be open to arguments for Mage/Clerics as well, but the easy 50% MR and other utility options the thief class brings to the table probably outweigh the Cleric spells for me, even with Sequencer abuse.
I don't know divine magic enough to discuss good sequencers combos for Mage/Clerics, but it sounds powerful.
Then, I said that M/T was the best one only because there is no M/C/T, either way I find save vs. Death more useful, since non-fighters classes don't have a much high save vs. death and also an Elven M/T can go well, since it has even more DEX that can give him more ranged THAC0, we will have resistances to certain deadly spells while soloing and while fighting wizard and fighters.
Also a Mage/Druid could do wonders on BG2, and not to mention, again, an illegal thing like M/D/T.
A single backstab with a Staff of Striking is 50 damage minimum. Mislead abuse is both possible, and unfair, in this case. 100+ damage per round with normal haste isn't bad.
Spike Traps average 70 Damage. Each.
Regular Snares deal 39 damage average, each. With a Save or Die attached.
Incendiary Cloud lasts for a minute, dealing 1D4/level per round. The second round it does damage, it's outdamaged Horrid Wilting with an average damage of 100 vs 90.
Polymorph Self: Sword Spider, follow up with Sequencer abuse for Improved Haste, Strength x2 to give yourself 10 spider attacks at 18/00 Strength. That's avoiding Ghoul Touch, since that gets a little squiffy.
Against Fire Immune enemies there may be a minor problem (though since Traps work against magic immunity, Thief/Mage gets the edge in most encounters), but you're talking about a mage, so call up a Planetar and cackle a lot, or carry around some scrolls of Horrid Wilting - UAI I believe works on them too.
There's not much in it between an Illusionist/Thief and an Elven Mage/Thief, but an extra spell at every level means an extra cast of Improved Alacrity, an extra Simulacrum....
I remember back in the day, when I backstabbed and killed a dragon with one hit (BGII vanilla).
It somewhat ruined the game for me tho, I realized im a demigod and nothing can really hurt me... so I put down the game for a few decades...
Thus I have a love-hate relation with this "class".
Im somewhat surprised by the love the gnomes are getting, when elves are immune to allot of things and get bonuses to useful non-sling weapons.
Unless your game is solo/small party/exp cap removed, I don't think FMT is all that great.
Shorty saves gives you +2 to the according saves, and this bonus can be as high as +5 if you have 18 Constitution.
I agree that FMT is not all that great in a 6 man party. He would still be pretty useful, being an actual thief who can fight and use some buffs.
I never tried it as a gnome, and probbaly wont... coz being a demi-god is not that enjoyable for me.
But I cant think of anything more devastating than killing a dragon with "technically" one hit...