@elminster - When looking simply at casting ability, you get more for your money from Xzar. He'll reach the highest wisdom AND the level 3 mage spell. Sure there are more Wands of Fire than you'll ever need, but it does come in handy to have an extra Dispel or Thrust. And look at the cleric spells. Dynaheir gets a free Cure Poison via ability... where Xzar gets maximum wisdom and several extra spells you can select, and Cure Poison is, outside Cloakwood, certainly the least of my concerns.
I have to plan more with Dynaheir, give her 2 tomes, of which I get one fairly late, and get less out of it. I'm not saying Dynaheir is a bad NPC or useless either way. It's just way less convenient to dual her and has less payout than the easy dual on Xzar.
The loss of enchantment spells is pretty huge. Missing Greater Malison alone is enough reason to strongly consider another mage. At low levels she misses Sleep too, which is pretty criminal.
I have used Dynaheir extensively as I often use good parties and she's the only Good-aligned non-dual mage. Because of her I actually didn't realise how good low-level enchantment spells were because I rarely got to use them. When I finally discovered that Sleep is the frikkin' bomb, the go-to level 1 spell that incapacitates all those nasty hobgoblin elites, enemy adventurers etc. I was shocked and overjoyed.
I terms of personality I don't mind her. She's okay, and most BG1 NPCs are pretty faceless.
I tolerate Dynaheir. I really don't like Lawful Good characters and shes just a little holier than thou. Gameplay wise, shes ok. I dont mind that shes an Invoker, better than Enchanter in my personal opinion and the spells that she cant cast I usually have myself or another being able to cast them. Stat wise shes ok.
@Eudaemonium I know, and the point I'm trying to make is that Anomen is not well-written. Nalia, Jaheira and Keldorn all in their own way represent pride and/or status as a hindrance or idiosyncracy that can conflict with doing or seeing the most prudent point of view. Anomen is, as you say, vile, but in such a way that goes far beyond believable character discrepancy.
While I saw your point in that post, I still have to disagree. It's pretty clear that he tries to be an honorable knight and all but with all his familial drama combined with his own nature (he enjoys fighting, just listen to his line while in a dungeon ... a tad bit overly excited, I would say), he is going to totally explode sometimes like he does on Jaheira and Mazzy. He's a wrathful person. You've honestly never seen someone seemingly 'uncharacteristically' explode on you once in a while?
Once his family drama is settled and he feels less like he has to try overly hard to prove himself all the time (this is mostly where he runs into problems), he's a pretty nice guy. Not surprising at all if you ask me.
I like black women and her being the only one in the whole series, I cannot dislike her. I also like her demeanor, she's one of the few classy characters you meet.
I couldn't vote for "I dislike Dynaheir: she is arrogant and unappreciative" because that's just characterization. If you hone a passionate dislike for a character for their attitude, that's called good writing. *COUGH!* ANOMEN *COUGH!*
That said, Dynaheir is pretty boring. She has some interesting backstory to share, particularly if you charm her before picking her up, but other than that, she's just dull to have around. Her interaction with other characters is very limited and yawn-inducing besides.
I hated Anomen (and still hating his attitude) till Ifound out how OP he could get in ToB, and he is the only good alogned Cleric in the game (both neutral and good).
She just strikes me as pretty meh. I'm usually not interested in her being in my party. I like the voice acting. I just never find the need for a wimpy mage when Edwin and the more interesting Xan is around. I find I don't need a mage a lot in the first Baldur's Gate.
Poor Dynaheir - if you aren't going to have an 18 intelligence at least have a reasonable dex for AC and tossing stones. And yes, if you aren't memorizing 8+ Sleep spells with your Ring of Wizardry you are missing out on one of the most effective CC spells in BG1.
I like her personality and her mini-banters, but she is by far the worst mage in the game. If you don't want to dual Imoen, both Xan and Quayle are much better mage choices for a good party, especially now that EE gives neutral NPCs some "good" responses at high reps.
You don't have to memorize Sleep. Just use the wand. It casts faster too, and can't be interrupted. Having the spell saves you money, but it's not a deal breaker if you can't get it.
Anyways, she can cast Magic Missile and Web and Haste so she's a good enough mage for me. I'd take her over Xan, though neither of them are high on my list.
You don't have to memorize Sleep. Just use the wand. It casts faster too, and can't be interrupted. Having the spell saves you money, but it's not a deal breaker if you can't get it.
Yeah when I played seriously with Dynaheir, she didn't feel too gimped ... until she hit Level 7. There are a ridiculous number of awesome Enchantment spells at mage spell levels 4 and 5.
She's pretty much meh, both mechanically and personality wise. Come to think of it I find her accent annoying after a while too... but I don't dislike or like her and that was the closest to neutral. As a hardcore Edwin fan who refuses to leave him out of a single playthrough, I usually just kill her rather than listen to the bickering.
I do prefer having two mages around, since I need someone to cast Identify and once the levels start to pick up the firepower is very useful. I tend to go with Xan. Like @Quartz said, high-level Enchantment spells. Pile some of those on and get Edwin throwing every attack spell in the book and the enemies are SOL. Plus Moonblade you guys.
You don't have to memorize Sleep. Just use the wand. It casts faster too, and can't be interrupted. Having the spell saves you money, but it's not a deal breaker if you can't get it.
Yeah when I played seriously with Dynaheir, she didn't feel too gimped ... until she hit Level 7. There are a ridiculous number of awesome Enchantment spells at mage spell levels 4 and 5.
Good point, though I can't say I miss them much because the game is nearly over for me. Let's see, there's Emotion, Greater Malison, Chaos... all useful spells and I can see why that turns people off. Still, she has a lot of great options for those slots.
The problem with Dynaheir is that she is perpetually in Minsc's shadow. She is not only a "damsel in distress" but also the "straight man" to the comedic Minsc. It is made even worse by her being part of a NPC duo that is all about polar opposites. The pairs of Xzar and Montaron or even Jaheira and Khalid complement each other without pushing the other into the background.
Her bio is basically a description about Minsc with any Dynaheir centric background being described as a mystery. Even her "charmed" dialog is rather vague but offers unfulfilled potential. While Minsc spends his time in BG2 grieving and going with the flow, I wonder if Dynaheir would have been more proactive or influential in the unfolding events of the Bhaalspawn. She would have provided great counsel to Charname and Imoen, almost to that of Gorion if he had lived. Especially since she is one of the few NPCs to actually have any foreknowledge of the Bhaalspawn.
We have to note also that she didn't get the BG2 treatment that Minsc did, so she's always going to lose when it comes to "character depth". That's because she was never given the chance to grow. But even as a BG1 character she is pretty much a blank canvas.
That being said, I quite like her and prefer her greatly over Minsc. I really regret what they did to her in BG2. Nalia tries to fill her void somewhat but she is vastly inferior. I would have preferred her BG2 story to unfold as her being left to die after the ambush that led Charname & co to Irenicus' lair. Then flip roles around by having her be the one to rescue and locate Minsc. Having her travel through the wilderness a bit without her guardian would have done her some good.
As for her role as an Evoker, she could have been a Diviner and I wouldn't have cared. But then again I always recruit Eldoth and Garrick...
I agree that Minsc really overshadowed Dynaheir, and to be honest if not as a party member, I could Dynaheir making a quest appearance, wherein her duty to investigate the Bhaalspawn Crisis is examined more: much like the Harpers that hound the PC & Jaheira, I feel as though Dynaheir could have had a quest that reacted in some way to the protagonist as a good influence, or as a dangerous one that needs stopped. But, again, that would have required Minsc not being with the party, and being one of the most popular NPCs in the game Dynaheir was always going to be negotiating for a smaller role in the sequel.
@Mordeus, you do offer a really interesting suggestion of what could have happened to Dynaheir in BG2 if Minsc had instead been killed off. I suppose her survival would have also come as a conflict of interests with the continuation of Edwin's character, but when I think about it probably no more than Minsc did.
Dynaheir is not my favorite mage. That would be Xan! Nevertheless, Dyna has been part of some successful parties, with and without Minsc. She was a pair with Minsc, and I believe she was the stronger of the pair. Yes, I said what I said! I left Minsc to his fate with the Gnolls more often than I would Dyna.
The first time you meet Minsc he is the very definition of obtuse. If you recruit him he then holds his breath and stomps his feet if you do not do as he asks, when he is not babbling away to himself or his pet hampster. He will even attack the party, not just leave, when he decides it has been too long. That's if he manages to control his berserker nature long enough to actually get there.
I've never quite gotten over a terrible first impression of Minsc, where he was nothing but an annoying hindrance.
@Mordeus Very well-said. I think you pretty much nailed the reason my feelings on her are 'meh'. She had so much potential and in the end was reduced to just a sidekick for Minsc and an annoyingly unexplained, half-arsed reason to get Edwin out of Thay and into the party. In short, her purpose is really nothing more than a prop for the franchise's two most popular NPCs to be included.
I generally don't say anything because everyone seems to love Minsc, but I think his character is hands-down the stupidest part of the entire series. And yes, that includes Xzar, and the over-the-top aspects of Edwin and his quests (ie Edwina, perpetually plotting out loud, his purely comedic relief epilogue). This is coming from, as I've stated multiple times, an avid fan of Edwin.
Basically what I'm getting at is that comedy is most certainly welcome in any storyline, but when the entire character is just a joke I cannot get past it in a genre like D&D, where I expect there to be some level of seriousness and genuine character development. I don't know about anyone else's groups, but if any of my past DMs had someone come to them with a character that talked and acted like Minsc with all his ridiculous crap and Boo for an animal companion, they would have told them to make a new character. My first DM might have told someone with a character like Xzar or Edwin to tone it down, but my second probably would have let it slide. Xan too. Come to think of it, the developers really seemed to make the mages all a bit ridiculous, so that in itself may have overshadowed poor Dynaheir, being the only wholly serious one.
Man, now I want a mod that does something with her. When I first started playing and discovered if I grabbed her first I could have both her and Edwin, I had devised all sorts of headcanons to try and develop her more, because I did see potential in her. When I found out they were just going to off her without more than a mention in BG2, I just gave up.
@SassyGoldElf Normally in my roleplaying games we make more serious characters and try to tell a real story. Once in a while I would run what I dubbed a "Zany Campaign" to get all the silliness out of our systems. They never lasted very long and the characters ranged from being quite silly (but might make the cut into a normal game) to ludicrous (a gnome wizard with 1 Strength, who traveled in a wheelchair and whose assistants carried poles attached to his hands to make the somatic gestures for him; this at one point led to the line "Greg, make me slap you.").
As I said, this was not the norm and they were always short lived, but there is a place for humor in a game sometimes. I love Minsc, but whether I take him with me depends very much on my CHARNAME and the focus of my playthrough.
Dynaheir is a good mage. She is smart enough to use a ranged weapon, she is a serious character with a sexy voice, and she could have been given a larger role with better explanation. I do not often use her, but I support her character and I don't think she deserves the snubbing she gets. There are much more ineffective characters in the game, and much more annoying characters in the game.
For what it's worth, Dynaheir chimes in a little bit during some of Neera's quest. It leaves me wanting more lines for her, but like all of the old NPCs, her dialogue is scarce.
Poor Dynaheir - if you aren't going to have an 18 intelligence at least have a reasonable dex for AC and tossing stones. And yes, if you aren't memorizing 8+ Sleep spells with your Ring of Wizardry you are missing out on one of the most effective CC spells in BG1.
The intelligence isn't really fair to hold against her: Only Edwin has 18 int in the game. Every other mage (including Imoen) has 17. I can't argue the dex with you, though
Good point, though I can't say I miss them much because the game is nearly over for me. Let's see, there's Emotion, Greater Malison, Chaos... all useful spells and I can see why that turns people off. Still, she has a lot of great options for those slots.
Just gonna have to agree to disagree there. While her 5th level slot is alright what with Cloudkill and the like, the 4th Level Mage spell books feel downright empty to me without Enchantment.
Yes, I said what I said! I left Minsc to his fate with the Gnolls more often than I would Dyna.
The first time you meet Minsc he is the very definition of obtuse. If you recruit him he then holds his breath and stomps his feet if you do not do as he asks, when he is not babbling away to himself or his pet hampster. He will even attack the party, not just leave, when he decides it has been too long. That's if he manages to control his berserker nature long enough to actually get there.
I've never quite gotten over a terrible first impression of Minsc, where he was nothing but an annoying hindrance.
I love you. I'm totally with you there. In BGII he's a lot better, seems like he actually has your back, but in BG1 bleggghhhh... I'm good without a Chaotic Neutral Ranger-by-name-only.
I generally don't say anything because everyone seems to love Minsc, but I think his character is hands-down the stupidest part of the entire series. And yes, that includes Xzar, and the over-the-top aspects of Edwin and his quests (ie Edwina, perpetually plotting out loud, his purely comedic relief epilogue). This is coming from, as I've stated multiple times, an avid fan of Edwin.
@SassyGoldElf If you think Minsc is bad as is, by all that is holy never ever download or play The Kidnapping of Boo. Ermahgerd. Worst. Mod. Ever.
@SassyGoldElf I feel like I was kind of tricked into it when I was convinced I needed to give BG2 Unfinished Business a whirl. That modpack is gone from my game and my computer, and Minsc can sit in the Copper Coronet forever more.
I don't hate Dynaheir- basically, she is a mage blasting rod. I never get annoyed at her, even her incessant, "Watch thee where thou place that pointer!" (which I have heard FAR too often in games), because I end up wanting to kill Edwin myself, and Xan decides he is going to charge into battle with his Moonblade after casting spells FAR too often to suit me. Xzar also seems to find himself playing "Suicidal Mage" far too often to suit me. I have grown used to using her, so I find her less annoying than other Mages in-game.
I've been giving Dynaheir another go because of this thread, and I gotta say she's growing on me. I love her voice and she's just as capable as any other mage. Her barred school hasn't been a hindrance at all though it does mean some strategies aren't available (as is the case with any specialist).
I don't like her, especially now that I have Neera. But I love Minsc. What to do? Have her "chat" with Sheol the Nereid. I'm sure there's easier ways, but I "RP'd" this one as a happy accident to boot her and keep Minsc.
Comments
I have to plan more with Dynaheir, give her 2 tomes, of which I get one fairly late, and get less out of it. I'm not saying Dynaheir is a bad NPC or useless either way. It's just way less convenient to dual her and has less payout than the easy dual on Xzar.
I have used Dynaheir extensively as I often use good parties and she's the only Good-aligned non-dual mage. Because of her I actually didn't realise how good low-level enchantment spells were because I rarely got to use them. When I finally discovered that Sleep is the frikkin' bomb, the go-to level 1 spell that incapacitates all those nasty hobgoblin elites, enemy adventurers etc. I was shocked and overjoyed.
I terms of personality I don't mind her. She's okay, and most BG1 NPCs are pretty faceless.
I like Dynaheir but Edwin does not. I don't like Dynaheir anymore
Once his family drama is settled and he feels less like he has to try overly hard to prove himself all the time (this is mostly where he runs into problems), he's a pretty nice guy. Not surprising at all if you ask me.
I like her personality and her mini-banters, but she is by far the worst mage in the game. If you don't want to dual Imoen, both Xan and Quayle are much better mage choices for a good party, especially now that EE gives neutral NPCs some "good" responses at high reps.
Anyways, she can cast Magic Missile and Web and Haste so she's a good enough mage for me. I'd take her over Xan, though neither of them are high on my list.
I do prefer having two mages around, since I need someone to cast Identify and once the levels start to pick up the firepower is very useful. I tend to go with Xan. Like @Quartz said, high-level Enchantment spells. Pile some of those on and get Edwin throwing every attack spell in the book and the enemies are SOL. Plus Moonblade you guys.
I wish Xan had made the BG2 cut.
Her bio is basically a description about Minsc with any Dynaheir centric background being described as a mystery. Even her "charmed" dialog is rather vague but offers unfulfilled potential. While Minsc spends his time in BG2 grieving and going with the flow, I wonder if Dynaheir would have been more proactive or influential in the unfolding events of the Bhaalspawn. She would have provided great counsel to Charname and Imoen, almost to that of Gorion if he had lived. Especially since she is one of the few NPCs to actually have any foreknowledge of the Bhaalspawn.
We have to note also that she didn't get the BG2 treatment that Minsc did, so she's always going to lose when it comes to "character depth". That's because she was never given the chance to grow. But even as a BG1 character she is pretty much a blank canvas.
That being said, I quite like her and prefer her greatly over Minsc. I really regret what they did to her in BG2. Nalia tries to fill her void somewhat but she is vastly inferior. I would have preferred her BG2 story to unfold as her being left to die after the ambush that led Charname & co to Irenicus' lair. Then flip roles around by having her be the one to rescue and locate Minsc. Having her travel through the wilderness a bit without her guardian would have done her some good.
As for her role as an Evoker, she could have been a Diviner and I wouldn't have cared. But then again I always recruit Eldoth and Garrick...
@Mordeus, you do offer a really interesting suggestion of what could have happened to Dynaheir in BG2 if Minsc had instead been killed off. I suppose her survival would have also come as a conflict of interests with the continuation of Edwin's character, but when I think about it probably no more than Minsc did.
The first time you meet Minsc he is the very definition of obtuse. If you recruit him he then holds his breath and stomps his feet if you do not do as he asks, when he is not babbling away to himself or his pet hampster. He will even attack the party, not just leave, when he decides it has been too long. That's if he manages to control his berserker nature long enough to actually get there.
I've never quite gotten over a terrible first impression of Minsc, where he was nothing but an annoying hindrance.
I generally don't say anything because everyone seems to love Minsc, but I think his character is hands-down the stupidest part of the entire series. And yes, that includes Xzar, and the over-the-top aspects of Edwin and his quests (ie Edwina, perpetually plotting out loud, his purely comedic relief epilogue). This is coming from, as I've stated multiple times, an avid fan of Edwin.
Basically what I'm getting at is that comedy is most certainly welcome in any storyline, but when the entire character is just a joke I cannot get past it in a genre like D&D, where I expect there to be some level of seriousness and genuine character development. I don't know about anyone else's groups, but if any of my past DMs had someone come to them with a character that talked and acted like Minsc with all his ridiculous crap and Boo for an animal companion, they would have told them to make a new character. My first DM might have told someone with a character like Xzar or Edwin to tone it down, but my second probably would have let it slide. Xan too. Come to think of it, the developers really seemed to make the mages all a bit ridiculous, so that in itself may have overshadowed poor Dynaheir, being the only wholly serious one.
Man, now I want a mod that does something with her. When I first started playing and discovered if I grabbed her first I could have both her and Edwin, I had devised all sorts of headcanons to try and develop her more, because I did see potential in her. When I found out they were just going to off her without more than a mention in BG2, I just gave up.
As I said, this was not the norm and they were always short lived, but there is a place for humor in a game sometimes. I love Minsc, but whether I take him with me depends very much on my CHARNAME and the focus of my playthrough.
Dynaheir is a good mage. She is smart enough to use a ranged weapon, she is a serious character with a sexy voice, and she could have been given a larger role with better explanation. I do not often use her, but I support her character and I don't think she deserves the snubbing she gets. There are much more ineffective characters in the game, and much more annoying characters in the game.
For what it's worth, Dynaheir chimes in a little bit during some of Neera's quest. It leaves me wanting more lines for her, but like all of the old NPCs, her dialogue is scarce.