Such a late find. You can buy it in BG1 very early in the game. Why can't you get it sooner in bg2? To me it's almost a bug.
A fluff explanation for why it's rare could be that it's an esoteric item bound with a powerful and intricate enchantment which magically insulates every potion because when magic potions are stuffed closely together for any length of time they irradiate each other and spoil rapidly --- but in fact, it's item description goes: "Typically carried by travelling healers, this leather case folds open and allows the user to strap delicate potion bottles to its cushioned side with numerous leather thongs for safe storage during travel"
...leather case...cushioned side...l0l i can make that myself - enter CLUAConsole:CreateItem("bag06")
Why it's not a cheat you ask? Because it doesn't increase an indiviual potion's usefulness (thus affecting balance) since potions stack so high that you can easily fit all of the useful ones in your inventory (and have enough space remaining) without the case anyway. Thus it's strictly a timesaver, without gameworld implications.
Actually there were no containers at all in BG 1 Vanilla, or at least no Potion cases, cos I can't remember exactly for scroll cases. They were added in with BG EE, along with handy features like bigger ammo stacks and paused-inventory screen.
BG 2 Vanilla introduced containers, but the first Potion Case is in the Throne of Bhaal expansion. Presumably Beamdog/Overhaul decided not to mess with potion cases for SoA cos there is one already in the game in Watcher's Keep, which u can go to fairly early if u knew what u're lookin for, whereas they had to introduce it somewhere for BG 1 EE, so might as well make it available early.
Such a late find. You can buy it in BG1 very early in the game. Why can't you get it sooner in bg2? To me it's almost a bug.
I agree that it's extremely silly. I'm actually finding it difficult to make do with just one potion case, and with the game throwing important notes at you on every map rather than just putting them in your journal where they should have been, I also have three scroll cases just to keep up.
That said, you can get the potion case right away in BG2. Nobody says you have to complete Watcher's Keep just because you go there, though I actually find it useful to do the first level as soon as I can to find the ammo belt.
Cool. Did not know that, but then I haven't had a chance to party with Neera yet. I agree that the lack or limited number of scroll/potion cases in the game has always been a problem. Inventory management is a PITA at times and is (in my opinion) one of the week points of the game.
However... Imagine if each potion is the equivalent of a standard water bottle today, only made of glass/ceramic. Now imagine stomping through some dungeon or other hauling even ten such bottles. I could see that very quickly becoming unmanageable, not to mention silly looking. Granted, this is also a game that allows you to haul around four suits of plate mail in your backpack with no ill effects, but still...
And just imagine. In vanilla BG, we never even knew that bags of any kind were possible.
BG1 Vanilla: No cases BGII Vanilla: Scroll Case, Gem Bag, Bag of Holding BGII:ToB Adds Potion Case, Ammo Belt BG:EE Gem Bag - Neera has it Scroll Case - Firebead gives it to you if you do his quest in Beregost Potion Case - Bought at High Hedge No Bag of Holding or Ammo Belt. BGII:EE Scroll Case, Gem Bag, Bag of Holding, Potion Case, Ammo Belt.
@the_spyder Actually had a "potions realism" discussion on a different thread a few days ago, so I'll copy-paste it here.
__________ On the topic of potions. Despite how they are depicted in most fantasy games, I don't think glass bottles are particularly practical for an adventuring party. All that rough and tumble could easily result in costly breaks and spillages!
This is how I imagine my potion containers... I just remembered seeing a good example from a Chinese Wuxia TV series.
Small sturdy vial made of wood/bamboo or some other natural material. It's magical liquid, so you shouldn't need to down a pint of it for its purpose to take effect!
For those that don't speak Chinese, a little background...
The boy was being bullied at the Daoist Temple where those priests come from. During a fight he badly wounded a fellow student with a forbidden 'dark' technique that causes poisoning, and ran away to the caves of the nearby Tomb Sect. The old woman is a member of the Tomb Sect, who took pity on the boy and decided to look after him.
They've just come out of the caves to confront the priests. She brings a small vial of antidote that would cure the wounded student, but the priests suspect the vial may contain poison. Outraged at her honour and integrity being questioned by the Daoists, the old woman makes the boy drink the antidote to prove that it's not poison, and then declares that she has no more, and the Daoists can go bugger off to find their own way to save their poisoned disciple....
-----
Edit: Ah I got potion case and gem bag mixed up. I stand corrected @Quartz.
@Heindrich1988 - I'm not sure what the 'official' line is, but I remember playing 'Advanced' back in the day. There were actual rules in the DMG (or at least my DM claimed there were) stating that potions were glass or ceramic in nature and thus suffered really poorly on saving throws against attacks. If you got hit by a fireball, as for example, you had to make a saving throw for each individual potion that you carried. If you survived, chances are your potions didn't.
Of course, the games that I played were less combat heavy and potions were significantly less plentiful than we see in BG series. If the party had 3 or 4 potions total at any given time, that was a lot.
Still, I kind of always imagine Egg Shen from Big Trouble in Little China going around with his Gourds full of magic potions.
Imagine if each potion is the equivalent of a standard water bottle today, only made of glass/ceramic. Now imagine stomping through some dungeon or other hauling even ten such bottles. I could see that very quickly becoming unmanageable, not to mention silly looking. Granted, this is also a game that allows you to haul around four suits of plate mail in your backpack with no ill effects, but still...
In p&p potion flasks are usually small, like perfume test bottles and they weigh one ounce, i think. That they weigh 1lb in BG was a decision made in order for them not to be weightless, which was unnecessary in my opinion. Stack size and Inv space limitations would have been sufficient in order to emulate that.
@bob_veng - I don't quite buy that. Extra healing potions used to have three doses in them. That would be very hard to fit inside a 'perfume test bottle'. Also, most fantasy art that I have ever seen usually shows bottles if not as big as a water bottle, at least as large as your fist.
But even so, imagine carrying 30 or 50 bottles of that size, as you do in BG. it would become very untenable very quickly.
Plus, considering the time and the technology, who is blowing the glass for bottles that small?
In any event, all in fun. I just thought the image was amusing.
The size of a bottle has nothing to do with the effectiveness of the content. In "extra healing" potions you simply have less water and more of the whatever-it-is-that-does-the-healing. Same as you can have a normal cup of coffee with a normal amount of caffeine, and a smaller espresso with much more caffeine, for example.
The size of a bottle has nothing to do with the effectiveness of the content. In "extra healing" potions you simply have less water and more of the whatever-it-is-that-does-the-healing. Same as you can have a normal cup of coffee with a normal amount of caffeine, and a smaller espresso with much more caffeine, for example.
Which is fine, only you try swallowing ONLY the right amount for a dose when the entire flask is the size of a perfume test bottle while someone is swinging an ax at your head.
I don't see the problem. You aren't trying to drink only 5/8 of the content, you drink the entire potion, of the same size as any other potion. There's just more healing in the same amount of liquid.
I don't see the problem. You aren't trying to drink only 5/8 of the content, you drink the entire potion, of the same size as any other potion. There's just more healing in the same amount of liquid.
See my previous post about 3 doses in one vial of Extra Healing.
But this is so far beyond the point, and my comment was only in fun anyway.
The size of a bottle has nothing to do with the effectiveness of the content. In "extra healing" potions you simply have less water and more of the whatever-it-is-that-does-the-healing. Same as you can have a normal cup of coffee with a normal amount of caffeine, and a smaller espresso with much more caffeine, for example.
Quadruple espresso's all round before attacking the beholder! (Sorry, shouldn't encourage beholder hate LOL)
The size of a bottle has nothing to do with the effectiveness of the content. In "extra healing" potions you simply have less water and more of the whatever-it-is-that-does-the-healing. Same as you can have a normal cup of coffee with a normal amount of caffeine, and a smaller espresso with much more caffeine, for example.
Quadruple espresso's all round before attacking the beholder! (Sorry, shouldn't encourage beholder hate LOL)
Correct. Encourage Mindflayer hate, they are way worse!
@the_spyder: If I only want a coffee, I don't make an espresso and drink only 3/8 of it. Or in other words, if I don't need triple healing, I don't drink a triple dose. If my wounds are minor enough to save up 2/3 of the potion, it's probably not such a bad wound at all.
Such a late find. You can buy it in BG1 very early in the game. Why can't you get it sooner in bg2? To me it's almost a bug.
Uhh, Actually you can go to watchers keep pretty much right away (as soon as you are able to leave Athkatla actually) and get the potion case and even the ammo belt. I always do that. The potion case is in a store and you don't actually need to fight anyone to get it. The ammo belt is pretty easy to get too since the first floor of watcher's keep is usually pretty easy (unless the random spawn there is vampiric wraiths).
Isn't the first level of Watcher's Keep Level adjusted? I know if you go in early it seems to be much easier and less brutal than if you go in later on.
Yes it is. But you don't have to go in for the potion case to buy it. You don't even have to get the ritual scroll and scepter if you don't want to lug it around SoA if you only talk to merchant on the roof.
Uhh, Actually you can go to watchers keep pretty much right away (as soon as you are able to leave Athkatla actually) and get the potion case and even the ammo belt. I always do that. The potion case is in a store and you don't actually need to fight anyone to get it. The ammo belt is pretty easy to get too since the first floor of watcher's keep is usually pretty easy (unless the random spawn there is vampiric wraiths).
You're right. I've been using the SCSII component to disable watcher's keep in SoA, so i totally lost that option from sight... Still, it should be added to merchants in Athkatla too, most obviously Ribald. That's a totally serious feature request on my side; it'd be a very nice touch for new players.
All these complaints made me think of vanilla Baldur's Gate where it was a major task to manage belongings. If you were a sling or crossbow user going down Nashkel mine, you had to seriously think about whether to drop bolts/bullets in favour of gems. If you used a bow there was no problem as there were arrows everywhere.
Re Bob_Veng's post, that command is now out of date. It should now be: C:CreateItem("bag06")
I LARP, and dabble at reenacting, the stuff BG characters get to run around with is astounding, if I am dressed in a gambeson and mail armour, have a shield and a couple of weapons with me, I can lug around a bit more, but heaving an extra 20kg would impede my movement, as would carrying some 20 polearms.
Sounds like your STR might be 9 or 10, @Zilber. That's normal.
I like to think I am a bit above average, some 12 would work, but there's certainly no percentage die for me.
In 2nd, that would give me a carrying capacity of 90 pounds, or some 40 kilo. I have traveled with that when a friend broke his leg while hiking, and I can ensure you that it will slow you down. I don't really want to think about fighting with that amount. In 5th, it's 60 pounds, so about 27 kilo
I can run with about 27 kilo of stuff on me, but it's hard for me to see how I would manage to do so with 20 spears (this leaves me with a few pounds to be decent)
And imagine how big should be a bag where you can put 10 complete suits of heavy armor.. Even with godly STR is not easy to fight while carrying a bag big as a car. Now I am too old to run with 27 kilo, but in the past I had carried on my shoulder up to 90, on steep mountain paths, helping old people to bring home the wood for their stoves. I had never been able to carry very big things, even if those was weighting 10 or 15 kilo.
And imagine how big should be a bag where you can put 10 complete suits of heavy armor.. Even with godly STR is not easy to fight while carrying a bag big as a car. Now I am too old to run with 27 kilo, but in the past I had carried on my shoulder up to 90, on steep mountain paths, helping old people to bring home the wood for their stoves. I had never been able to carry very big things, even if those was weighting 10 or 15 kilo.
Yeah, carrying something heavy (I grew up on a farm, there's a lot of stuf that needs lugging around) is not the issue, not even when scaling stairs or even on a roof, it's the fighting and bulk that makes it unbelievable.
Jeivar
Member Posts: 53
Comments
You can buy it in BG1 very early in the game. Why can't you get it sooner in bg2? To me it's almost a bug.
A fluff explanation for why it's rare could be that it's an esoteric item bound with a powerful and intricate enchantment which magically insulates every potion because when magic potions are stuffed closely together for any length of time they irradiate each other and spoil rapidly
--- but in fact, it's item description goes: "Typically carried by travelling healers, this leather case folds open and allows the user to strap delicate potion bottles to its cushioned side with numerous leather thongs for safe storage during travel"
...leather case...cushioned side...l0l i can make that myself - enter CLUAConsole:CreateItem("bag06")
Why it's not a cheat you ask?
Because it doesn't increase an indiviual potion's usefulness (thus affecting balance) since potions stack so high that you can easily fit all of the useful ones in your inventory (and have enough space remaining) without the case anyway.
Thus it's strictly a timesaver, without gameworld implications.
Actually there were no containers at all in BG 1 Vanilla, or at least no Potion cases, cos I can't remember exactly for scroll cases. They were added in with BG EE, along with handy features like bigger ammo stacks and paused-inventory screen.
BG 2 Vanilla introduced containers, but the first Potion Case is in the Throne of Bhaal expansion. Presumably Beamdog/Overhaul decided not to mess with potion cases for SoA cos there is one already in the game in Watcher's Keep, which u can go to fairly early if u knew what u're lookin for, whereas they had to introduce it somewhere for BG 1 EE, so might as well make it available early.
And there are none in the original BG of either type.
That said, you can get the potion case right away in BG2. Nobody says you have to complete Watcher's Keep just because you go there, though I actually find it useful to do the first level as soon as I can to find the ammo belt.
There is... Neera's got one. And I think there's another minor sidequest that gives one as a reward.
Edit: Got potion case and gem bag mixed up. See Quartz's list for accurate info regarding containers!
However... Imagine if each potion is the equivalent of a standard water bottle today, only made of glass/ceramic. Now imagine stomping through some dungeon or other hauling even ten such bottles. I could see that very quickly becoming unmanageable, not to mention silly looking. Granted, this is also a game that allows you to haul around four suits of plate mail in your backpack with no ill effects, but still...
And just imagine. In vanilla BG, we never even knew that bags of any kind were possible.
No cases
BGII Vanilla:
Scroll Case, Gem Bag, Bag of Holding
BGII:ToB
Adds Potion Case, Ammo Belt
BG:EE
Gem Bag - Neera has it
Scroll Case - Firebead gives it to you if you do his quest in Beregost
Potion Case - Bought at High Hedge
No Bag of Holding or Ammo Belt.
BGII:EE
Scroll Case, Gem Bag, Bag of Holding, Potion Case, Ammo Belt.
Actually had a "potions realism" discussion on a different thread a few days ago, so I'll copy-paste it here.
__________
On the topic of potions. Despite how they are depicted in most fantasy games, I don't think glass bottles are particularly practical for an adventuring party. All that rough and tumble could easily result in costly breaks and spillages!
This is how I imagine my potion containers... I just remembered seeing a good example from a Chinese Wuxia TV series.
Small sturdy vial made of wood/bamboo or some other natural material. It's magical liquid, so you shouldn't need to down a pint of it for its purpose to take effect!
If you fast forward to 23:50 ...
For those that don't speak Chinese, a little background...
The boy was being bullied at the Daoist Temple where those priests come from. During a fight he badly wounded a fellow student with a forbidden 'dark' technique that causes poisoning, and ran away to the caves of the nearby Tomb Sect. The old woman is a member of the Tomb Sect, who took pity on the boy and decided to look after him.
They've just come out of the caves to confront the priests. She brings a small vial of antidote that would cure the wounded student, but the priests suspect the vial may contain poison. Outraged at her honour and integrity being questioned by the Daoists, the old woman makes the boy drink the antidote to prove that it's not poison, and then declares that she has no more, and the Daoists can go bugger off to find their own way to save their poisoned disciple....
-----
Edit:
Ah I got potion case and gem bag mixed up. I stand corrected @Quartz.
Of course, the games that I played were less combat heavy and potions were significantly less plentiful than we see in BG series. If the party had 3 or 4 potions total at any given time, that was a lot.
Still, I kind of always imagine Egg Shen from Big Trouble in Little China going around with his Gourds full of magic potions.
But even so, imagine carrying 30 or 50 bottles of that size, as you do in BG. it would become very untenable very quickly.
Plus, considering the time and the technology, who is blowing the glass for bottles that small?
In any event, all in fun. I just thought the image was amusing.
But this is so far beyond the point, and my comment was only in fun anyway.
@the_spyder: If I only want a coffee, I don't make an espresso and drink only 3/8 of it. Or in other words, if I don't need triple healing, I don't drink a triple dose. If my wounds are minor enough to save up 2/3 of the potion, it's probably not such a bad wound at all.
*clink, clink, tink, clink*
Still, it should be added to merchants in Athkatla too, most obviously Ribald. That's a totally serious feature request on my side; it'd be a very nice touch for new players. fifty ounces is just a couple of pounds. no biggie. fits easily in utility belts, pockets, rucksacks and beer helmets
the technology of blowing glass is ancient (these are from ancient egypt: http://sandragorenielsen.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/glass-flasks1.jpg?w=300&h=225). since there not much in the way of technological innovation in faerun, the craftsmanship has become very sophisticated over time.
Re Bob_Veng's post, that command is now out of date. It should now be: C:CreateItem("bag06")
In 2nd, that would give me a carrying capacity of 90 pounds, or some 40 kilo. I have traveled with that when a friend broke his leg while hiking, and I can ensure you that it will slow you down. I don't really want to think about fighting with that amount.
In 5th, it's 60 pounds, so about 27 kilo
I can run with about 27 kilo of stuff on me, but it's hard for me to see how I would manage to do so with 20 spears (this leaves me with a few pounds to be decent)
Even with godly STR is not easy to fight while carrying a bag big as a car.
Now I am too old to run with 27 kilo, but in the past I had carried on my shoulder up to 90, on steep mountain paths, helping old people to bring home the wood for their stoves. I had never been able to carry very big things, even if those was weighting 10 or 15 kilo.