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Is Cernd still useless?

InfiltratorInfiltrator Member Posts: 121
in Baldur's Gate II: Enhanced Edition
Unless you used mods he was probably the most useless character in BG2. I was wondering if something about that changed.
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Comments

  • jackjackjackjack Member Posts: 3,251
    He's rather funny.
  • O_BruceO_Bruce Member Posts: 2,790
    He never was. First of all, he's a druid who traded wearing armor for much more usefull shapeshifting.
    Second, 18 wisdom isn't something to laugh about.
  • AlexisisinneedAlexisisinneed Member Posts: 470
    I believe that would be breaking their contract limitations. So he's probably still useless to you. Besides Jaheria is all the druid you'll ever need.
  • etaglocetagloc Member Posts: 349
    maybe if you want to powergame, but it isn't hard to beat the game with him.
  • InfiltratorInfiltrator Member Posts: 121
    edited November 2013
    I know I could beat the game with him, but I just don't like having to dump very strong items on him to make him go from "ultimate dead-weight" to "not terribly useless"..

    I'm not even one to power game to the limits, I like a strong cohesion with everyone in the party having a role that they're good at.. Cernd has just worthless stats outside of WIS (which conflicts with his WW) I can't rely on him to get anything done properly.
  • shrekdjshrekdj Member Posts: 50
    Cernd is useful. I have no idea about why he should be useless. If you ask me, Cernd can provide amazing tactics combined with a perfect party, at least over couple of years he has never disappointed me.
    Some of his abilities are the best for having a different take on certain mission outcome. He is seriously underestimated.
  • XukuthXukuth Member Posts: 78
    edited November 2013
    ZelgadisGW said:

    He never was. First of all, he's a druid who traded wearing armor for much more usefull shapeshifting.
    Second, 18 wisdom isn't something to laugh about.

    Shapeshifting was seriously bugged without mods in original BG2, and it made Shapeshifters like Cernd essentially deadweight.

    @Infiltrator:
    Actually, I was looking at the Werewolf and Greater Werewolf creature files just a few minutes ago to check for myself whether they fixed the garbage shapeshifting, and it looks like they DID fix it, so Cernd shouldn't be useless anymore.
  • TaevikTaevik Member Posts: 38
    I use him for his ability to cast spells. There's some decent druid items in the game, so he is not completely useless.
  • InfiltratorInfiltrator Member Posts: 121
    Xukuth said:

    ZelgadisGW said:

    He never was. First of all, he's a druid who traded wearing armor for much more usefull shapeshifting.
    Second, 18 wisdom isn't something to laugh about.

    Shapeshifting was seriously bugged without mods in original BG2, and it made Shapeshifters like Cernd essentially deadweight.

    @Infiltrator:
    Actually, I was looking at the Werewolf and Greater Werewolf creature files just a few minutes ago to check for myself whether they fixed the garbage shapeshifting, and it looks like they DID fix it, so Cernd shouldn't be useless anymore.
    Hey, could you post your findings in more detail please? :) Thanks for the effort!
  • JoeyJoey Member Posts: 201
    what changes did they make to shapeshifting then?
  • XukuthXukuth Member Posts: 78
    edited November 2013
    Actually, it looks like I spoke too soon. I was looking at the files, which have the correct stats, but it looks like the Polymorph opcode may still not really work properly and give those stats to the shapeshifted druid. Sorry. Looks like Shapeshifting is still gimped.

    e: It's kind of insane that this has no included fix. I'd say you should wait for Refinements to be updated for compatibility, then use that fix component, as it's the most elegant one I've come across.
    Post edited by Xukuth on
  • arondesarondes Member Posts: 12
    Simply adjust the class (as they have done with Totemic) will make Cernd useful. I only wish one feature: can cast the spells under the wolf form.
  • ThunderThunder Member Posts: 157
    Some druid spells are extremely useful, like the elemental summons and insect swarm etc. He's not a multiclass like Jaheira, so he gets access to them a bit earlier.
  • InfiltratorInfiltrator Member Posts: 121
    Xukuth said:

    Actually, it looks like I spoke too soon. I was looking at the files, which have the correct stats, but it looks like the Polymorph opcode may still not really work properly and give those stats to the shapeshifted druid. Sorry. Looks like Shapeshifting is still gimped.


    Well, thanks anyway. I was hoping to have the real thaco, magic resists and weapon immunities as a true werewolf. I don't know who in the right mind thought a +2 attack claw on greater WW was a good idea...
  • shrekdjshrekdj Member Posts: 50
    Are fixes from BG2 Fixpack implemented in BG2:EE? If yes, then shape shifting should be fixed!..
  • JoeyJoey Member Posts: 201
    what changes did they make to shapeshifting then?
  • DarkDoggDarkDogg Member Posts: 598
    Cernd is much more useless than Garrick.
  • velehalvelehal Member Posts: 299
    Anybody, who says that Cernd (single class druid) is useless, should try him. I think that generally druid´s spells ara more useful than cleric´s spells. Insect plague is one of the finest spell in game. Even when nerfed with Spell Revision and SCS this spell wins many battles by itself.
  • KefkaKefka Member Posts: 46
    Cernd isn't useless at all. 18 Wisdom, and physical stats can be fixed with gloves of Dexterity and belt of Strength if you really don't want to polymorph. You can give him the sling+5 that is available right at the start of the game (well, when you have enough money for it) and his low AC shouldn't be a problem.
  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    He's a single class Druid, which means he has more spell slots and higher spell levels than Jaheira. Not sure how that could possibly be useless.
  • FFGFFG Member Posts: 52
    Infiltrator said:

    Unless you used mods he was probably the most useless character in BG2. I was wondering if something about that changed.

    He's as useful as any single-class druid.
    So he's very useful.
    Stop thinking about this game in powergaming terms.

  • velehalvelehal Member Posts: 299
    FFG said:

    He's as useful as any single-class druid.
    So he's very useful.
    Stop thinking about this game in powergaming terms.

    But he is useful even from powegaming point of view. I think that he is more useful than Viconia. Not by his stats but by his spells. I really don´t know why people so underestimate druids.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    Certainly in the SoA portion of the game Cernd is really most useless against Iron (and Adamantite) Golems. At least until you lower their magic resistance or equip him with the crimson dart +3 and gauntlets of dexterity. Otherwise he generally has something useful he can cast though getting to level 14 with him (where he gains that 1 level 7 spell) is actually going to be fairly helpful.
  • VarwulfVarwulf Member Posts: 564
    edited November 2013
    Alexisisinneed said:

    Besides Jaheria is all the druid you'll ever need.

    Said almost every male charname, ever :)
  • KefkaKefka Member Posts: 46
    edited November 2013
    elminster said:

    Certainly in the SoA portion of the game Cernd is really most useless against Iron (and Adamantite) Golems. At least until you lower their magic resistance or equip him with the crimson dart +3 and gauntlets of dexterity. Otherwise he generally has something useful he can cast though getting to level 14 with him (where he gains that 1 level 7 spell) is actually going to be fairly helpful.

    Actually, in my game, since he was using the Sling+5, he was the best choice against those golems, as they can usually be fought at a distance since they can't cross narrow spaces.
  • JoeyJoey Member Posts: 201
    FFG said:

    Infiltrator said:

    Unless you used mods he was probably the most useless character in BG2. I was wondering if something about that changed.

    He's as useful as any single-class druid.
    So he's very useful.
    Stop thinking about this game in powergaming terms.

    Just because you don't like an NPC it doesn't mean you're a powergamer.
  • FFGFFG Member Posts: 52
    edited November 2013
    velehal said:



    But he is useful even from powegaming point of view. I think that he is more useful than Viconia. Not by his stats but by his spells. I really don´t know why people so underestimate druids.

    I'm not exactly saying he's useless from a powergaming perspective; in fact it's very possible to complete the game using any combination of characters you can think of. However, I think most people would argue that he's overall less useful than Viconia for example, even if spells like Insect Plague are completely broken in vanilla.

    The only reason I mentioned powergaming is that it's probably the only perspective in which one could conceivably consider Cernd useless. Otherwise it's just grotesque exaggeration.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    edited November 2013
    Kefka said:

    elminster said:

    Certainly in the SoA portion of the game Cernd is really most useless against Iron (and Adamantite) Golems. At least until you lower their magic resistance or equip him with the crimson dart +3 and gauntlets of dexterity. Otherwise he generally has something useful he can cast though getting to level 14 with him (where he gains that 1 level 7 spell) is actually going to be fairly helpful.

    Actually, in my game, since he was using the Sling+5, he was the best choice against those golems, as they can usually be fought at a distance since they can't cross narrow spaces.
    Certainly in the D'Arnise keep and Firkraag's Dungeon thats the case. I was referring more from a spell standpoint since they are immune to (and will actually heal from) fire damage (like Fire Storm), have high magic resistance (which Fire Storm can normally ignore), and can fairly easily remove summons. Any fighter character in your group could probably stand there with that sling and get a comparable amount of hits as Cernd though, even if they don't have proficiency (no proficiency is a thac0 penalty of 2 for fighters). I mean you are probably better off with Cernd using the sling instead of darts purely because he doesn't start out with dart proficiency (at least not his lowest level form) but unless you are oddly short on fighters he's probably not the best guy to be using it.
  • AranthysAranthys Member Posts: 722
    Aren't items beeing taken into account now when you're shapeshifting ? (IE : If you have a +2 ring, then its effect will be kept in whatever form you take)
    I believe it was the case in BG;EE, making shapeshifting much better.
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