I don't think the problem is that he is useless, but that his kit is broken. By which I mean that it does not function as intended. Everyone who says that "Your just not playing him right!!!" Is in my opinion incorrect. He should be played as a shapeshifter, his werewolf form should be used to melee and tank (the whole game) and he should switch back to use spells. He cannot function in werewolf form as the kit stands.
-He is a total jerk and should be Chaotic Neutral, I mean, leaving his wife PREGNANT and taking her child from her and leaving the child to some psycho druids! He is a total asshole, then making jokes to Edwina (and he did not knew that he left her wife pregnant and jokes about a related topic, he IS a total asshole) about the red moon's cycle and, well, I think that he is one of the biggest asshole NPCs, I find funny that he is so jerk-ish and a druid at the same time, I almost admire him.
Er, have you ever played Cernd's quest? He has serious personal issues, but his wife is dead. He doesn't take a child from her. The child has no living family but him. And the druids are probably not psycho: they seem perfectly reasonable in all your interactions with them. I'm not sure what at all about him is chaotic neutral... Haer'Dalis is CN. Jan is CN. Cernd is the most TN character I can think of in both games. He doesn't give a damn about anything save nature. I think the only thing he objects to is poisoning the grove. Everything else, he's steadily neutral towards.
Tankwise, Cernd is fine. Offensive wise, not so much. I agree that the Shapeshifter kit should be altered so that GWW form has more of a purpose in ToB.
I just don't think that fixing the kit would change things much for Cernd (it just might make player character Shapeshifters more popular). I've been on Baldur's Gate forums since the beginning, before TotSC came out. And if there's one thing I've learned, it's that people like interesting NPCS. Even with a mod like Shapeshifter Rebalancing (which makes Cernd OP), people still aren't lining up to use him. He's just not interesting enough. The most interesting thing is his personal quest, in which he abandons his son and clearly has no intention of raising him, which doesn't put him in a positive light at all.
...Hm, you know who else has a kid and doesn't know about it and thus runs out on them and then refuses to support the child when finding out about it? Coran. Wonder how they'd get along. "Hey, bro, I totes did that too!"? No, probably not.
I have been using cerand and he seems pretty useful to me he heals/ summons/buffs which is fine . In regards to his personality I found it to acutally fine. He is alot more pleasant to be around than some of the others.
Cernd just tanked SCS Lavok for me, while the rest of the party hid in the doorway until he was out of nasty spells. 4 abi-dahlzims, 2 mordy swords, 3 skelly warriors, a time stop, a wail of the banshee and a bunch of other crap. i think i chugged 3 healing potions during the fight.
Cernd's advantage is that he gets more spells and gets high level spells sooner, both via being single classed and by having a higher wisdom score.
Jahiera's advantage is that she's tougher and hits harder in meele/ranged combat.
Now, the real problem for Cernd is while there are some very powerful Druid spells, there aren't a lot of them. Namely, Insect Plague (5th level Druid), Conjure Fire Elemental (6th) and Greater Elemental Summoning (7th, feat). To this you can add Chaotic Commands (5th) and Heal (6th). Adding insult to injury, Jahiera will be able to use Insect Plague, the very best Druid spell, by the time you leave Irenicus' lab and Greater Elemental Summoning at the same time as Cernd (because its limiting factor is feats, not caster level). Also, they're both True Neutral, so you can include them in any party.
Long story short, when people say Cernd is useless, generally what they mean is that Jahiera is more powerful. An extra Death Ward, Chaotic Commands or being able to gain Fire Elementals a level or two earlier aren't all that much in exchange for considerably reduced survivablity and less damage.
Of course, if you're using mods to change up Shapeshifting, its a different story.
EDIT: Also, for the sake of comparison, if you want a Divine Caster, you can use Aerie and trade Insect Plague and Conjure Fire Elemental for Chaos, Greater Malison, Breach, Haste, Slow...
Cernd's advantage is that he gets more spells and gets high level spells sooner, both via being single classed and by having a higher wisdom score.
Jahiera's advantage is that she's tougher and hits harder in meele/ranged combat.
Now, the real problem for Cernd is while there are some very powerful Druid spells, there aren't a lot of them. Namely, Insect Plague (5th level Druid), Conjure Fire Elemental (6th) and Greater Elemental Summoning (7th, feat). To this you can add Chaotic Commands (5th) and Heal (6th). Adding insult to injury, Jahiera will be able to use Insect Plague, the very best Druid spell, by the time you leave Irenicus' lab and Greater Elemental Summoning at the same time as Cernd (because its limiting factor is feats, not caster level). Also, they're both True Neutral, so you can include them in any party.
Long story short, when people say Cernd is useless, generally what they mean is that Jahiera is more powerful. An extra Death Ward, Chaotic Commands or being able to gain Fire Elementals a level or two earlier aren't all that much in exchange for considerably reduced survivablity and less damage.
I don't think Jaheira is more powerful they just fulfill different roles. Jaheira is more of a melee damage character and Cernd is a better caster and (for 2/3rds of the game) a better defensive melee character.
The reason I write this is because Jaheira is limited to one level 7 druid spell until likely at least Amkethran and won't get that one spell until 3 million total xp. Cernd on the otherhand can get that at 1.5 million xp, which gives him another option before battle (especially since level 7 is where Druids get some of their best spells). May not seem like having access to level 7 spells is much, but for instance that level 7 spell (along with a ring, potion, or spell of invisibility) lets Cernd can cast Nature's Beauty (the casting of which doesn't actually break invisibility) and leave enemies with permanent blindness (or possibly dead). Alternatively it will also give him access to Regeneration, which is a huge benefit over Jaheria.
Jaheira will absolutely beat Cernd when it comes to melee damage and Thac0, but she is limited by her starting proficiencies. For instance she won't be able to specialise in scimitars and specialise in two-weapon style until 3.5 million total xp. It doesn't sound like much but it limits the reliability of her damage output compared to other warrior characters. She also won't get the kind of AC/magic resistance/elemental resistance that Cernd can get around the same point he reaches level 13. Also (especially in a party of 6 people) her caster level will likely always be behind Cernd's.
I mean sure if you are only looking at the end game then Jaheira will turn out to be more effective. But even then that will be at a point in the game where mages dominate either character to a pretty substancial extent. Before ToB however I think Cernd has a lot of advantages over Jaheria.
Everyone who says that "Your just not playing him right!!!" Is in my opinion incorrect. He should be played as a shapeshifter, his werewolf form should be used to melee and tank (the whole game) and he should switch back to use spells. He cannot function in werewolf form as the kit stands.
I mean sure if you are only looking at the end game then Jaheira will turn out to be more effective. But even then that will be at a point in the game where mages dominate either character to a pretty substancial extent. Before ToB however I think Cernd has a lot of advantages over Jaheria.
Jaheira will always be more useful because she's a fantastic melee character. You only need so much druid spells (2-3 per battle tops) but you always need good frontliners. She's among the best fighters and the weapon selection for her is great in both SoA (blackblood + belm ~ early in the game) and ToB.
Shapeshifters get pretty sweet AC and resistances from greater werewolf. Coupled with ironskins and immunity to non-magical weapons from Aura of Flaming Death, Cernd is super tanky. For damage you have 10D10 from Globe of Blades, 2D10+2 fire from AoFD, and (if he can hit them) 6 claw attacks when improved hasted. At higher levels it's not hard to be rocking AC and resists like this:
I mean sure if you are only looking at the end game then Jaheira will turn out to be more effective. But even then that will be at a point in the game where mages dominate either character to a pretty substancial extent. Before ToB however I think Cernd has a lot of advantages over Jaheria.
Jaheira will always be more useful because she's a fantastic melee character. You only need so much druid spells (2-3 per battle tops) but you always need good frontliners. She's among the best fighters and the weapon selection for her is great in both SoA (blackblood + belm ~ early in the game) and ToB.
I don't know if she will always be more useful. At certain points you may find her to be more useful than Cernd, but I don't think this is as clear cut as you are trying to imply. A single casting of Earthquake (or if you are more daring - Nature's Beauty) for instance that you can do with Cernd once he gets to level 14 is going to be more useful battle-wise than say Jaheira's scimitar/club proficiency. As is frankly the low AC and fairly high resistances Cernd can get in form before that point that lets him distract enemies as your mage/s cast spells against them. If Jaheira could still cast Iron Skins instantly (as was the case in the original bg2) she'd certainly have an advantage over Cernd there, but unfortunately that's no longer the case.
Shapeshifters get pretty sweet AC and resistances from greater werewolf. Coupled with ironskins and immunity to non-magical weapons from Aura of Flaming Death, Cernd is super tanky. For damage you have 10D10 from Globe of Blades, 2D10+2 fire from AoFD, and (if he can hit them) 6 claw attacks when improved hasted. At higher levels it's not hard to be rocking AC and resists like this:
Yea unfortunately they no longer get the constitution bonus in BG2EE. Apparently they did this to prevent people from dying from having too little health (if the bonus disappeared). Always seemed like a pretty minor problem to me whose "solution" ended up taking an important health bonus away from Cernd (in particular). So without the belt of fortitude he's not quite the tank he should be in his Greater Werewolf form.
his only real advantage imo is that he gets the more druid spells then jahera and that's only by virtue of being the only other druid in the game. Even then Jahera gets harpers call, so even in that respect she still has at least one distinct advantage over Cernd. They could add pretty much any new pure druid to the game and Cernd would become utterly Superfluous.
Really I find it a bit frustrating because I really like druids but the only one we get in bg2 is the worst class of druid has little personality(and seems like a pretty awful person on top of that)and because he cant were armour spends the whole game walking round with the but ugly character model for unclothed human priests
I always feel druid wolf and bear forms are a bit weak. If druids can shapeshift into more powerful forms like troll, umber hulk, clay golem, etc, then druids are more viable. These transformations should be enabled at certain levels. For example, troll at level 4, umber hulk at level 8, clay golem at level 12.
I always feel druid wolf and bear forms are a bit weak. If druids can shapeshift into more powerful forms like troll, umber hulk, clay golem, etc, then druids are more viable. These transformations should be enabled at certain levels. For example, troll at level 4, umber hulk at level 8, clay golem at level 12.
I would recommend trying the SCS version of shapeshifting. It has nice naturaly progression, making it enjoyable and balanced even in BG 1. The Greater Werewolf form obtained on level 13 offers quite nice abilites, useful even in ToB: - 2D6 +3 pawns - +2 APR - base ac -4 - nice resistences, stackable with other bonuses -str set to 21 -dex set to 20 - 6 hp/round - permahasted
All that with ability to change between forms at will, without limit. Pretty powerful but not crazy.
I always feel druid wolf and bear forms are a bit weak. If druids can shapeshift into more powerful forms like troll, umber hulk, clay golem, etc, then druids are more viable. These transformations should be enabled at certain levels. For example, troll at level 4, umber hulk at level 8, clay golem at level 12.
troll at level 4 would slaughter everything ditto umber hulk at level 8
clay golem at 12 is even worse. completely immune to magic and only takes crushing damage. how many enemies have crushing damage?? could walk through dragons/elder orbs/liches no problem
golems are constructs. i think that lorewise it's strictly impossible to shapeshift into objects that are non-living. even with a wish - shapeshifting from a living to a lifeless object could logically only result in death
I'm playing Temple of Elemental Evil at the moment, and while a flawed game it does showcase how much better druids got in 3rd edition and onwards.
Animal companions and the ability to exchange any spell for an equal-level summon spell are very useful. The feat Natural Spell (casting while shapeshifted) would make Cernd far better in isolation. The shapeshifting progression also seems better, with newer forms adding at each level.
As I understand it, druids and rogues both lose out in CRPGs compared to PnP because their skills allow for a lot of roleplaying, flexibility and creativity. A druid can technically shapeshift into just about any animal with the right feats. Trapped in a jail? Would you rather turn into a bird and fly out the window or a rhino and charge through the door?
I dont really care about npc power... i play a sorc... i just steamroll over anything... the others are to carry my stuff and tell me how awesome\retard i am
I rolled a Sorcerer too and she's beast. I was looking to see how he is as a spare healer. Jaheria is better but I need my drow's heals. Aerie's better too but I need Korgan he's my MT yo :P
Comments
Everyone who says that "Your just not playing him right!!!" Is in my opinion incorrect. He should be played as a shapeshifter, his werewolf form should be used to melee and tank (the whole game) and he should switch back to use spells. He cannot function in werewolf form as the kit stands.
Tankwise, Cernd is fine. Offensive wise, not so much. I agree that the Shapeshifter kit should be altered so that GWW form has more of a purpose in ToB.
I just don't think that fixing the kit would change things much for Cernd (it just might make player character Shapeshifters more popular). I've been on Baldur's Gate forums since the beginning, before TotSC came out. And if there's one thing I've learned, it's that people like interesting NPCS. Even with a mod like Shapeshifter Rebalancing (which makes Cernd OP), people still aren't lining up to use him. He's just not interesting enough. The most interesting thing is his personal quest, in which he abandons his son and clearly has no intention of raising him, which doesn't put him in a positive light at all.
...Hm, you know who else has a kid and doesn't know about it and thus runs out on them and then refuses to support the child when finding out about it? Coran. Wonder how they'd get along. "Hey, bro, I totes did that too!"? No, probably not.
I'm guessing from the sounds of it you could more or less solo SoA in that form with 0 effort required whatsoever.
Cernd WASN'T useless!
He was FANTASTIC
as cannon fodder.
He got supremely chunked,
and is SORELY missed.
---edit---
It was a sight to behold.
Firkraag picked Cernd up,
while in beast mode,
chewed him to death,
and then swallowed,
blood, guts, fur, and all,
straight down the hatch.
Getting Carsomyr was bitter sweet that day, my friends.
Cernd is a badass.
Cernd's advantage is that he gets more spells and gets high level spells sooner, both via being single classed and by having a higher wisdom score.
Jahiera's advantage is that she's tougher and hits harder in meele/ranged combat.
Now, the real problem for Cernd is while there are some very powerful Druid spells, there aren't a lot of them. Namely, Insect Plague (5th level Druid), Conjure Fire Elemental (6th) and Greater Elemental Summoning (7th, feat). To this you can add Chaotic Commands (5th) and Heal (6th). Adding insult to injury, Jahiera will be able to use Insect Plague, the very best Druid spell, by the time you leave Irenicus' lab and Greater Elemental Summoning at the same time as Cernd (because its limiting factor is feats, not caster level). Also, they're both True Neutral, so you can include them in any party.
Long story short, when people say Cernd is useless, generally what they mean is that Jahiera is more powerful. An extra Death Ward, Chaotic Commands or being able to gain Fire Elementals a level or two earlier aren't all that much in exchange for considerably reduced survivablity and less damage.
Of course, if you're using mods to change up Shapeshifting, its a different story.
EDIT:
Also, for the sake of comparison, if you want a Divine Caster, you can use Aerie and trade Insect Plague and Conjure Fire Elemental for Chaos, Greater Malison, Breach, Haste, Slow...
The reason I write this is because Jaheira is limited to one level 7 druid spell until likely at least Amkethran and won't get that one spell until 3 million total xp. Cernd on the otherhand can get that at 1.5 million xp, which gives him another option before battle (especially since level 7 is where Druids get some of their best spells). May not seem like having access to level 7 spells is much, but for instance that level 7 spell (along with a ring, potion, or spell of invisibility) lets Cernd can cast Nature's Beauty (the casting of which doesn't actually break invisibility) and leave enemies with permanent blindness (or possibly dead). Alternatively it will also give him access to Regeneration, which is a huge benefit over Jaheria.
Jaheira will absolutely beat Cernd when it comes to melee damage and Thac0, but she is limited by her starting proficiencies. For instance she won't be able to specialise in scimitars and specialise in two-weapon style until 3.5 million total xp. It doesn't sound like much but it limits the reliability of her damage output compared to other warrior characters. She also won't get the kind of AC/magic resistance/elemental resistance that Cernd can get around the same point he reaches level 13. Also (especially in a party of 6 people) her caster level will likely always be behind Cernd's.
I mean sure if you are only looking at the end game then Jaheira will turn out to be more effective. But even then that will be at a point in the game where mages dominate either character to a pretty substancial extent. Before ToB however I think Cernd has a lot of advantages over Jaheria.
his only real advantage imo is that he gets the more druid spells then jahera and that's only by virtue of being the only other druid in the game. Even then Jahera gets harpers call, so even in that respect she still has at least one distinct advantage over Cernd. They could add pretty much any new pure druid to the game and Cernd would become utterly Superfluous.
Really I find it a bit frustrating because I really like druids but the only one we get in bg2 is the worst class of druid has little personality(and seems like a pretty awful person on top of that)and because he cant were armour spends the whole game walking round with the but ugly character model for unclothed human priests
- 2D6 +3 pawns
- +2 APR
- base ac -4
- nice resistences, stackable with other bonuses
-str set to 21
-dex set to 20
- 6 hp/round
- permahasted
All that with ability to change between forms at will, without limit. Pretty powerful but not crazy.
ditto umber hulk at level 8
clay golem at 12 is even worse. completely immune to magic and only takes crushing damage. how many enemies have crushing damage?? could walk through dragons/elder orbs/liches no problem
Animal companions and the ability to exchange any spell for an equal-level summon spell are very useful. The feat Natural Spell (casting while shapeshifted) would make Cernd far better in isolation. The shapeshifting progression also seems better, with newer forms adding at each level.
As I understand it, druids and rogues both lose out in CRPGs compared to PnP because their skills allow for a lot of roleplaying, flexibility and creativity. A druid can technically shapeshift into just about any animal with the right feats. Trapped in a jail? Would you rather turn into a bird and fly out the window or a rhino and charge through the door?