Yes, he's still useless. 18 wis isn't a big deal even for a druid or cleric. Jaheira manages to be a better druid thanks to Harper's Call despite being a multiclass with less wisdom.
Yes, he's still useless. 18 wis isn't a big deal even for a druid or cleric. Jaheira manages to be a better druid thanks to Harper's Call despite being a multiclass with less wisdom.
Rod of Resurrection you buy from Ribald has 10 charges and Cernd can use it. With a high reputation and 18 charisma you can buy it from him for about 8500, which works out to be just under 1000/use if you only use it for 9 charges and then sell it back and buy it again. Its not an ideal solution of course but its better to use in the midst of combat than Jaheira's spell. Also by the time Jaheira gains access to a single level 7 spell Cernd will have 6 of them, so I wouldn't say Jaheira is the better druid. At least not until she hits level 15 as a druid (and long before as well as at that point Cernd will be benefiting from a higher casting level). To grossly simplify I would say Cernd is a better caster and Jaheira is a better fighter.
Can someone please point out how his shapeshifting is different from BG2 vanilla (if it is) because otherwise I don't see much use of him. A shapeshifter that sucks in his shifted form.. yay..
The fact is that Cernd is the worst or most hated NPC in BG2 (no matter useless or not). There are many polls or discussions about that. Another fact is that people don't like Anomnomnomen or Korgan, but none of them said that they are useless like Cernd. And it has nothing to do with powergaming. It's more about RP, because Cernd's personality really sucks.
The fact is that Cernd is the worst or most hated NPC in BG2 (no matter useless or not). There are many polls or discussions about that. Another fact is that people don't like Anomnomnomen or Korgan, but none of them said that they are useless like Cernd. And it has nothing to do with powergaming. It's more about RP, because Cernd's personality really sucks.
I tend to disagree. I think Anomen is the worst NPC in BG2, and his personality is a lot more crappier than Cernd's. Also, Cernd as a Shapeshifter is bad, but Cernd as a Divine Spellcaster is good.
However, that goes with what @ZelgadisGW said. Its not a fact, its just mere opinion in a stream of opinions.
These are not facts, just opinions. Just to correct you.
When I say that cernd is useless - that's my opinion, nothing more. Fact is that 90% of people in a poll or something don't like Cernd - this is a fact. Sociology.
The fact is that Cernd is the worst or most hated NPC in BG2 (no matter useless or not). There are many polls or discussions about that. Another fact is that people don't like Anomnomnomen or Korgan, but none of them said that they are useless like Cernd. And it has nothing to do with powergaming. It's more about RP, because Cernd's personality really sucks.
Cernd's got a good personality it just comes out more with certain party members (Edwin, Mazzy, Aerie, to name a few).
These are not facts, just opinions. Just to correct you.
When I say that cernd is useless - that's my opinion, nothing more. Fact is that 90% of people in a poll or something don't like Cernd - this is a fact. Sociology.
A lot of statistics are made up on the spot, so basically, right now, you're just shooting numbers out of your rear end and calling them 'fact'.
Opinions are -not- fact. Its when the opinion is proven true via an experiment of some sort that is when it is fact. I mean, I could say that Hexxat is the best NPC in BG2EE, and have a couple dozen people agree with me. Does that make it fact? No. No, no it does not. I would have to make a hypothesis, test the hypothesis, probably via a poll, and see how many people agree or disagree.
Just because some people don't like Cernd doesn't make him the worst NPC. Just as my dislike of Anomen doesn't make him the worst NPC.
So, yeah, get it straight, saying a mystical number to make it seem like its a majority without any real proof is not really smart. Until you do an experiment. Saying 90% of people don't like Cernd is just silly.
So, I say make a poll, and determine how many people like Cernd, and vise versa, but don't spout out a random number and call it fact.
TL:DR - Make a poll, see how many people do or don't like Cernd. Don't use numbers unless they can be proven.
*clear throat* Now that I got that rant out of the way.
Cernd is actually a pretty interesting guy. I mean I don't approve of him leaving his pregnant wife to go be a druid, but that's his choice in the long run.
Can someone please point out how his shapeshifting is different from BG2 vanilla (if it is) because otherwise I don't see much use of him. A shapeshifter that sucks in his shifted form.. yay..
Just checked : Helm of balduran, ring of protection do work while you are shapeshifted. Other effects will also probably apply, making shapeshifting slightly better than in vanilla.
he retains the items boni? oh, that's something. Still I prefer not to choose which one is worse. Especially with the new Blackguard around, I will not choose second class paladins or clerics. If I need one, I would make myself one.
Cernd is widely considered to be "the worst NPC" because he's just so underwhelming compared to the other NPCs. He has nothing particularly special about him in terms of equipment or in terms of abilities. His spellcasting is nice-ish, but the game throws so many spellcasters at you (even Jaheria, who is also a druid) that access to the druid circle doesn't really matter.
Druids are so underwhelming in Baldur's Gate II because most of their really good spells (Lightning Call, for instance) involve being outside under the open air. In Baldur's Gate they rocked because most encounters took place outside, but in BGII the amount of open-air fighting you do is rather limited. It's almost all dungeon crawling and other such things. It doesn't help Cernd's case that he can't really take a hit unless you over-kit him or if he's in Werewolf Mode (which means he can't cast anyways) when other characters can take hits by default and therefore are better off from getting kitted out.
I mean, powergaming isn't really required to beat Baldur's Gate II, but call an axe an axe. When it comes down to stats and equipment and all of that other business, there just isn't a reason to use Cernd when you're offered so many other opportunities.
fact and scientific theory are two different things. People on the internet love to think that everythiing should be scrutinised as if it's appearing in a scientific paper, but they don't.
If (and i'm assuming this is the case) popular opinion regards cernd as being the most useless npc, then yes you can claim 'the community regard cernd as the most useless npc' as a fact.
Or alternatively just claim that our opinions have to be founded on data and spend all day arguing about data.
I always hated Cernd. He's mediocre at best, and most single class druids are pretty 'meh' (Fighter/Druid or Cleric/Ranger is much better) to begin with. His AC is horrid, he has no bonuses from his CON, he can't wear armor, and vanilla Shapeshifter is *ASS*.
Unless you get the Shapeshifter Rebalancing tweak, and give him the bonuses he's supposed to get, then he really is the worst NPC in the game in terms of usefullness.
Whenever something is generally referred to as bad or underpowered, there will always be a vocal minority who comes out to call those people idiots who can't play properly.
Anyways, the problem with Cernd is that he doesn't do anything particularly well. He's not much of a divine caster because druids are underwhelming in this game. He's not great in melee because even the greater werewolf only has +2 1d6 claws and bad thac0. He can also only do one of those things at a time. In contrast, Jaheira can both cast and fight seamlessly and is a much better fighter. He's sort of like Nalia in this respect. No, he's not useless, but he's definitely overshadowed by the other NPCs.
Actually, it looks like I spoke too soon. I was looking at the files, which have the correct stats, but it looks like the Polymorph opcode may still not really work properly and give those stats to the shapeshifted druid. Sorry. Looks like Shapeshifting is still gimped.
e: It's kind of insane that this has no included fix. I'd say you should wait for Refinements to be updated for compatibility, then use that fix component, as it's the most elegant one I've come across.
In some ways, it's actually worse. Greater Werewolf no longer gives 25 con, meaning no regeneration.
Cernd isn't useless; too many people are just trying to use him wrong. He's not Jaheira, and trying to use him as a melee/tank character won't work. I realize that's probably how the Shapeshifter was intended, but it doesn't function in that capacity because no werewolf will EVER outmatch the kind of hurt a 'pure' melee class can deliver. Not to mention survivability gains from Hardiness etc. Instead, have him hang back and cast druid spells, and use a sling when needed. You might be astonished at what a druid can bring to the table when they're not in the front line (i.e. you don't have to worry nearly as much about spell interruptions). Creeping Doom, Greater Elemental Summoning, practically limitless Fire Elementals...mmm.
@mylegbig I would have agreed with you that druids were underwhelming in SoA, but in ToB they get much, much better. Not only do they get some nice HLAs, but the numbers of spells they can cast goes up dramatically at level 15 (just beyond the SoA xp cap).
Actually, it looks like I spoke too soon. I was looking at the files, which have the correct stats, but it looks like the Polymorph opcode may still not really work properly and give those stats to the shapeshifted druid. Sorry. Looks like Shapeshifting is still gimped.
e: It's kind of insane that this has no included fix. I'd say you should wait for Refinements to be updated for compatibility, then use that fix component, as it's the most elegant one I've come across.
In some ways, it's actually worse. Greater Werewolf no longer gives 25 con, meaning no regeneration.
I'm going to look into that one. I'm hoping its more of a bug rather than something deliberate. Getting 1hp/10 seconds is not exactly overpowered
I have never used Cernd before but this thread has convinced me to use him. There are no "useless" NPCs; there are only players who are not using the NPC correctly.
I have never used Cernd before but this thread has convinced me to use him. There are no "useless" NPCs; there are only players who are not using the NPC correctly.
Cernd is widely considered to be "the worst NPC" because he's just so underwhelming compared to the other NPCs. He has nothing particularly special about him in terms of equipment or in terms of abilities. His spellcasting is nice-ish, but the game throws so many spellcasters at you (even Jaheria, who is also a druid) that access to the druid circle doesn't really matter.
Druids are so underwhelming in Baldur's Gate II because most of their really good spells (Lightning Call, for instance) involve being outside under the open air. In Baldur's Gate they rocked because most encounters took place outside, but in BGII the amount of open-air fighting you do is rather limited. It's almost all dungeon crawling and other such things. It doesn't help Cernd's case that he can't really take a hit unless you over-kit him or if he's in Werewolf Mode (which means he can't cast anyways) when other characters can take hits by default and therefore are better off from getting kitted out.
I mean, powergaming isn't really required to beat Baldur's Gate II, but call an axe an axe. When it comes down to stats and equipment and all of that other business, there just isn't a reason to use Cernd when you're offered so many other opportunities.
You lost me at "nice-ish" spellcasting. Right. Insect Plague? He gets it before Jaheira, and more of them, too.
Well like I meant to say, Cernd is the "least useful NPC" in the game, and there are better routes to go then with Cernd, plain and simple. Can you use him in a group? Yes. Will he be the main dish that holds your party together? No, not a chance. Not a chance in hell. He'd basically be there as an extra caster, because as a werewolf, which he was meant to be, he's bad. So bad.
Can someone please explain to me, precisely how Cernd is "Useless"? And by explain to me, I mean bring up a valid argument and not something like "His WIS score is useless. He can't wear armour. His personality is crap." Purely because Jaheria's personality is bad, if you want to pin point a personality flaw between the two companions.
As Elminster pointed out, he is a far better Druid Caster than Jaheria. She may withstand one or two more blows, but that doesn't make Cernd "useless". The fact he's super easy to get at the start of the game, makes him a very viable companion. He requires no effort, really. And how is his Shapeshifting bad...? His Shapeshifting is quite strong, actually. People underestimate Cernd so badly. I was using Cernd in my party back when I was like 6... He was viable then and he's viable now. Perhaps you don't know how to use Cernd to his highest potential or what items to give him specifically? I always found that Jaheria was just a bad party member altogether. But that's just my opinion.
In short, if you want a Spellcaster, Cernd is the obvious choice.
If you want a crappy Spellcaster for most of the game who will spend more time bashing the NPCs with her raw strength, then Jaheria /might/ be a better choice. Just because she wears armour doesn't make her any less Druid-Squishy in combat.
And how is Jaheira "crappy" at spell-casting? Shapeshifting is terribad. You want details on how bad Shapeshifting is? Just look up any oversight on the issue. It blows. It's the worst Druid kit. He'd be better off as a regular druid; at least then he could wear *armor* and use weapons that don't suck (if you can count werewolf claws as weapons). That basically just leaves him as a caster druid who can't even wear armor.
On top of everything else, I'd say right now the cleric spell pool is a lot better than the druid one; I can think of 2, maybe 3 druid spells I would love as a cleric based character.
Overall, he's "passable". But Jaheira can defend herself and hit back, making her still better than Cernd.
I have never used Cernd before but this thread has convinced me to use him. There are no "useless" NPCs; there are only players who are not using the NPC correctly.
Comments
Another fact is that people don't like Anomnomnomen or Korgan, but none of them said that they are useless like Cernd. And it has nothing to do with powergaming. It's more about RP, because Cernd's personality really sucks.
However, that goes with what @ZelgadisGW said. Its not a fact, its just mere opinion in a stream of opinions.
Fact is that 90% of people in a poll or something don't like Cernd - this is a fact. Sociology. And that is a fact
Opinions are -not- fact. Its when the opinion is proven true via an experiment of some sort that is when it is fact. I mean, I could say that Hexxat is the best NPC in BG2EE, and have a couple dozen people agree with me. Does that make it fact? No. No, no it does not. I would have to make a hypothesis, test the hypothesis, probably via a poll, and see how many people agree or disagree.
Just because some people don't like Cernd doesn't make him the worst NPC. Just as my dislike of Anomen doesn't make him the worst NPC.
So, yeah, get it straight, saying a mystical number to make it seem like its a majority without any real proof is not really smart. Until you do an experiment. Saying 90% of people don't like Cernd is just silly.
So, I say make a poll, and determine how many people like Cernd, and vise versa, but don't spout out a random number and call it fact.
TL:DR - Make a poll, see how many people do or don't like Cernd. Don't use numbers unless they can be proven.
*clear throat* Now that I got that rant out of the way.
Cernd is actually a pretty interesting guy. I mean I don't approve of him leaving his pregnant wife to go be a druid, but that's his choice in the long run.
Other effects will also probably apply, making shapeshifting slightly better than in vanilla.
Druids are so underwhelming in Baldur's Gate II because most of their really good spells (Lightning Call, for instance) involve being outside under the open air. In Baldur's Gate they rocked because most encounters took place outside, but in BGII the amount of open-air fighting you do is rather limited. It's almost all dungeon crawling and other such things. It doesn't help Cernd's case that he can't really take a hit unless you over-kit him or if he's in Werewolf Mode (which means he can't cast anyways) when other characters can take hits by default and therefore are better off from getting kitted out.
I mean, powergaming isn't really required to beat Baldur's Gate II, but call an axe an axe. When it comes down to stats and equipment and all of that other business, there just isn't a reason to use Cernd when you're offered so many other opportunities.
If (and i'm assuming this is the case) popular opinion regards cernd as being the most useless npc, then yes you can claim 'the community regard cernd as the most useless npc' as a fact.
Or alternatively just claim that our opinions have to be founded on data and spend all day arguing about data.
Unless you get the Shapeshifter Rebalancing tweak, and give him the bonuses he's supposed to get, then he really is the worst NPC in the game in terms of usefullness.
Anyways, the problem with Cernd is that he doesn't do anything particularly well. He's not much of a divine caster because druids are underwhelming in this game. He's not great in melee because even the greater werewolf only has +2 1d6 claws and bad thac0. He can also only do one of those things at a time. In contrast, Jaheira can both cast and fight seamlessly and is a much better fighter. He's sort of like Nalia in this respect. No, he's not useless, but he's definitely overshadowed by the other NPCs. In some ways, it's actually worse. Greater Werewolf no longer gives 25 con, meaning no regeneration.
@mylegbig I would have agreed with you that druids were underwhelming in SoA, but in ToB they get much, much better. Not only do they get some nice HLAs, but the numbers of spells they can cast goes up dramatically at level 15 (just beyond the SoA xp cap).
They get a few useful spells, but most of what they can cast is junk.
And I would imagine that the whole point of a shapeshifter kit would be to shapeshift and fight enemies, but it still seems too weak to do that.
And by explain to me, I mean bring up a valid argument and not something like "His WIS score is useless. He can't wear armour. His personality is crap." Purely because Jaheria's personality is bad, if you want to pin point a personality flaw between the two companions.
As Elminster pointed out, he is a far better Druid Caster than Jaheria. She may withstand one or two more blows, but that doesn't make Cernd "useless". The fact he's super easy to get at the start of the game, makes him a very viable companion. He requires no effort, really. And how is his Shapeshifting bad...? His Shapeshifting is quite strong, actually. People underestimate Cernd so badly. I was using Cernd in my party back when I was like 6... He was viable then and he's viable now. Perhaps you don't know how to use Cernd to his highest potential or what items to give him specifically? I always found that Jaheria was just a bad party member altogether. But that's just my opinion.
In short, if you want a Spellcaster, Cernd is the obvious choice.
If you want a crappy Spellcaster for most of the game who will spend more time bashing the NPCs with her raw strength, then Jaheria /might/ be a better choice. Just because she wears armour doesn't make her any less Druid-Squishy in combat.
On top of everything else, I'd say right now the cleric spell pool is a lot better than the druid one; I can think of 2, maybe 3 druid spells I would love as a cleric based character.
Overall, he's "passable". But Jaheira can defend herself and hit back, making her still better than Cernd.
She becomes a goddess, eventually.