Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Categories

Axis & Allies 1942 Online is now available in Early Access! Buy it on Steam. The FAQ is available.
New Premium Module: Tyrants of the Moonsea! Read More
Attention, new and old users! Please read the new rules of conduct for the forums, and we hope you enjoy your stay!

It's a great pity *spoiler*

24

Comments

  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    @rdarken
    I wouldn't mind seeing what a modder could do with Clara, but Overhaul should move on to bigger, better things.

    @22longZ
    Not really, no.
    I'm pointing out how demanding that a white woman, one that most everybody making the demand are (perhaps vainly) hoping is straight, replace a black woman who is decidedly lesbian could very easily be seen as motivated by bigotry either against a particular ethnicity or sexual orientation.

    Eudaemoniumjackjack
  • DarkDoggDarkDogg Member Posts: 598
    Mermidion said:


    i also have dorn in the party,which is basicly a black male.And Viconia who is also not white.

    Dorn is not black - he is GREEN! =)
    Well, and Viconia, she just looks like white painted in blue :P

  • 22longZ22longZ Member Posts: 19
    Yeah, yeah, I get it @Schneidend. And you are totally right. Such preferences could be based on bigotry. But can you not for second imagine that this demand isn't based on the fact that Clara is white? No? Well then of course everyone who would like to save Clara must be racists. There couldn't be any reason beyond that! ... Seriously?

    Quartzbooinyoureyes
  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    @22longZ
    You'll note that I never suggested there couldn't be another reason. But, considering Clara was never meant to be a character herself and has no personality, yet people are clamoring for her to replace another character, those other reasons seem pretty flimsy to me. And, the ability to hide behind those reasons seems convenient and gladly seized upon.

    EudaemoniumBasillicumjackjack
  • Aron740Aron740 Member Posts: 153
    I really like the new Hexxat and her cool color scheme(clothes...) and could not care less that she is lesbian(more things in common I guess..?), still I am a bit sad that my male char could not romance her.

    But the option to save Clara would be most welcome even if Clara would not have any personal quests because options are awesome. And people would be silly if they do not want to see more options in a game like this.

    +Question for any sneaky dev: Is Hexxats portrait perhaps inspired from a certain *cough* pornstar? A certain "misty" pornstar if I remember correctly?

  • markthesharkmarktheshark Member Posts: 57
    edited November 2013
    I think, in part, the clamoring for Clara is the desire for a thief who fits in with a good party. Which Hexxat clearly does not. I know I would love an alternate to Jan--whom even my paladin is tempted to permanently repair his turnip reflex.

    As for Hexxat herself, I'm very much looking forward to having her in my Evil Bard party after I complete my current run-through.

    booinyoureyes
  • AyiekieAyiekie Member Posts: 792

    @22longZ
    You'll note that I never suggested there couldn't be another reason. But, considering Clara was never meant to be a character herself and has no personality, yet people are clamoring for her to replace another character, those other reasons seem pretty flimsy to me. And, the ability to hide behind those reasons seems convenient and gladly seized upon.

    With all due respect, Schneidend, as one of the people who was asking for that, I rather resent your implication. I like Hexxat just fine and don't care one whit about Clara's ethnicity (or, for that matter, sexuality). I also gave several reasons why I liked the idea.

    booinyoureyes
  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,826
    Here's my rhetorical question for you all:

    WHY DOES IT MATTER?

    FlashburnFFGQbertbooinyoureyes
  • AranthysAranthys Member Posts: 694
    edited November 2013

    @rdarken
    I wouldn't mind seeing what a modder could do with Clara, but Overhaul should move on to bigger, better things.

    @22longZ
    Not really, no.
    I'm pointing out how demanding that a white woman, one that most everybody making the demand are (perhaps vainly) hoping is straight, replace a black woman who is decidedly lesbian could very easily be seen as motivated by bigotry either against a particular ethnicity or sexual orientation.

    @22longZ
    You'll note that I never suggested there couldn't be another reason. But, considering Clara was never meant to be a character herself and has no personality, yet people are clamoring for her to replace another character, those other reasons seem pretty flimsy to me. And, the ability to hide behind those reasons seems convenient and gladly seized upon.

    Come on, that's a stupid statement.
    Using your same reasoning would mean that the original BG2 developers were racist simply because Denahyr was gotten rid of in BG2 by beeing killed.
    Or because the only "asian-ish" guy is a traitor.
    Or whatever other goddamn reason that absolutely make no sense.

    Hell, I'm not even for Clara becoming a full fledged NPC, but there's no way I can let go that kind of bold statement.

    booinyoureyes
  • 17651765 Member Posts: 66

    Far too many people are taking the races and romances of the NPCs far too seriously as of late. Why is that? Those are relatively unimportant aspects of the game. If, however, you feel they are important then they are all things which can be resolved relatively easily. If you dislike a portrait then change it. If you want to romance an NPC then edit the variables to make it possible. If you don't want to romance an NPC then don't do it.

    Turns out that BG2:Relationship Simulator is hella popular among some people.

    QuartzFlashburnMathsorcerer
  • FlashburnFlashburn Member Posts: 1,724
    Here we go again. This shouldn't even matter to anyone but apparently we've got a lot of people here who feel threatened by something different.

    image

    QuartzrdarkenMathsorcerer
  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,826

    DarkDogg said:

    I haven't seen such dicsussions about Dynaheir and her race...

    Because Dynaheir was put into the game, before social justice was a thing on the internet.
    DING DING DING!!

    Y'all are fighting fire with fire.

    booinyoureyes
  • 17651765 Member Posts: 66
    Quartz said:

    Here's my rhetorical question for you all:

    WHY DOES IT MATTER?

    uh because racism is a bad thing and racists are terrible people, and when you see people spouting racism you should confront their idiotic views rather than just saying "who cares if people are racist its just a game hurr durr"

    Ayiekie
  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,826
    edited November 2013
    @1765
    1765 said:

    Quartz said:

    Here's my rhetorical question for you all:

    WHY DOES IT MATTER?

    uh because racism is a bad thing and racists are terrible people, and when you see people spouting racism you should confront their idiotic views rather than just saying "who cares if people are racist its just a game hurr durr"
    Sure, maybe confront them a bit on it. But the talk going around here is fighting fire with fire. That's not going to help *anything.* You think you're the holy white knight here, but you're not. You're wrestling with pigs, the pigs like it and you get dirty in the process.

    booinyoureyes
  • AyiekieAyiekie Member Posts: 792
    No, there were some people who absolutely deserved to get called out. What I object to is painting everybody with an interest in expanding the Clara character with the same brush.

    I also disagree with the portraying of all interest in Clara as being anti-Hexxat. Clara/Hexxat is not a zero-sum game. I like Hexxat. She's awesome. If Clara gets content, it will not take away from Hexxat's awesomeness.

    Quartzbooinyoureyes
  • 17651765 Member Posts: 66
    As an example when someone starts a thread with this:

    "My hot thief got transformed into a weird looking lesbian black woman.... yay am so happy... unless anyone know if i can keep the first thief haxxat?"

    They are obviously a racist. If someone says that you're being racist, and explains why, and you think to yourself "no way am i racist I just like the look of white people more than black people its just preferences yeah", sorry to break it to you, but you have a racist mindset.

  • FFGFFG Member Posts: 51
    Arguing about race and sexual orientation in the context of this character is completely retarded, end of story.

    QuartzMathsorcererbooinyoureyes
  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,826
    1765 said:

    As an example when someone starts a thread with this:

    "My hot thief got transformed into a weird looking lesbian black woman.... yay am so happy... unless anyone know if i can keep the first thief haxxat?"

    They are obviously a racist. If someone says that you're being racist, and explains why, and you think to yourself "no way am i racist I just like the look of white people more than black people its just preferences yeah", sorry to break it to you, but you have a racist mindset.

    image

    QbertGodKaiserHellAron740booinyoureyes
  • MornmagorMornmagor Member Posts: 1,160
    edited November 2013
    1765 said:

    Quartz said:

    Here's my rhetorical question for you all:

    WHY DOES IT MATTER?

    uh because racism is a bad thing and racists are terrible people, and when you see people spouting racism you should confront their idiotic views rather than just saying "who cares if people are racist its just a game hurr durr"
    If people make racist statements, the mods will lock the thread and ban the people involved.

    Racism is bad, among with other things, and so is reverse-racism.

    Let's not get to the point where anyone will have to shut up, instead of voicing their preference, in fear that they are called bigots or racists.

    Some people, indeed made comments that implied racism or homophobia, but let's not generalize and mix preference with bigotry for everyone.

    In my opinion, let the thread die, or someone lock it, these things never end well.

    QuartzFFGQbertbooinyoureyes
  • DisgruntlerDisgruntler Member Posts: 100
    Now, are there any legitimate reasons that would stop Clara being a possible NPC if chosen over Hexxat?
    I'm talking story or gameplay wise.

    I can only think of pros:
    - a possible neutral/good pure thief
    - an actual motivation for good parties to even join that quest
    - a fulfilling good end to that quest

    Clara also has good reasons to join the player, because she's down on her luck and they already worked together.

    Honestly, I can't see a single downside.

    Quartzbooinyoureyes
  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,826
    Mornmagor said:

    Racism is bad, among with other things, and so is reverse-racism.

    It says something really sad about our culture that we need the term "reverse-racism." Racism is racism. And yet, we must resort to using such terms to try to get through to all the extremists who are all the way on the other side, still believing themselves to be white knights when they're just as terrible as the other side.

    MornmagorAwong124Qbertbooinyoureyes
  • AyiekieAyiekie Member Posts: 792
    edited November 2013
    .
    1765 said:

    As an example when someone starts a thread with this:

    "My hot thief got transformed into a weird looking lesbian black woman.... yay am so happy... unless anyone know if i can keep the first thief haxxat?"

    They are obviously a racist. If someone says that you're being racist, and explains why, and you think to yourself "no way am i racist I just like the look of white people more than black people its just preferences yeah", sorry to break it to you, but you have a racist mindset.

    Erm. No, sorry, your aesthetic preference for a certain genotype does not make you racist. There is nothing wrong with liking how white women look better than black women, in general. There is nothing wrong with liking how black women look better than east asian women, in general. There are certain physical characteristics common to ethnic phenotypes and having a preference between them is just as natural as liking a certain hair colour, or liking dimpled cheeks, or liking derrieres that aren't flat, or any other physical preference.

    Now, the quote you mentioned is pretty bad, but that's for a lot more than just the author's presumed preference for caucasian phenotypes.

    QuartzDarkDoggGodKaiserHellbooinyoureyes
  • MornmagorMornmagor Member Posts: 1,160
    There is a term i think, that is better than reverse-racism, and it's called verbal fascism.

    But it's a pretty HEAVY word, and i don't want to use it. In no way i think that is happening here and now, but since sometimes lines are thin, we need to be careful not to cross them.

    Quartzbooinyoureyes
  • AyiekieAyiekie Member Posts: 792
    Quartz said:

    It says something really sad about our culture that we need the term "reverse-racism." Racism is racism. And yet, we must resort to using such terms to try to get through to all the extremists who are all the way on the other side, still believing themselves to be white knights when they're just as terrible as the other side.

    Um. No. Several posters here might be overzealous, but in no way shape or form are they even in the same ballpark as some of the people who posted in the other thread. Hell, they're not even playing the same sport.

    Extremism in the defence of liberty is indeed a vice, but it's still a way better vice than extremism in the defence of tyranny.

  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,826
    Ayiekie said:

    Quartz said:

    It says something really sad about our culture that we need the term "reverse-racism." Racism is racism. And yet, we must resort to using such terms to try to get through to all the extremists who are all the way on the other side, still believing themselves to be white knights when they're just as terrible as the other side.

    Um. No. Several posters here might be overzealous, but in no way shape or form are they even in the same ballpark as some of the people who posted in the other thread. Hell, they're not even playing the same sport.

    Extremism in the defence of liberty is indeed a vice, but it's still a way better vice than extremism in the defence of tyranny.
    I respect your opinion on this, but we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

  • Awong124Awong124 Member Posts: 2,643
    edited November 2013
    Quartz said:

    Mornmagor said:

    Racism is bad, among with other things, and so is reverse-racism.

    It says something really sad about our culture that we need the term "reverse-racism." Racism is racism. And yet, we must resort to using such terms to try to get through to all the extremists who are all the way on the other side, still believing themselves to be white knights when they're just as terrible as the other side.
    I've said it on this forum before, but political correctness is getting out of hand. And people trying so hard to be politically correct just makes the situation worse. To me it just seems like they are bigots in denial trying to make everything sound PC while trying to cover their own secret latent bigotry.

    QuartzQbertGodKaiserHellbooinyoureyes
  • zerckanzerckan Member Posts: 178
    I don't think thread closing is about racism.
    That Hexxats portrait probably based on someone in real life.
    Should be one of developers girlfriend or so.
    And finding that some people find her ugly offended him and there you have your thread closed.

  • FFGFFG Member Posts: 51
    zerckan said:

    I don't think thread closing is about racism.
    That Hexxats portrait probably based on someone in real life.
    Should be one of developers girlfriend or so.
    And finding that some people find her ugly offended him and there you have your thread closed.

    You can't be serious.

  • AyiekieAyiekie Member Posts: 792
    Awong124 said:


    I've said it on this forum before, but political correctness is getting out of hand. And people trying so hard to be politically correct just makes the situation worse.

    Hahahahahahaha. No. I'm not going to argue with you, or point out obvious recent newsworthy events that make a mockery of your statement, because it will just get the thread locked even faster than it clearly will be, but no.

This discussion has been closed.