On the Aerie and Viconia fanart topic: On DeviantArt, the tagline "baldur's gate aerie" puts out 327 images. "Baldur's gate viconia" shows 227 images. I rest my case.
Nothing in particular. Just games in general where your character has an option for their love interest, there is never a single mother option, even if the game has a single mother in it that is of comparable age to your character.
Same reason why there's no fat girl option. Or games where you flip burgers all day and get yelled at by your boss. Sure, it may be closer to realism for some, but how many people actually want to pay money to experience that?
What happens when her child is retrieved? She rides off into the sunset with child in tow.
Your unspoken assumption here is very interesting and germaine to the point, actually.
Why would she do that? In most RPGs your quest is far, far more important than whatever happens to anyone's child, and male characters with children like Carth are expected to prioritise saving the world/federation/republic/plane of existence/universe over what happens to their child. I don't think I've ever heard anybody express disbelief or outrage that Carth never leaves the PC in KOTOR (romantically involved or no) regardless of the outcome of his search to find his son (including "getting over it" and continuing to fight for the greater good if said son dies).
So why is the default assumption that a woman will "ride off into the sunset with child in tow"?
Question is rhetorical, of course. Don't take that as saying you're sexist, BTW.
You're over thinking it. Why can't we just have single girls and guys hit it off and leave the complicated marital/child status out of it... romance after all is just a bit of filler between the questing and goblin skull-cracking ;D
Primarily because the age of video games players has trended upwards for three decades, and at this point is thirty-something. Games idealise things, of course, but there is no reason the only people (especially females) presented as ideally romanceable in games should not include single parents, since, y'know, single parents in real life frequently manage to balance their responsibilities, their dreams, and (if applicable) their desires for romance.
To put it another way, games probably should reflect the realities of the people who play games, which is pretty much every demographic.
As far as relationships go (romantic and otherwise), how important it is depends on the person. I've never been able to sustain any interest in playing Icewind Dale, but Baldur's Gate is far more interesting to me because of the colourful cast of characters and the relationships they have with both the PC and each other.
Oh damn. Now that, @Buttercheese is a very good question.
Unfortunately, it's very rare - if ever, I can't honestly think of an example - that D&D long-lived elves have family relationships that depart from human expectations in the way that they obviously would given their huge lifespans (even with the usual constraints of slow maturity and infrequent breeding).
A few other things actually have worked with that concept, though - the Dragonblooded society in the Exalted PnP game (society is structured around great families that may as well be hives, with centuries-old heads at the top, and extremely intricate family webs that are treated with utmost seriousness) comes to mind.
Same reason why there's no fat girl option. Or games where you flip burgers all day and get yelled at by your boss. Sure, it may be closer to realism for some, but how many people actually want to pay money to experience that?
I'd probably pay for a game with a overweight woman as a romantic interest that is not treated as a vehicle for comedy on general principle even if I had no other interest in it.
That's even more true because in popular media, a "fat girl option" actually often means "a girl who looks like a real person of healthy body weight, not like a model with 3% body fat (all of which is on her chest)".
Your unspoken assumption here is very interesting and germaine to the point, actually. So why is the default assumption that a woman will "ride off into the sunset with child in tow"? Question is rhetorical, of course. Don't take that as saying you're sexist, BTW.
I didn't make this sexist, I responded to a question in regards to a specific topic, that is, why aren't there single mother romances? Not single father's, but "single mother's".
In this instance, if she cares so little for the child, as your use of this Carth suggests (whoever that is), then why is she on this all important quest to save her child if only to neglect it in search of further adventure afterwards? Where does the child go? If the child is not dependent on a parent, then why the emphasis on the NPC being a single mother?
Games idealise things, of course, but there is no reason the only people (especially females) presented as ideally romanceable in games should not include single parents, since, y'know, single parents in real life frequently manage to balance their responsibilities, their dreams, and (if applicable) their desires for romance.
To put it another way, games probably should reflect the realities of the people who play games, which is pretty much every demographic.
The reality is that single parents aren't off killing and dieing, because logically SOMEONE has to be looking after the child lol. Do you see single mothers frontlining in wars in real life? It just seems ridiculous that a single parent, nevermind an emphasis on mothers in particular (sexist?), should have to be included in an RPG as a romance option simply because there are single parents in real life.
I didn't make this sexist, I responded to a question in regards to a specific topic, that is, why aren't there single mother romances? Not single father's, but "single mother's".
In this instance, if she cares so little for the child, as your use of this Carth suggests (whoever that is), then why is she on this all important quest to save her child if only to neglect it in search of further adventure afterwards? Where does the child go? If the child is not dependent on a parent, then why the emphasis on the NPC being a single mother.
I like that even after I specifically said "Don't take this as saying you're sexist", you still did.
To answer your questions, I will respond with two of my own:
1) Why does continuing in something that is more important than the life of any one person, as many RPG central quests are (and whose failure would frequently kill mother and child both), constitute "caring so little for the child"?
2) Why does a single mother have to have an "emphasis on the NPC being a single mother"? Why can an NPC, including a romantic interest, not simply be a person who happens to be a single mother?
The reality is that single parents aren't off killing and dieing, because logically SOMEONE has to be looking after the child lol. Do you see single mothers frontlining in wars in real life?
Umm... yes. That has happened. That is happening, right now, in real life. There are, for instance, a startlingly high number of single parents of both genders in the US military.
It just seems ridiculous that a single parent, nevermind an emphasis on mothers in particular (sexist?), should have to be included in an RPG as a romance option simply because there are single parents in real life.
Why would they not be? And why especially would single fathers be okay as romantic interests (as there are several examples of those), but single mothers never be?
I like that even after I specifically said "Don't take this as saying you're sexist", you still did.
Despite declaring to the contrary, your rebuttal was formed around the suggestion that I was indeed being sexist. The mere fact that you felt you had to clarify that I wasn't being sexist would give credence to that. Like I said, the word sexist never had to be mentioned, even though YOU placed particular emphasis on the sex being female.
To answer your questions, I will respond with two of my own: 1) Why does continuing in something that is more important than the life of any one person, as many RPG central quests are (and whose failure would frequently kill mother and child both), constitute "caring so little for the child"?
Cernd is vilified for neglecting his child; rightly so too imo. Could you imagine him being romanceable thereafter? Technically he is no longer a single father, since the care of that child is no longer his. No different to the mother who abandons her child to the care of another in search of a 'greater good'. She forfeits her role as a parent and is no longer a 'single mother' imo.
2) Why does a single mother have to have an "emphasis on the NPC being a single mother"? Why can an NPC, including a romantic interest, not simply be a person who happens to be a single mother?
As mentioned numerous times in previous posts, she cannot be a single mother and not be caring for a child simultaneously.
Umm... yes. That has happened. That is happening, right now, in real life. There are, for instance, a startlingly high number of single parents of both genders in the US military.
Really? The minor is caring for themselves while the parent is a frontline soldier? Or is the child in the care of a guardian? Some people might regard them as a single parent, myself, I would suggest the guardian is the parent, as they are the person caring for them.
Why would they not be? And why especially would single fathers be okay as romantic interests (as there are several examples of those), but single mothers never be?
I've never come across an example of a single father who is romanceable, certainly not 'several' examples.
I've taken a direct parenting approach in these examples. Technically, biologically, a person can be a single parent and not be caring for their child. But I doubt that is what you meant by a romanceable single parent. If that isn't what you meant, then I think you're clutching at straws placing emphasis on someone being a single parent, with no child in sight, since any number of NPCs could theoretically be a single parent and we're just not aware of it.
Despite declaring to the contrary, your rebuttal was formed around the suggestion that I was indeed being sexist. The mere fact that you felt you had to clarify that I wasn't being sexist would give credence to that. Like I said, the word sexist never had to be mentioned, even though YOU placed particular emphasis on the sex being female.
You're incorrect. My rebuttal was formed out of the notion that you, like myself, are a product of a culture with deeply ingrained attitudes towards what is acceptable and expected behaviour for women and that this influences what you think about the matter without you consciously realising it. The reason I said you should not take my comment as implying you were sexist is because I was not implying you were sexist.
If I was trying to say you were sexist, I would say you were sexist. I am not shy or coy about calling people out on that.
As mentioned numerous times in previous posts, she cannot be a single mother and not be caring for a child simultaneously.
That's relying on your personal idiosyncratic definition of the term. I am defining a "single mother" as "a woman who has had a child that is not in a romantic relationship with anyone".
Really? The minor is caring for themselves while the parent is a frontline soldier? Or is the child in the care of a guardian? Some people might regard them as a single parent, myself, I would suggest the guardian is the parent, as they are the person caring for them.
Again, however, your definition of the term is not a standard one. Lots of single parents have to keep their children in the care of guardians because they work jobs (often plural) that do not allow them to spend enough time at home to care for the child; those individuals are generally referred to in the media and common discourse as single parents, and they are demographically considered to be single parents.
Plus, the difference still remains that whatever you want to call that "class of person", there are several romanceable male ones (including in some fairly high-profile and prominent games) and seemingly no romanceable female ones.
I've never come across an example of a single father who is romanceable, certainly not 'several' examples.
Well... they exist? I mean, what do you expect me to say here, that Carth of Knights of the Old Republic doesn't exist because you've presumably not played that game? I can give you another one off the top of my head, too: Sky from Jade Empire.
Yet, despite thinking about it, asking someone else about it, and even googling for it, I've yet to find a game where you romance a woman who is a single mother (by the standard definition of the term).
(Well, I imagine there's a few in pornographic games, but that's not exactly the same category, for the most part.)
Times have changed. American video games in the 90s had to be a lot more prudish than they are now. I'm honestly surprised they got away with Aerie getting pregnant. Now adults in video games are allowed to flirt and banter in ways more resembling how actual adult people frequently do. The medium's grown up a (very, very little) bit.
Late 90s, I'd say. I can think of a counter-example in the mid 90s - Daggerfall, with an explicit sex scene in one of the books and upper-body nudity (both on the character's image, and with dancers in several temples).
I have to say that the 90's were a lot LESS prudish than they are now, as there was a lot less exposure on games. Nobody except those whom it related directly to knew or cared that Daggerfall had nudity and explicit text-sex, or that you could kill children in Fallout and prostitute yourself (or your spouse if I remember correctly), or any other issues.
That's a fair point, but I'd have to say that's because of how far under the mainstream radar those games were. I doubt Baldur's Gate (a much more popular and well-known RPG with the recognisable brand of D&D) could have gotten away with nudity or explicit sexual references (not that WotC would have let it happen in any case, I expect).
As I see it, the reason Baldur's Gate isn't particular explicit in any of it's content is mainly that it was a direct descendant of the classic RPGs like the SSI Goldbox games, and there was no precedent for doing anything particular risqué or explicit in computer RPGs at the time. Certainly, BG2 was much higher profile, and also made in a time where public awareness of games started to be higher, so that may have been a factor in it's lack of explicitness. I rather think that i's more a product of the developers deciding on a different approach, rather than any form of (self)-censorship.
You're incorrect. My rebuttal was formed out of the notion that you, like myself, are a product of a culture with deeply ingrained attitudes towards what is acceptable and expected behaviour for women and that this influences what you think about the matter without you consciously realising it. The reason I said you should not take my comment as implying you were sexist is because I was not implying you were sexist.
And round we go. We're only fixated on it being a mother because YOU are fixated on it. If you substitute the word father for mother in any of my previous arguments you will have the same result.
Secondly, as mentioned above, why did you need to clarify that I wasn't being sexist? Did anyone previous to that remark feel the need to make that clarification?
Thirdly, the fact that you think this is some kind of ingrained response in regards to a particular sex, absolutely means that you feel I am being sexist by acting it out.
That's relying on your personal idiosyncratic definition of the term. I am defining a "single mother" as "a woman who has had a child that is not in a romantic relationship with anyone".
Than how do we know that there aren't NPCs that fit that bill already? Why would we need to be palying an RPG and be told that this particular woman in her distant past gave birth to a child who is no longer on the scene? Why can't it just be a female NPC adventurer shacking up with another adventurer...this is getting pretty bloody thin at this point, that jsut for the sake of your ego, you feel that there should be this token female that once gave birth to a child and is now romanceable.
Again, however, your definition of the term is not a standard one. Lots of single parents have to keep their children in the care of guardians because they work jobs (often plural) that do not allow them to spend enough time at home to care for the child; those individuals are generally referred to in the media and common discourse as single parents, and they are demographically considered to be single parents.
You're talking of childcare? I'm talking of someone who abandoned their child to go serve a 'higher cause'...isn't that what you said? Not someone who stepped out for some light adventuring and will be returning home at the end of the week
Well... they exist? I mean, what do you expect me to say here, that Carth of Knights of the Old Republic doesn't exist because you've presumably not played that game? I can give you another one off the top of my head, too: Sky from Jade Empire.
Didn't you say this Carth abandoned his child to serve a higher good?
Yet, despite thinking about it, asking someone else about it, and even googling for it, I've yet to find a game where you romance a woman who is a single mother (by the standard definition of the term).
There's a reason for that, and it has nothing to do with some vendetta against single mothers, supposedly ingrained into our very culture. It's because you can't abandon your child, shacking up with some adventurer as you slay your way across the country, and still be a single mother or father, other than at a purely biological level (which you never meant, made apparent by your original argument for the 'save the child quest').
To respond to the initial observation: if you don't think BGII has a bunch of sexual references of varying kinds, you possibly need to look again.
For example: look at the icon for the medallion from Galvena's Festhall.
Lots of references, but a lot less explicit than say Fallout 2 or Daggerfall. Of course, Daggerfall comes off as decidedly adolescent in its approach to sexual content, something like an eroticized Elmore drawing
OK, I completly lost track of the conversation :I I hope I can pick up somewhere.
To the topic of why there are male fathers in the games but no females: That's so obvious it hurts. (Well, to me at least)
1. It's a normal thing in society for fathers go to war, always has been. Female soldiers are still not the norm and let alone the idea is new. It's because of the old roles of that men work while woman stay at home to raise the children.
2. The idea of making single mothers attractive is fairly new, too. In fact, the earliest case *I* heard it from the series "Two and a half man" and that series is not that old. I will be so bold to assume that it has something to do with the infamous "male pride" of not wanting to raise another man's (= rival) offspring.
3. Which leads me to point three. Single fathers on the other hand where always be considered a legit target for woman. It's the female instinct to look for a man who would be a good father. So, if he already *is* a good father, he automatically becomes more attractive. Not to mention that the materal instinct starts to boil over when there are children around (which can be really annoying :I Stupid body).
4. The varying timespan of being fertile. It's a fact that men stay a lot longer fertile than women do. There are a lot more real-life cases of a man having children that are easily 20 years apart in age than there are women, for obvious reasons (as always there are exeptions but this is the norm). Which is also one of the reasons why it's more common for women to date men that er older than her and less the other way around (my own boyfriend is 5 years older than me for example).
It's a good thing that genderroles are becoming less and less important and therefor the possibilities grow. I am very eager to see what future videogames come up with. PS: Dragon Age 3 will have Morrigan with a child, I don't know if she will be a companion again, let alone dateable, but she would qualify as a single mom.
To the actual thread-topic
@LiamEsler I am not denying it I am just saying it's a lot more apperant than to the original ~ But like I said, maybe it's just my immagination.
Oh, and I do remember Fallout to being rather explicit. I played it when I was 12 or something and *poof* I bribed one of the bad guys with sex to proceed in my quest xD Ah yes, videogames ~ Fun ~
To deny the fact that single mothers have historically been maligned in our culture misses the mark about as much as thinking that an observation about how said culture influences our perceptions is an accusation of sexism. I consider myself a feminist, but as a male I still have to acknowledge that some of my perceptions regarding women have been unconsciously influenced (like it or not) by the privilege I'm afforded in a patriarchal society. I too don't think @bman86 was being sexist and don't think @Ayiekie was trying to make that accusation.
The point still stands that single mothers, who represent a significant number in our society, are not typically (or ever) represented in games. There are cultural stigmas that have been attached to single motherhood that have not been attached to single fatherhood, so I think it's valid to question whether the lack of representation is problematic. Gender bias is absolutely rampant in the video game industry, but it doesn't mean that every deficit in representation is intentional (though some of it very much is). It just means that - in an industry where products are designed mostly for and by males - you're naturally going to run into issues like this.
I actually have played a game with a fat girl option. You know what her personal quest involves? Yup, helping her diet and lose weight.
Hahahah! Wow. On a somewhat less 'lighter' note , that's legitimately an admirable quest.
Well, that depends, lol. Is she unhealthy/obese, or is she a little chubby and the quest is designed to "fix" her so that she can become desirable to the male player? Knowing video games, I'm gonna throw my chips in with the latter
Hold your horses, I was accussed of being sexist? I must have missed that part xD I thoght @bman86 and @Ayiekie where accusing each other.
Anyway, I don't even want to take a side in this discussion. I am just trying to understand what is and why it is. That has nothing to do with being feministic or not (which is a word I really don't like because it implies extremism, even though many people on the webs pretend it doesn't). I try to adress the facts and just because the roles of female characters in videogames have been very sexists in the past, it doesn't mean it will be like that in the future.
You can't change the past and there where valid (while maybe not good) reasons for this trend. Mainly the target demographics of videogames and the people who worked on these games. Which most of the time where male, so who can blame them? I won't. Maybe I am even the lucky one at being a woman because I learned to identify myself with male characters due to media. This is an oportunity that men did not get in reverse.
But I am very optimistic that this will change for the future thanks to more and more well written female characters coming up.
For modern games with very stereotypical characters, I can say only one thing: Stereotypes are funny. Let me laught at them even if they are sexist. Not that I would take them serious at any time anyway.
I actually have played a game with a fat girl option. You know what her personal quest involves? Yup, helping her diet and lose weight.
Hahahah! Wow. On a somewhat less 'lighter' note , that's legitimately an admirable quest.
Well, that depends, lol. Is she unhealthy/obese, or is she a little chubby and the quest is designed to "fix" her so that she can become desirable to the male player? Knowing video games, I'm gonna throw my chips in with the latter
I actually have played a game with a fat girl option. You know what her personal quest involves? Yup, helping her diet and lose weight.
Hahahah! Wow. On a somewhat less 'lighter' note , that's legitimately an admirable quest.
Well, that depends, lol. Is she unhealthy/obese, or is she a little chubby and the quest is designed to "fix" her so that she can become desirable to the male player? Knowing video games, I'm gonna throw my chips in with the latter
Hold your horses, I was accussed of being sexist? I must have missed that part xD I thoght @bman86 and @Ayiekie where accusing each other.
Anyway, I don't even want to take a side in this discussion. I am just trying to understand what is and why it is. That has nothing to do with being feministic or not (which is a word I really don't like because it implies extremism, even though many people on the webs pretend it doesn't). I try to adress the facts and just because the roles of female characters in videogames have been very sexists in the past, it doesn't mean it will be like that in the future.
You can't change the past and there where valid (while maybe not good) reasons for this trend. Mainly the target demographics of videogames and the people who worked on these games. Which most of the time where male, so who can blame them? I won't. Maybe I am even the lucky one at being a woman because I learned to identify myself with male characters due to media. This is an oportunity that men did not get in reverse.
But I am very optimistic that this will change for the future thanks to more and more well written female characters coming up.
For modern games with very stereotypical characters, I can say only one thing: Stereotypes are funny. Let me laught at them even if they are sexist. Not that I would take them serious at any time anyway.
Sorry about that, I had swapped you and @bman86 by accident and corrected it with an edit.
I agree with your optimism, things are definitely getting better. But the video game industry still has a long way to go, especially with regards to the attitudes of some gamers (not referring to anyone in this thread). As for feminism, it has been linked with extremism only because there has been a concerted effort to label it as such since the word entered popular discourse. Anyone who believes that women deserve equality (and acknowledges that they have not achieved it yet) should be proud to call themselves a feminist imho
Comments
What sane person would want to carry out a child ON THE FLIPPIN BATTLEFIELD???
Magic shmagic, it's still stupid.
Hmmm.... then we also have Tenya's mom... Ariana (obviously) ... uhhh ... I can't think of anyone else right now :I
On DeviantArt, the tagline "baldur's gate aerie" puts out 327 images.
"Baldur's gate viconia" shows 227 images.
I rest my case.
Why would she do that? In most RPGs your quest is far, far more important than whatever happens to anyone's child, and male characters with children like Carth are expected to prioritise saving the world/federation/republic/plane of existence/universe over what happens to their child. I don't think I've ever heard anybody express disbelief or outrage that Carth never leaves the PC in KOTOR (romantically involved or no) regardless of the outcome of his search to find his son (including "getting over it" and continuing to fight for the greater good if said son dies).
So why is the default assumption that a woman will "ride off into the sunset with child in tow"?
Question is rhetorical, of course. Don't take that as saying you're sexist, BTW. Primarily because the age of video games players has trended upwards for three decades, and at this point is thirty-something. Games idealise things, of course, but there is no reason the only people (especially females) presented as ideally romanceable in games should not include single parents, since, y'know, single parents in real life frequently manage to balance their responsibilities, their dreams, and (if applicable) their desires for romance.
To put it another way, games probably should reflect the realities of the people who play games, which is pretty much every demographic.
As far as relationships go (romantic and otherwise), how important it is depends on the person. I've never been able to sustain any interest in playing Icewind Dale, but Baldur's Gate is far more interesting to me because of the colourful cast of characters and the relationships they have with both the PC and each other.
A few other things actually have worked with that concept, though - the Dragonblooded society in the Exalted PnP game (society is structured around great families that may as well be hives, with centuries-old heads at the top, and extremely intricate family webs that are treated with utmost seriousness) comes to mind.
That's even more true because in popular media, a "fat girl option" actually often means "a girl who looks like a real person of healthy body weight, not like a model with 3% body fat (all of which is on her chest)".
In this instance, if she cares so little for the child, as your use of this Carth suggests (whoever that is), then why is she on this all important quest to save her child if only to neglect it in search of further adventure afterwards? Where does the child go? If the child is not dependent on a parent, then why the emphasis on the NPC being a single mother? The reality is that single parents aren't off killing and dieing, because logically SOMEONE has to be looking after the child lol. Do you see single mothers frontlining in wars in real life? It just seems ridiculous that a single parent, nevermind an emphasis on mothers in particular (sexist?), should have to be included in an RPG as a romance option simply because there are single parents in real life.
To answer your questions, I will respond with two of my own:
1) Why does continuing in something that is more important than the life of any one person, as many RPG central quests are (and whose failure would frequently kill mother and child both), constitute "caring so little for the child"?
2) Why does a single mother have to have an "emphasis on the NPC being a single mother"? Why can an NPC, including a romantic interest, not simply be a person who happens to be a single mother? Umm... yes. That has happened. That is happening, right now, in real life. There are, for instance, a startlingly high number of single parents of both genders in the US military. Why would they not be? And why especially would single fathers be okay as romantic interests (as there are several examples of those), but single mothers never be?
Like I said, the word sexist never had to be mentioned, even though YOU placed particular emphasis on the sex being female.
Cernd is vilified for neglecting his child; rightly so too imo. Could you imagine him being romanceable thereafter? Technically he is no longer a single father, since the care of that child is no longer his. No different to the mother who abandons her child to the care of another in search of a 'greater good'. She forfeits her role as a parent and is no longer a 'single mother' imo. As mentioned numerous times in previous posts, she cannot be a single mother and not be caring for a child simultaneously.
Really? The minor is caring for themselves while the parent is a frontline soldier? Or is the child in the care of a guardian? Some people might regard them as a single parent, myself, I would suggest the guardian is the parent, as they are the person caring for them.
I've never come across an example of a single father who is romanceable, certainly not 'several' examples.
I've taken a direct parenting approach in these examples. Technically, biologically, a person can be a single parent and not be caring for their child. But I doubt that is what you meant by a romanceable single parent. If that isn't what you meant, then I think you're clutching at straws placing emphasis on someone being a single parent, with no child in sight, since any number of NPCs could theoretically be a single parent and we're just not aware of it.
If I was trying to say you were sexist, I would say you were sexist. I am not shy or coy about calling people out on that. That's relying on your personal idiosyncratic definition of the term. I am defining a "single mother" as "a woman who has had a child that is not in a romantic relationship with anyone". Again, however, your definition of the term is not a standard one. Lots of single parents have to keep their children in the care of guardians because they work jobs (often plural) that do not allow them to spend enough time at home to care for the child; those individuals are generally referred to in the media and common discourse as single parents, and they are demographically considered to be single parents.
Plus, the difference still remains that whatever you want to call that "class of person", there are several romanceable male ones (including in some fairly high-profile and prominent games) and seemingly no romanceable female ones. Well... they exist? I mean, what do you expect me to say here, that Carth of Knights of the Old Republic doesn't exist because you've presumably not played that game? I can give you another one off the top of my head, too: Sky from Jade Empire.
Yet, despite thinking about it, asking someone else about it, and even googling for it, I've yet to find a game where you romance a woman who is a single mother (by the standard definition of the term).
(Well, I imagine there's a few in pornographic games, but that's not exactly the same category, for the most part.)
For example: look at the icon for the medallion from Galvena's Festhall.
Secondly, as mentioned above, why did you need to clarify that I wasn't being sexist? Did anyone previous to that remark feel the need to make that clarification?
Thirdly, the fact that you think this is some kind of ingrained response in regards to a particular sex, absolutely means that you feel I am being sexist by acting it out. Than how do we know that there aren't NPCs that fit that bill already? Why would we need to be palying an RPG and be told that this particular woman in her distant past gave birth to a child who is no longer on the scene? Why can't it just be a female NPC adventurer shacking up with another adventurer...this is getting pretty bloody thin at this point, that jsut for the sake of your ego, you feel that there should be this token female that once gave birth to a child and is now romanceable.
You're talking of childcare? I'm talking of someone who abandoned their child to go serve a 'higher cause'...isn't that what you said? Not someone who stepped out for some light adventuring and will be returning home at the end of the week Didn't you say this Carth abandoned his child to serve a higher good? There's a reason for that, and it has nothing to do with some vendetta against single mothers, supposedly ingrained into our very culture. It's because you can't abandon your child, shacking up with some adventurer as you slay your way across the country, and still be a single mother or father, other than at a purely biological level (which you never meant, made apparent by your original argument for the 'save the child quest').
I hope I can pick up somewhere.
To the topic of why there are male fathers in the games but no females:
That's so obvious it hurts. (Well, to me at least)
1. It's a normal thing in society for fathers go to war, always has been. Female soldiers are still not the norm and let alone the idea is new. It's because of the old roles of that men work while woman stay at home to raise the children.
2. The idea of making single mothers attractive is fairly new, too. In fact, the earliest case *I* heard it from the series "Two and a half man" and that series is not that old. I will be so bold to assume that it has something to do with the infamous "male pride" of not wanting to raise another man's (= rival) offspring.
3. Which leads me to point three. Single fathers on the other hand where always be considered a legit target for woman. It's the female instinct to look for a man who would be a good father. So, if he already *is* a good father, he automatically becomes more attractive. Not to mention that the materal instinct starts to boil over when there are children around (which can be really annoying :I Stupid body).
4. The varying timespan of being fertile. It's a fact that men stay a lot longer fertile than women do. There are a lot more real-life cases of a man having children that are easily 20 years apart in age than there are women, for obvious reasons (as always there are exeptions but this is the norm). Which is also one of the reasons why it's more common for women to date men that er older than her and less the other way around (my own boyfriend is 5 years older than me for example).
It's a good thing that genderroles are becoming less and less important and therefor the possibilities grow.
I am very eager to see what future videogames come up with.
PS: Dragon Age 3 will have Morrigan with a child, I don't know if she will be a companion again, let alone dateable, but she would qualify as a single mom.
To the actual thread-topic
@LiamEsler
I am not denying it I am just saying it's a lot more apperant than to the original ~
But like I said, maybe it's just my immagination.
Oh, and I do remember Fallout to being rather explicit. I played it when I was 12 or something and *poof* I bribed one of the bad guys with sex to proceed in my quest xD Ah yes, videogames ~ Fun ~
The point still stands that single mothers, who represent a significant number in our society, are not typically (or ever) represented in games. There are cultural stigmas that have been attached to single motherhood that have not been attached to single fatherhood, so I think it's valid to question whether the lack of representation is problematic. Gender bias is absolutely rampant in the video game industry, but it doesn't mean that every deficit in representation is intentional (though some of it very much is). It just means that - in an industry where products are designed mostly for and by males - you're naturally going to run into issues like this.
I thoght @bman86 and @Ayiekie where accusing each other.
Anyway, I don't even want to take a side in this discussion. I am just trying to understand what is and why it is. That has nothing to do with being feministic or not (which is a word I really don't like because it implies extremism, even though many people on the webs pretend it doesn't). I try to adress the facts and just because the roles of female characters in videogames have been very sexists in the past, it doesn't mean it will be like that in the future.
You can't change the past and there where valid (while maybe not good) reasons for this trend. Mainly the target demographics of videogames and the people who worked on these games. Which most of the time where male, so who can blame them? I won't. Maybe I am even the lucky one at being a woman because I learned to identify myself with male characters due to media. This is an oportunity that men did not get in reverse.
But I am very optimistic that this will change for the future thanks to more and more well written female characters coming up.
For modern games with very stereotypical characters, I can say only one thing:
Stereotypes are funny. Let me laught at them even if they are sexist.
Not that I would take them serious at any time anyway.
...
"Be chubby and you will never be with the man of your dreams."
I agree with your optimism, things are definitely getting better. But the video game industry still has a long way to go, especially with regards to the attitudes of some gamers (not referring to anyone in this thread). As for feminism, it has been linked with extremism only because there has been a concerted effort to label it as such since the word entered popular discourse. Anyone who believes that women deserve equality (and acknowledges that they have not achieved it yet) should be proud to call themselves a feminist imho