Sasuke, you're just like me, because you didn't have many friends, and so is that other guy who wants to kill everyone, we're the same, because 14 episodes of flash backs and cut aways.
Sorry this conversation just got me in the mood. I personally like Viconia, she's all messed up from Drow Society, and remember, she's a surface dweller for a reason (which you find out in her Romance) basically she wasn't cut out for Drow society, but she has a lot of it's baggage.
If you think she's bad try romancing Chaotic Neutral Anomen.
I always play as straight men in these games, but I think I need to roll an evil female PC to see if Hexxat can carry on a conversation without telling me about burning a farmer's family alive and then nailing half of Amn just to try to get a reaction.
Holy crap, Viconia is the most immature, emotionally manipulative, emotionally scarred, whiny wreck I've ever had the displeasure of talking to
You don't date much, do you?
One of Viconia's line's in particular would be the equivalent of a real girl making up a story that she worked as a prostitute for a couple years to get by before brutally murdering her pimp, just to get a reaction out of someone. I've dated crazy girls before, but not on that level. Maybe I'm just lucky.
Holy crap, Viconia is the most immature, emotionally manipulative, emotionally scarred, whiny wreck I've ever had the displeasure of talking to
You don't date much, do you?
One of Viconia's line's in particular would be the equivalent of a real girl making up a story that she worked as a prostitute for a couple years to get by before brutally murdering her pimp, just to get a reaction out of someone. I've dated crazy girls before, but not on that level. Maybe I'm just lucky.
You are just lucky. I could tell you stories, unfortunately this is a G rated site. Needless to say, that one story aside, I've known women who would make Viccy seem tame, docile, compliant and completely unmanipulative.
Heck, even including that story, I have known a few women....... Nuff said....
Holy crap, Viconia is the most immature, emotionally manipulative, emotionally scarred, whiny wreck I've ever had the displeasure of talking to, and I'm surprised I hadn't heard about it before experiencing it for myself. Every talk is her trying to manipulate the PC into... I don't even know. It's like she can't NOT mess with a male's head. It's really annoying.
You got it exactly right. Viconia is Drow and a former priestes of Lolth to booth. She's got serious issues and she is evil for a reason. Romancing her is a chore and takes a lot of dedication. Which is a rather realistic touch. Unlike Aerie however, she doesn't immediately jammer about her issues even before you take her in your party. She tells you about her wings while she is still in oger form.
Late to the party here. I've never romanced Viconia, for various reasons. Her romance bugged out for me once, and I usually don't play evil anyway. I didn't intend to this time either, but upon realizing that Hexxat doesn't bat for that team, I changed course.
First impression: And people call AERIE whiny?
Holy crap, Viconia is the most immature, emotionally manipulative, emotionally scarred, whiny wreck I've ever had the displeasure of talking to, and I'm surprised I hadn't heard about it before experiencing it for myself. Every talk is her trying to manipulate the PC into... I don't even know. It's like she can't NOT mess with a male's head. It's really annoying.
What's worse, is my own dialogue options are extremely narrow. I can either call her a bitch or be some stoic punching bag for her to work her issues out into. It's like high school all over again.
I always play as straight men in these games, but I think I need to roll an evil female PC to see if Hexxat can carry on a conversation without telling me about burning a farmer's family alive and then nailing half of Amn just to try to get a reaction.
Welcome to the life of romancing a Drow, you must take into account that Drow Women by nature are used to being in the power seat. The Drow have a Matriarical Society, meaning women rule and men are second class, so her repeated attempts to manipulate and attack your character is just her attempting to assert her dominant nature over you and make you submissive to her desires. Drow women for the most part only see men as a means to an end, that being children, they usually find pleasure in many things: Men, Women, Other pleasurable creatures. Drow Women only allow children from the most 'genetically superior' males, meaning they want males that are as powerful, skilled, and physically perfect as they can find so these traits are passed onto their offspring, they are like the poster children for Darwin's Theory of Evolution. Ultimately, a dominant Male to a Drow Woman is seem as a challenge and affront to her superiority, and while that happens very rarely in the Underdark, it does seem to peak a Drow Woman's curiousity and desires.
Aerie 'constantly whining about her wings' is just a myth. Until you romance her, she almost never really talks about them. People who've been through traumatic experiences like hers (and having her wings cut off was just the culmination of a hell of a lot of abuse), often don't talk about it for a very long time. In some case, they may even seem completely fine on the outside. But then, something might happen that will trigger and cause to relive their experiences, which could be anything; a sight, a sound, an anniversary. In Aerie's case, maybe her attraction to the bhaalspawn combined with hearing about the birdcages in Irenicus dungeon is what triggers it.
And as for Vic, who is a bitch whether you romance her or not, I like her character as well. I think others have already said how I feel; I like her as character because she is so evil. Wouldn't take her home to meet mum and dad though.
I always looked at Aerie as being that popular girl in High School or College who suddenly finds herself slightly deformed, as in a large scar or maybe missing a toe or something. Yes she's going to whine and complain about the loss of her wings........she's suddenly found herself imperfect in a world of hers that she just cannot be.
Welcome to the life of romancing a Drow, you must take into account that Drow Women by nature are used to being in the power seat. The Drow have a Matriarical Society, meaning women rule and men are second class, so her repeated attempts to manipulate and attack your character is just her attempting to assert her dominant nature over you and make you submissive to her desires. Drow women for the most part only see men as a means to an end, that being children, they usually find pleasure in many things: Men, Women, Other pleasurable creatures.
I agree with this and I've always found interesting the whole matriarchal approach to Drow society, specially if viewed as social commentary.
I sometimes wonder if I'm the only one who enjoys all three female romances, sure they melodramatic at times, but each gives something different to a particular Bhaalspawn's character arc and story, and melodrama when it happens works in context of the game, companions and story (at least I've always felt).
I could pick apart bits of each if I wanted to, or reduce it down T Viccy being bitchy, Aerie being whiny, or Jaheira being abusive and bossy (though I don't think any of those reductions are fair descriptions) but I don't because I enjoy them for what they are and what they add to game.
I've never thought Viccy is just a bitch (thought she can be bitchy, though I feel her story and romance gives you why that is), or Aerie is a whiny little girl (in the romance she does lament her loss of limbs, family, society and torture and abuse in society doesn't fully understand some of it that is all symbolized in her lost wings, but that understandable where it takes place and isn't the majority of her romance let alone character interactions, and she does come to terms with it, a major part of her romance and character arc), or that Jaheira is just abusive and bossy (she can act that way, and again there are reasons, nor is that who she is throughout the romance, as her defences come down that changes).
I like all three characters and their romance arcs for what they are, though sometimes think it's just me
As @Kilivitz says, this is eugenics or Social Darwinism not Darwinism. And I think Gygax was sympathetic to Social Darwinism . . .
And I always thought that there was redemption theme in the original game and Viconia was best example (same theme in Valygar and perhaps even Korgan -- it looked like Mazy was starting to save Korgan's soul) I think Bioware planned for Viconia to turn good in BG 3 . . .
Btw, I'm playing the Viconia romance for the first time in -- err -- forever. In vanilla she wouldn't leave the party if reputation went above 18 if the romance had switched to '2'. When did this change?
Yeah I was just about to say the same lol. Darwinism in its purist form only states RANDOM mutation can confer advantageous traits which can adapt to unforseen emerging circumstances. Spencerian Social Darwinism is wrong simply because they have a tendency to view existing social norms are superior thus only serve to justify existing hierarchies hence why racists and eugenics love it. Ironically Herbert Spencer was the most famous sociologist/philosopher of the Victorian era, hardly anyone knows his name now.
Comments
Sorry this conversation just got me in the mood. I personally like Viconia, she's all messed up from Drow Society, and remember, she's a surface dweller for a reason (which you find out in her Romance) basically she wasn't cut out for Drow society, but she has a lot of it's baggage.
If you think she's bad try romancing Chaotic Neutral Anomen.
On a side note if you ever play a hero and want a good cleric plant a helm of opposite alignment on her head.
*awesome face*
Heck, even including that story, I have known a few women....... Nuff said....
With that said... I don't mean to be rude but this is simply not how evolution works. What you're referring to has a lot more to do with eugenics.
I could pick apart bits of each if I wanted to, or reduce it down T Viccy being bitchy, Aerie being whiny, or Jaheira being abusive and bossy (though I don't think any of those reductions are fair descriptions) but I don't because I enjoy them for what they are and what they add to game.
I've never thought Viccy is just a bitch (thought she can be bitchy, though I feel her story and romance gives you why that is), or Aerie is a whiny little girl (in the romance she does lament her loss of limbs, family, society and torture and abuse in society doesn't fully understand some of it that is all symbolized in her lost wings, but that understandable where it takes place and isn't the majority of her romance let alone character interactions, and she does come to terms with it, a major part of her romance and character arc), or that Jaheira is just abusive and bossy (she can act that way, and again there are reasons, nor is that who she is throughout the romance, as her defences come down that changes).
I like all three characters and their romance arcs for what they are, though sometimes think it's just me
And I always thought that there was redemption theme in the original game and Viconia was best example (same theme in Valygar and perhaps even Korgan -- it looked like Mazy was starting to save Korgan's soul) I think Bioware planned for Viconia to turn good in BG 3 . . .
Btw, I'm playing the Viconia romance for the first time in -- err -- forever. In vanilla she wouldn't leave the party if reputation went above 18 if the romance had switched to '2'. When did this change?