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What parts of Baldur's Gate 1 are non-canon?

Besides the obvious ones like the PC's age etc.
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  • AkihikoAkihiko Member Posts: 213
    As I recall from my horrifying experience from reading the BG book when I was a kid, Xan isn't a mage, he's a fighter and he doesn't have his moonblade. Also, Khalid gets killed by slimes so the author could experience his wet dreams of banging Jaheira through Abdel.
  • MadhaxMadhax Member Posts: 1,416
    It isn't canonical for the protagonist to be relatable or interesting.
  • GoodSteveGoodSteve Member Posts: 607
    Most of the game isn't cannon. The main storyline is somewhat in that Gorion is killed by Sarevok, Abdel (the Charname) solves the mystery of the iron crisis, goes to Baldur's Gate where he confronts Sarevok (who seems to be able to cast some spells somehow...) who was trying to start a war with Amn and become a Grand Duke and ultimately slays him.

    Jaheira comes with him (she is fairly different in the books than in the game) along with Khalid, Xan, Xzar and Montaron. Of them I'm pretty sure only Jaheira survives. Imoen and Minsc only show up in the second book (for seemingly no reason) and are portrayed much different from their in-game selves aswell.
  • MadhaxMadhax Member Posts: 1,416
    @GoodSteve Gorion isn't even killed by Sarevok. He takes a crossbow bolt to the eye from some rando-mercenary that Abdel immediately kills.

    The whole book is bullshit. I might consider forgiving all the random alterations if it was at least well-written, but it very much isn't.
  • CalmarCalmar Member Posts: 688
    Madhax said:

    @GoodSteve Gorion isn't even killed by Sarevok. He takes a crossbow bolt to the eye from some rando-mercenary that Abdel immediately kills.

    I used to be an adventurer like you... :/

  • GoodSteveGoodSteve Member Posts: 607
    Madhax said:

    @GoodSteve Gorion isn't even killed by Sarevok. He takes a crossbow bolt to the eye from some rando-mercenary that Abdel immediately kills.

    The whole book is bullshit. I might consider forgiving all the random alterations if it was at least well-written, but it very much isn't.

    I see, my PTSD regarding the books muct have blocked that bit out. I remember very little besides the fact it made my eyes bleed every time I read any of it.
  • TheElfTheElf Member Posts: 798
    What are we assuming makes something canon? The book? I would think where the book and game disagree on something that always happens (i.e Gorion's death and such) the book would be the non-canon thingamajig. Idk.
  • AkihikoAkihiko Member Posts: 213
    *Sigh* I do recall the manner in which each character dies, as each time it happened I thought "THIS IS F-ING STUPID! WHY AM I READING THIS!?" Xzar and Montaron: killed by Sarevok (or one of his servants) for failing whatever their stupid mission was at Nashkel Mines. Xan: killed by spiders in Cloakwood. Khalid: killed by slimes.
  • GoodSteveGoodSteve Member Posts: 607
    TheElf said:

    What are we assuming makes something canon? The book? I would think where the book and game disagree on something that always happens (i.e Gorion's death and such) the book would be the non-canon thingamajig. Idk.

    Canon refers to what actually becomes the accepted lore for the Forgotten Realms campaign setting, so that there is a sense of unity in that universe. If the game were canon then the lore would vary greatly based on what quests the player completed, which characters died in that particular run-through, who the Bhaalspawn was (unique to each game). Forgotten Realms books are always considered to be canon for the setting, and the reason they made one based on the game was to make a canon accounting of what occurred regarding the Bhaalspawn (also I assume to be a quick payday for the authors who seemingly never played the game then made a book based off of it).

    While you can say whatever you like is the actual canon of your Forgotten Realms setting (believe me, after the gutting it got in 4e I sure do change things) the accepted accounting of events regarding Abdel Adrian (the Bhaalspawn) are those from the novels, not the game.
  • TheElfTheElf Member Posts: 798
    Well I guess that helps explain why people hate the book so much...
  • AkihikoAkihiko Member Posts: 213
    Yup! Canon is usually a helpful and accepted rule, but when the books are such a wild deviation from the content they're based off of, it's easy to see why no one wants to accepts it.
  • GoodSteveGoodSteve Member Posts: 607
    edited November 2013
    Akihiko said:

    Yup! Canon is usually a helpful and accepted rule, but when the books are such a wild deviation from the content they're based off of, it's easy to see why no one wants to accepts it.

    Indeed.

    But, in the grand scheme of things the canon about the Bhaalspawn makes little difference on the realms as a whole. Bhaal was dead and thanks to Abdel not ascending he remains so and there are no new deities added to the setting as a result until 1479 DR. Apparently in the new adventure "Murder in Baldur's Gate" Abdel fights his half brother Viekang to the death. The winner of which is yet to be determined in the canon, and this results in Bhaal being resurrected as the new god of murder.

    Unless you play a game in the areas mentioned in the book during that time period (so, Baldur's Gate, Athkatla etc. around 1368 DR) there isn't much of an impact thankfully. Since I play pre-spellplague in all of my campaigns (that is to say there was no stupid spellplague) the fact that Abdel becomes a Grand Duke of the city doesn't really matter. Apparently he is one of many grand dukes that are yet to be determined because the fluff for 4e is greatly lacking.
  • SharShar Member Posts: 158
    GoodSteve said:

    Akihiko said:

    Yup! Canon is usually a helpful and accepted rule, but when the books are such a wild deviation from the content they're based off of, it's easy to see why no one wants to accepts it.

    Indeed.

    But, in the grand scheme of things the canon about the Bhaalspawn makes little difference on the realms as a whole. Bhaal was dead and thanks to Abdel not ascending he remains so and there are no new deities added to the setting as a result until 1479 DR. Apparently in the new adventure "Murder in Baldur's Gate" Abdel fights his half brother Viekang to the death. The winner of which is yet to be determined in the canon, and this results in Bhaal being resurrected as the new god of murder.

    Unless you play a game in the areas mentioned in the book during that time period (so, Baldur's Gate, Athkatla etc. around 1368 DR) there isn't much of an impact thankfully. Since I play pre-spellplague in all of my campaigns (that is to say there was no stupid spellplague) the fact that Abdel becomes a Grand Duke of the city doesn't really matter. Apparently he is one of many grand dukes that are yet to be determined because the fluff for 4e is greatly lacking.
    I dont play D&D but i like reading about it. This thing with spellplague and in 4th ed is absolutely atrocious if i was an active player boy would i be pissed. Btw what happened to Elminster after weave convulsion?
  • GoodSteveGoodSteve Member Posts: 607
    edited November 2013
    Elminster basically lost much of his power from being a chosen of Mystra (since Mystra died causing the spellplague... even though many gods of magic have died and no spellplague... funny that) and now whenever he casts a spell other than a minor cantrip or a minor illusion spell he is driven insane. His friend, and also former chosen of mystra, Storm Silverhand can renew his sanity by giving up some of her essence.

    Basically he and Storm take it upon themselves to save the Realms and pose as repairmen (not making this up) to infiltrate keeps and whatnot. They're known as Elgorn and Stornara Rhauligan, "repairers of ever-crumbling stone, plaster, tapestries, and wood" when they infiltrate Suzail where they spy on the War Wizards of Cormyr.

    They are basically finding powerful magical items and artifacts that they feed to the Simbul to try and restore her sanity. In so doing he resurrected a descendant of his known as Amarune Whiteweave. When Manshoon finally stripped away all of Elminster's contingency spells (without him or Storm knowing somehow) Elminster's body was destroyed. They put his soul or essence into this Amarune Whiteweave with an old spell they discovered that used to belong to Azuth (the god of wizards).

    So, Elminster is basically just a voice in Amarunes head now and he's taken it upon himself to do his best to train her in the ways of wizardry (even though his grasp on wizardy was all but shattered by Mystras death... makes sense) so she can protect Cormyr from Manshoon and other evil things! NEATO!
  • AkihikoAkihiko Member Posts: 213
    Soooooo... canon has gone all kinds of loony, eh?
  • SharShar Member Posts: 158
    Wow they have pretty much cockblocked Elminster... This is dire news indeed.
  • GoodSteveGoodSteve Member Posts: 607
    Akihiko said:

    Soooooo... canon has gone all kinds of loony, eh?

    Yeah, 4e seemingly destroyed everything that people liked about the Forgotten Realms. At least they did so with what I liked about them.
  • enneractenneract Member Posts: 187
    Wow. The shark has been jumped.
  • GoodSteveGoodSteve Member Posts: 607
    Yeah, I would have preferred it if Elminster just died from the spellplague. I mean I would have been upset either way (not because I particularly like Elminster, just because the whole spellplague thing was upsetting to begin with) but it at least would've made room for new heroes to rise and be recognized... instead they turn him into a voice in some girls head so that they can try and transfer Elminsters fan base over to reading about some other character... just wow.
  • KidCarnivalKidCarnival Member Posts: 3,747
    Who is this Abdel you keep bringing up...?
  • GoodSteveGoodSteve Member Posts: 607
    edited November 2013
    Like it or not he's the canon Bhaal Spawn.

    He's actually one of the pregenerated characters you can import in BG1 and 2. The Fighter's name is Abdel.
  • ajwzajwz Member Posts: 4,122
    All the best bits :/
  • All I wanted to know was if Candlekeep had a bakery :( xDD
  • I'll try and pinpoint this discussion down to a few questions, which may make it easier rather than discussing the books.

    1) Do Elminster's appearances line up with his timeline?
    2) Why are Minsc and Dynaheir going on their dejemma at quite a late age (from appearance)?
    3) Is Shandalar's ship between Baldur's Gate and Ulgoth's Beard or actually within the city?
    4) How many guards & Flaming Fist does Baldur's Gate have? I've read they have 300 Flaming Fist but also read somewhere that it's more towards thousands.
    5) Is Boo really a miniature giant space hamster? (OH GOD, IT HAS BEGUN :P)
  • pekirtpekirt Member Posts: 111
    SethDavis said:

    I've heard that Minsc isn't canonically bald and in fact has a mane of fiery red hair and a patchy orange beard.

    Was Minsc based on your PC? ;)

  • TheGraveDiggerTheGraveDigger Member Posts: 336

    Screw this, the damn BOOK isn't canon. My playthroughs are cannon. Your playthroughs are canon.
    Canon in the eye of the beholder... minus the whole turn into a statue thing

    Hear! Hear! Burn the book!
    GoodSteve said:

    Yeah, I would have preferred it if Elminster just died from the spellplague.

    He's the turd that wont flush.

  • XerxesVXerxesV Member Posts: 187



    4) How many guards & Flaming Fist does Baldur's Gate have? I've read they have 300 Flaming Fist but also read somewhere that it's more towards thousands.

    I dont know for sure, but one thread a few months ago had a screencap of about 100 Flaming Fist mercenaries in Beregost alone, because the player refused to sleep in the inn.

    I guess their recruitment levels can vary depending on how severe criminal activity is, with vagrants being the #1 priority.
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