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What parts of Baldur's Gate 1 are non-canon?

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  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,164
    XerxesV said:



    4) How many guards & Flaming Fist does Baldur's Gate have? I've read they have 300 Flaming Fist but also read somewhere that it's more towards thousands.

    I dont know for sure, but one thread a few months ago had a screencap of about 100 Flaming Fist mercenaries in Beregost alone, because the player refused to sleep in the inn.

    I guess their recruitment levels can vary depending on how severe criminal activity is, with vagrants being the #1 priority.
    I'm glad they have their priorities straight!
  • chbrookschbrooks Member Posts: 86

    Screw this, the damn BOOK isn't canon. My playthroughs are cannon. Your playthroughs are canon.
    Canon in the eye of the beholder... minus the whole turn into a statue thing

    Well, no...technically canon is decided by the gents at Wizards of the Coast. Individual campaigns can deviate from canon as they see fit.

    Heck, by all accounts, Ed Greenwood, the creator of the Realms, has a campaign that is remarkably different from the published setting. Doesn't make his version canon, though.

    Technically, the novels are canon. But they're canon in the same way that the Clone Saga is canon for Spider-Man comics - nobody mentions them and we all generally pretend they didn't happen. Even Murder in Baldur's Gate avoids referencing them directly save for the existence of Abdel Adrian.
  • XerxesV said:



    4) How many guards & Flaming Fist does Baldur's Gate have? I've read they have 300 Flaming Fist but also read somewhere that it's more towards thousands.

    I dont know for sure, but one thread a few months ago had a screencap of about 100 Flaming Fist mercenaries in Beregost alone, because the player refused to sleep in the inn.

    I guess their recruitment levels can vary depending on how severe criminal activity is, with vagrants being the #1 priority.
    Don't they also have a larger base in the south somewhere? If they can teleport then they may recruit from the south :D
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,018
    Madhax said:

    @GoodSteve Gorion isn't even killed by Sarevok. He takes a crossbow bolt to the eye from some rando-mercenary that Abdel immediately kills.

    Are you sure it wasn't a bolt in the knee?

  • Wasn't it from Eagus and Kamon? :P
  • GoodSteveGoodSteve Member Posts: 607

    I'll try and pinpoint this discussion down to a few questions, which may make it easier rather than discussing the books.

    1) Do Elminster's appearances line up with his timeline?
    2) Why are Minsc and Dynaheir going on their dejemma at quite a late age (from appearance)?
    3) Is Shandalar's ship between Baldur's Gate and Ulgoth's Beard or actually within the city?
    4) How many guards & Flaming Fist does Baldur's Gate have? I've read they have 300 Flaming Fist but also read somewhere that it's more towards thousands.
    5) Is Boo really a miniature giant space hamster? (OH GOD, IT HAS BEGUN :P)

    1) to tell the truth I don't really recall if Elminster was in the books or not. It is possible that he was and it is also possible that this timeline would sync up. When you're the Sage of Shadowdale it's nothing to travel between one end of the realms to the other in a matter of moments.
    2) Dynaheir isn't even mentioned in the books and I don't believe it mentions anything about Minsc being on a dajemma. He is basically a naked lunatic that Abdel is imprisoned with in Irenicus' dungeon. In the books there's dozens of prisoners there for some reason, Minsc just happens to be one of those that aided Abdel, Imoen, and Jaheira. Once they are free he goes with them to the Copper Coronet where he decides to become a serving wench (not joking).
    3) Shandalar is not in the novels so he is not a canon character.
    4) Not entirely sure on the numbers. The population of Baldur's Gate around that time was 42,000 so I would assume there would have been more than 300 flaming fist mercenaries.
    5) Probably not. He is with Minsc in the second novel but much like the redheaded (long red hair and a patchy beard as he is described) madman he isn't fleshed out at all.
  • ZalsonZalson Member Posts: 103
    GoodSteve said:


    5) Probably not. He is with Minsc in the second novel but much like the redheaded (long red hair and a patchy beard as he is described) madman he isn't fleshed out at all.

    It's like Athans was told that Minsc was a beloved character but provided 0 background. "There's this really buff imbecile character that you must include." "We can't have him in the book! He's too similar to Abdel!" "Well, then write him out really early."

  • marcerormarceror Member Posts: 577
    GoodSteve said:

    I'll try and pinpoint this discussion down to a few questions, which may make it easier rather than discussing the books.

    1) Do Elminster's appearances line up with his timeline?
    2) Why are Minsc and Dynaheir going on their dejemma at quite a late age (from appearance)?
    3) Is Shandalar's ship between Baldur's Gate and Ulgoth's Beard or actually within the city?
    4) How many guards & Flaming Fist does Baldur's Gate have? I've read they have 300 Flaming Fist but also read somewhere that it's more towards thousands.
    5) Is Boo really a miniature giant space hamster? (OH GOD, IT HAS BEGUN :P)

    1) to tell the truth I don't really recall if Elminster was in the books or not. It is possible that he was and it is also possible that this timeline would sync up. When you're the Sage of Shadowdale it's nothing to travel between one end of the realms to the other in a matter of moments.
    2) Dynaheir isn't even mentioned in the books and I don't believe it mentions anything about Minsc being on a dajemma. He is basically a naked lunatic that Abdel is imprisoned with in Irenicus' dungeon. In the books there's dozens of prisoners there for some reason, Minsc just happens to be one of those that aided Abdel, Imoen, and Jaheira. Once they are free he goes with them to the Copper Coronet where he decides to become a serving wench (not joking).
    3) Shandalar is not in the novels so he is not a canon character.
    4) Not entirely sure on the numbers. The population of Baldur's Gate around that time was 42,000 so I would assume there would have been more than 300 flaming fist mercenaries.
    5) Probably not. He is with Minsc in the second novel but much like the redheaded (long red hair and a patchy beard as he is described) madman he isn't fleshed out at all.
    Seriously, what sort of drugs was the author on? Why write a book about a game, and go so far off point? Did this guy just get an outline of what happens in the game, some character names, and have absolutely no inkling as to the personality of the game? It's rather infuriating just hearing these silly and stupid changes to the story. Has the author ever been interviewed about his "thought process". Would love to hear a bit of that.
  • EudaemoniumEudaemonium Member Posts: 3,199
    marceror said:

    GoodSteve said:

    I'll try and pinpoint this discussion down to a few questions, which may make it easier rather than discussing the books.

    1) Do Elminster's appearances line up with his timeline?
    2) Why are Minsc and Dynaheir going on their dejemma at quite a late age (from appearance)?
    3) Is Shandalar's ship between Baldur's Gate and Ulgoth's Beard or actually within the city?
    4) How many guards & Flaming Fist does Baldur's Gate have? I've read they have 300 Flaming Fist but also read somewhere that it's more towards thousands.
    5) Is Boo really a miniature giant space hamster? (OH GOD, IT HAS BEGUN :P)

    1) to tell the truth I don't really recall if Elminster was in the books or not. It is possible that he was and it is also possible that this timeline would sync up. When you're the Sage of Shadowdale it's nothing to travel between one end of the realms to the other in a matter of moments.
    2) Dynaheir isn't even mentioned in the books and I don't believe it mentions anything about Minsc being on a dajemma. He is basically a naked lunatic that Abdel is imprisoned with in Irenicus' dungeon. In the books there's dozens of prisoners there for some reason, Minsc just happens to be one of those that aided Abdel, Imoen, and Jaheira. Once they are free he goes with them to the Copper Coronet where he decides to become a serving wench (not joking).
    3) Shandalar is not in the novels so he is not a canon character.
    4) Not entirely sure on the numbers. The population of Baldur's Gate around that time was 42,000 so I would assume there would have been more than 300 flaming fist mercenaries.
    5) Probably not. He is with Minsc in the second novel but much like the redheaded (long red hair and a patchy beard as he is described) madman he isn't fleshed out at all.
    Seriously, what sort of drugs was the author on? Why write a book about a game, and go so far off point? Did this guy just get an outline of what happens in the game, some character names, and have absolutely no inkling as to the personality of the game? It's rather infuriating just hearing these silly and stupid changes to the story. Has the author ever been interviewed about his "thought process". Would love to hear a bit of that.
    He was probably supplied with just that. I think that's how most game tie-in novels work and i doubt it would have been much different in this case. Its likely he wasn't even given the final game plot, and certainly not the game script (who would have time for that?). Its likely Athans was supplied with the core plot direction, probably about mid-way through development or even earlier, and the names and rough descriptions of some major characters (personality-wise, maybe not even physically).
  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,164
    When i was reading it i assumed a seven year old played the game and just wrote down what happened in his playthrough.
  • It's like those video games that come out a month before the films they're portraying and have 10% of the main storyline.
  • Big_MurrayBig_Murray Member Posts: 69
    None of what happens in the BG games is canonical in the novelised works of Faerun. Video-games have to exist in their own canon.

    The only things you could say were canonical for sure are the solid, unchanging events. That Sarevok tried to start a war against Amn, that the Bhaalspawn were persecuted ... nothing about the characters can ever be considered to have actually happened.
  • SCARY_WIZARDSCARY_WIZARD Member Posts: 1,438
    Didn't Wizards of the Coast apologize for that hot mess of a novel and tell us it wasn't really canon, anymore?
  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,164

    Didn't Wizards of the Coast apologize for that hot mess of a novel and tell us it wasn't really canon, anymore?

    if not they frickin' should!!!
  • DurenasDurenas Member Posts: 508

    Besides the obvious ones like the PC's age etc.

    The entire book.
  • MadhaxMadhax Member Posts: 1,416

    Didn't Wizards of the Coast apologize for that hot mess of a novel and tell us it wasn't really canon, anymore?

    Sounds like a wishful dream, but if BG had as big a fan-base as, say, Mass Effect, that would totally happen.
  • LathlaerLathlaer Member Posts: 475
    Also, on a semi-related note, it should be noted that anything Ed Greenwood says about Forgotten Realms is considered canon unless stated otherwise by WotC.
  • SCARY_WIZARDSCARY_WIZARD Member Posts: 1,438
    Madhax said:

    Didn't Wizards of the Coast apologize for that hot mess of a novel and tell us it wasn't really canon, anymore?

    Sounds like a wishful dream, but if BG had as big a fan-base as, say, Mass Effect, that would totally happen.
    "I MUST BE FORGOTTEN, WIZARDS! If the world is to live free of the tyranny of Adrian, they must never know what was done between my pages."
  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,164
    RETCON THE BOOK
  • BaxyrattyBaxyratty Member Posts: 190
    things that are "cannon" are the things covered in the Baldur's gate pnp supplemental that came out sometime recently i think
  • BladeDancerBladeDancer Member Posts: 477

    RETCON THE BOOK

    I'm doing it as we speak

  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,164

    RETCON THE BOOK

    I'm doing it as we speak

    WORK FASTER lol
  • I probably should have retitled it as 'non-lore canon' XD
  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,164
    I think the only person with the authority to retcon it (with all respect to Ed Greenwood) is Volo.
    Maybe I'll have Dorn threaten him into it during Throne of Bhaal.
  • BladeDancerBladeDancer Member Posts: 477

    RETCON THE BOOK

    I'm doing it as we speak

    WORK FASTER lol
    I'm working as fast as I can lol

    Want to see how much I've done so far?

    https://www.fanfiction.net/u/4738936/SilentGuy2011
  • MoczoMoczo Member Posts: 236

    When i was reading it i assumed a seven year old played the game and just wrote down what happened in his playthrough.

    That WOULD explain what happened to Xan.

    Didn't Wizards of the Coast apologize for that hot mess of a novel and tell us it wasn't really canon, anymore?

    I did hear that, too! Though I heard it on TV Tropes, so I'm not sure how reliable it is.

    ... God I hope it's reliable.

  • NonnahswriterNonnahswriter Member Posts: 2,520

    RETCON THE BOOK

    I'm doing it as we speak

    WORK FASTER lol
    I'm working as fast as I can lol

    Want to see how much I've done so far?

    https://www.fanfiction.net/u/4738936/SilentGuy2011
    Dang. That's kind of amazing, how much work you've put into it. My novelization attempt's been collecting dust inside my computer for the past several months... Doesn't help that it's pretty slow, and I've got my own worlds to create! D:

    Just keep going, and take whatever time you need!
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