Except that the friendships don't develop like the romances. It's just the banters you always get, not just if you specifically try to befriend someone. Fleshed out friendship paths, that's what I mean.
Is there a practical difference, though? I mean, let's say my character covers for Edwin when that other Red Wizard comes looking for him, or frees Nalia's home from the invaders (thereby securing their respective places in the party) - wouldn't you say those loyal characters are now the PC's friends?
Yes. That is content you always get. In total, Edwin, Nalia and the other non-romance NPCs have less content and dialogue than the NPCs with a romance option. There is no acknowledgement of charname being "Nalia's friend". Everyone is "person who helped Nalia"; and one way or another, you are just that to every NPC with a quest, reasons for helping unexplored. In a romance path, there is a seperation between "person who travels with NPC" and "NPC's lover/love interest".
Yes. That is content you always get. In total, Edwin, Nalia and the other non-romance NPCs have less content and dialogue than the NPCs with a romance option. There is no acknowledgement of charname being "Nalia's friend". Everyone is "person who helped Nalia"; and one way or another, you are just that to every NPC with a quest, reasons for helping unexplored. In a romance path, there is a seperation between "person who travels with NPC" and "NPC's lover/love interest".
And... what's wrong with that, exactly? I mean, the game should distinguish between companions and love interests, that's the whole point of having a romance storyline in the first place. It sounds like you want an additional layer of personal quests for non-romanced characters, but that's exactly what they already have: a mission that tells you more about the character, and at the end of it they're loyal to you (in the sense that they won't threaten to leave you if you don't help them). What would "friendship quests" add beyond a repetition of the same dynamic?
I voted what I wanted most, but my second choice is Male (with romance). We need more options for straight female characters... or perhaps gay guys. Or both. I can't help but vote for a new lady though.
Don't care, but I don't want another romance. It's immersion breaking if half the party hits on charname at some point. I know, I can turn them down, doesn't change that it's not realistic that many people show interest, yet no-one wants to be friends. So my vote is - don't care, no romance, FRIENDSHIP PATH.
I wouldn't go so far as to say it's immersion breaking. I mean, who wouldn't want experience a semi-divine penis/vag.
But yea, I don't really need another romance. As I've said before, I'd like a neutral tank, and as far as I'm concerned a tank should be a man. I'm sexist like that.
Don't care, but I don't want another romance. It's immersion breaking if half the party hits on charname at some point. I know, I can turn them down, doesn't change that it's not realistic that many people show interest, yet no-one wants to be friends. So my vote is - don't care, no romance, FRIENDSHIP PATH.
I'm actually fine with friend NPCs too. However... what about some romances where CHARNAME has to hit on the NPC more than the other way around? Where you might even have to select the "Talk" button and target them and show some initiative by starting a dialogue that otherwise never triggers? It's not immersion-breaking to play a character who always has romance on their mind because that's CHARNAME's choice.
@mylegbig: If my low charisma, rude, not-quite-sane Priest of Talos gets that much interest from NPCs, it is immersion breaking. That guy has the flair of a semi-divine hobo and a permanent insect plague in his beard. I actually can't see any of the romancable NPCs overlook that. He's the medieval counterpart to a homeless guy who stops traffic with a "the end is nigh" cardboard sign.
@shawne: I never said I want a new dynamic. I just want a new tone. I do not want yet another cheesy love story. Of course, a friendship path would mechanically work the same; with dialogues. That's what the friendship mods do. I'd like my Blackguard and Korgan having a little bet who can kill someone faster, for example. The one doing more damage with the next hit wins and the loser has to pay the ale, leading to the options to be a "good" loser, not acknowledge losing, bragging with the win. A less bloodthirsty charname could shut Korgan down the moment he suggests the bet and not start a friendship (same as shutting down a romance); a murdering madman could go along with it and get extra banters, leading to a friendship; a middlepath charname could accept the bet, but at some later point say it's getting too much (and break the friendship path).
As it is, I get exactly the same banters with an NPC I only take along for a quest - with no intention to keep them or headcanon them as a "friend". Friendship paths would add depth to non-romance NPCs as the relationship with charname would develop over time. The romances reveal sides of the NPCs that are not obvious to someone who doesn't romance them (i.e. Aerie getting over her wing loss, Jaheira not being a bossy bitch all the time). The NPCs that have no romance don't get the same depth. I want my charnames to meet a mentor, a friendly rival, a fireforged best friend and a drinking buddy, not just another lover.
I voted what I wanted most, but my second choice is Male (with romance). We need more options for straight female characters... or perhaps gay guys. Or both. I can't help but vote for a new lady though.
I don't know about the whole gay thing. We already have one male gay romance, and his whole "It will be even bloodier than you can imagine" line sounds scary as hell in that context. You're the son of the goddam god of murder. Even if your PC is gay (and mine would, of course, never never would be since I'm that much of a man), how could he let some mangy half-orc make him a prison bitch? The child of Bhaal should be the one pitching, not catching.
I voted what I wanted most, but my second choice is Male (with romance). We need more options for straight female characters... or perhaps gay guys. Or both. I can't help but vote for a new lady though.
I don't know about the whole gay thing. We already have one male gay romance, and his whole "It will be even bloodier than you can imagine" line sounds scary as hell in that context. You're the son of the goddam god of murder. Even if your PC is gay (and mine would, of course, never never would be since I'm that much of a man), how could he let some mangy half-orc make him a prison bitch? The child of Bhaal should be the one pitching, not catching.
Actually machismo doesn't appeal to me either. I'm mostly into ladies, and I prefer my men to be more like ladies on the rare occasion that I find a man attractive. An intelligent specialist wizard would be more my speed, whether I'm playing a male or female character.
I voted what I wanted most, but my second choice is Male (with romance). We need more options for straight female characters... or perhaps gay guys. Or both. I can't help but vote for a new lady though.
I don't know about the whole gay thing. We already have one male gay romance, and his whole "It will be even bloodier than you can imagine" line sounds scary as hell in that context. You're the son of the goddam god of murder. Even if your PC is gay (and mine would, of course, never never would be since I'm that much of a man), how could he let some mangy half-orc make him a prison bitch? The child of Bhaal should be the one pitching, not catching.
You know nothing about gay relationships, Jon Snow.
I voted what I wanted most, but my second choice is Male (with romance). We need more options for straight female characters... or perhaps gay guys. Or both. I can't help but vote for a new lady though.
I don't know about the whole gay thing. We already have one male gay romance, and his whole "It will be even bloodier than you can imagine" line sounds scary as hell in that context. You're the son of the goddam god of murder. Even if your PC is gay (and mine would, of course, never never would be since I'm that much of a man), how could he let some mangy half-orc make him a prison bitch? The child of Bhaal should be the one pitching, not catching.
I'll never understand the logic behind a man loving another man somehow makes him "less of a man." Nor will I ever understand why being "like a woman" or "feminine" is always considered "less than" or "sub par" to being a man.
I personally think women are wonderful and worthwhile role models. So if someone says I’m acting like a girl all I have to say to them is: “Thanks!”
@mylegbig: If my low charisma, rude, not-quite-sane Priest of Talos gets that much interest from NPCs, it is immersion breaking. That guy has the flair of a semi-divine hobo and a permanent insect plague in his beard. I actually can't see any of the romancable NPCs overlook that. He's the medieval counterpart to a homeless guy who stops traffic with a "the end is nigh" cardboard sign.
If your charisma is that low it's hard to justify why 5 other NPCs would follow you around and take your orders in the first place.
Anyways, the game obviously doesn't take stats into account outside of combat. Having people want to jump your divine bones is a lot less immersion breaking than having 3 intelligence and still being able to talk like you have 18. The game just assumes you have decent intelligence and charisma.
Because they want to stay on the good side of a powerful bhaalspawn. It's a different thing to work with someone to benefit from their potential and to romance them. A person I work with just needs to be competent, not attractive. And just bearable enough to get the task done, not likable.
Honestly, I'd like a female romanceable paladin, a male romanceable wizard or a male romanceable rogue (preferably bard)
Paladins have only one representative in each game (I don't count Dorn) and in both games there hasn't been a single female Paladin (unless you count Mazzy). Plus a romanceable Paladin could add some flavor to Keldorn's quest, and Keldorn can actually grow into the role of the party's Elder Statesman/Wise Old Man Who Gives Good Advice by guiding the PC and the NPC in how to handle their romance in light of their duties (kinda wish there was more of that with Anomen's romance)
Male Rogues/Bards have always been portrayed as the most dashing, brave and roguishly charming characters in fantasy. This is ideal for a love interest. An Errol Flynn type would make a great character and a fun romance option.
And a male romanceable wizard/sorcerer because there are only two and one is a bearded gnome (literally) and the other mumbles hilarious one-liners to himself.
Male Rogues/Bards have always been portrayed as the most dashing, brave and roguishly charming characters in fantasy. This is ideal for a love interest. An Errol Flynn type would make a great character and a fun romance option.
Swashbuckler would be my vote for that. It's written all over the kit info.
@mylegbig: If my low charisma, rude, not-quite-sane Priest of Talos gets that much interest from NPCs, it is immersion breaking. That guy has the flair of a semi-divine hobo and a permanent insect plague in his beard. I actually can't see any of the romancable NPCs overlook that. He's the medieval counterpart to a homeless guy who stops traffic with a "the end is nigh" cardboard sign.
You know women don't usually a give a damn about your looks if you are an evil rude mtfckr wielding divine power AND having Divine blood, the Power of such a man alone would make women go crazy.
And this works IRL as well, Power makes women swoon, even a fake one i.e. macho party boys.
@mylegbig: If my low charisma, rude, not-quite-sane Priest of Talos gets that much interest from NPCs, it is immersion breaking. That guy has the flair of a semi-divine hobo and a permanent insect plague in his beard. I actually can't see any of the romancable NPCs overlook that. He's the medieval counterpart to a homeless guy who stops traffic with a "the end is nigh" cardboard sign.
You know women don't usually a give a damn about your looks if you are an evil rude mtfckr wielding divine power AND having Divine blood, the Power of such a man alone would make women go crazy.
And this works IRL as well, Power makes women swoon, even a fake one i.e. macho party boys.
Personal hygiene may still be an issue. And frankly, I fail to see the "power" of a macho party boy.
@mylegbig: If my low charisma, rude, not-quite-sane Priest of Talos gets that much interest from NPCs, it is immersion breaking. That guy has the flair of a semi-divine hobo and a permanent insect plague in his beard. I actually can't see any of the romancable NPCs overlook that. He's the medieval counterpart to a homeless guy who stops traffic with a "the end is nigh" cardboard sign.
You know women don't usually a give a damn about your looks if you are an evil rude mtfckr wielding divine power AND having Divine blood, the Power of such a man alone would make women go crazy.
And this works IRL as well, Power makes women swoon, even a fake one i.e. macho party boys.
Personal hygiene may still be an issue. And frankly, I fail to see the "power" of a macho party boy.
The standards for personal hygiene have been changing throughout the history of humans, it's up to you of course to include a given standard to your RP'ing of a given charname, so I agree.
The power of carefree party boy is very similar to the seductive powers of a fantasy bard, it's just less bs and more to the point.
Well, even in medieval times, there were standards of some sort. There's a difference between a nobleman or commoner who just washes his clothes once in a while, and someone who doesn't.
I wouldn't compare party boys to bards either. Party boys are stereotypically not the brightest guys, rather party than study and hold no power of any kind. A bard would more be like a musician or other artist who has influence on fans. To become a musician, he either has the natural talent (and discipline to make it his job) or he studied to gain the skills (i.e. playing an instrument better than a hobby musician).
I'd also argue that "women usually" (if I buy into the theory that "most" of any given group behave in the same way) go for attractive party boys, if at all, not guys who simply party a lot, but are not physically appealing. If actual power - like political or financial power - comes into play, this may go out of the window, but to get that, the guy can't party all day; instead he'd work on his public image or financial success.
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But yea, I don't really need another romance. As I've said before, I'd like a neutral tank, and as far as I'm concerned a tank should be a man. I'm sexist like that.
@shawne: I never said I want a new dynamic. I just want a new tone. I do not want yet another cheesy love story. Of course, a friendship path would mechanically work the same; with dialogues. That's what the friendship mods do.
I'd like my Blackguard and Korgan having a little bet who can kill someone faster, for example. The one doing more damage with the next hit wins and the loser has to pay the ale, leading to the options to be a "good" loser, not acknowledge losing, bragging with the win. A less bloodthirsty charname could shut Korgan down the moment he suggests the bet and not start a friendship (same as shutting down a romance); a murdering madman could go along with it and get extra banters, leading to a friendship; a middlepath charname could accept the bet, but at some later point say it's getting too much (and break the friendship path).
As it is, I get exactly the same banters with an NPC I only take along for a quest - with no intention to keep them or headcanon them as a "friend". Friendship paths would add depth to non-romance NPCs as the relationship with charname would develop over time. The romances reveal sides of the NPCs that are not obvious to someone who doesn't romance them (i.e. Aerie getting over her wing loss, Jaheira not being a bossy bitch all the time). The NPCs that have no romance don't get the same depth. I want my charnames to meet a mentor, a friendly rival, a fireforged best friend and a drinking buddy, not just another lover.
gimme Yeslicka!!
Preferably a fighter. Human. About 5'9", 17 str, 14 cha, 12 int. Short, brown hair. Swarthy, good looks.
I personally think women are wonderful and worthwhile role models. So if someone says I’m acting like a girl all I have to say to them is: “Thanks!”
Anyways, the game obviously doesn't take stats into account outside of combat. Having people want to jump your divine bones is a lot less immersion breaking than having 3 intelligence and still being able to talk like you have 18. The game just assumes you have decent intelligence and charisma.
Paladins have only one representative in each game (I don't count Dorn) and in both games there hasn't been a single female Paladin (unless you count Mazzy). Plus a romanceable Paladin could add some flavor to Keldorn's quest, and Keldorn can actually grow into the role of the party's Elder Statesman/Wise Old Man Who Gives Good Advice by guiding the PC and the NPC in how to handle their romance in light of their duties (kinda wish there was more of that with Anomen's romance)
Male Rogues/Bards have always been portrayed as the most dashing, brave and roguishly charming characters in fantasy. This is ideal for a love interest. An Errol Flynn type would make a great character and a fun romance option.
And a male romanceable wizard/sorcerer because there are only two and one is a bearded gnome (literally) and the other mumbles hilarious one-liners to himself.
You know women don't usually a give a damn about your looks if you are an evil rude mtfckr wielding divine power AND having Divine blood, the Power of such a man alone would make women go crazy.
And this works IRL as well, Power makes women swoon, even a fake one i.e. macho party boys.
The standards for personal hygiene have been changing throughout the history of humans, it's up to you of course to include a given standard to your RP'ing of a given charname, so I agree.
The power of carefree party boy is very similar to the seductive powers of a fantasy bard, it's just less bs and more to the point.
I wouldn't compare party boys to bards either. Party boys are stereotypically not the brightest guys, rather party than study and hold no power of any kind. A bard would more be like a musician or other artist who has influence on fans. To become a musician, he either has the natural talent (and discipline to make it his job) or he studied to gain the skills (i.e. playing an instrument better than a hobby musician).
I'd also argue that "women usually" (if I buy into the theory that "most" of any given group behave in the same way) go for attractive party boys, if at all, not guys who simply party a lot, but are not physically appealing. If actual power - like political or financial power - comes into play, this may go out of the window, but to get that, the guy can't party all day; instead he'd work on his public image or financial success.