*SPOILERS* what did you choose for Dorn?

Ryofu

So at the end of his quest line in SoA you have a choice, give up his blackguard abilities and become a fallen blackguard and power up the 2h sword abit more or serve Azothet

which choice did you choose?

which do you reckon is more "worth" it? the sword kinda sucked


Btw, is this the end of Dorn's quests and events for SoA and the story continues only in ToB?

Eudaemonium

I gave up his abilities. Freedom seemed more preferable to servitude, and my LE Charname wants Dorn to obey her alone, not some whimsical abyssal power with a habit of screwing up the best laid plans with his last minute alterations.

You can also triple-cross Azothet and stay with Ur-Gothoz, btw.

Ryofu

does your choice affect Dorn's storyline in ToB in any way?

Eudaemonium

No idea, since I'm still in SoA XD (right at the end, but I dislike ToB so I will probably do Watcher's Keep first… =/).

elminster

I had a romance going on between him and my evil wild mage. No way was I going to let him be subservient to anyone other than charname

Doxy

I kinda picked Dorn for his Blackguard abilities, so i went with Azothet.

AcridSyphilis

I gave away his powers, but regretted it once I found the blackguard sword in Watcher's Keep. Not a game breaker, but definitely a little disappointing for me.

Caelith

Aside from roleplaying, giving up his powers seems like kind of a waste when all you get +5 damage to Devils or Demons in exchange.

Eudaemonium

AcridSyphilis said:

I gave away his powers, but regretted it once I found the blackguard sword in Watcher's Keep. Not a game breaker, but definitely a little disappointing for me.

When i found this out I… surreptitiously made him unfallen, but kept the fallen title and the lack of abilities… (so he still has no blackguard powers, but he can equip that sword...)

Drayen

Does making him become a fallen blackguard change his alignment? I've been wondering if there was a way to make him good/neutral since the info on him when you launch the game says he might redempt or go deeper in evil

Eudaemonium

No. He stays Neutral Evil. He's just Evil on his own terms rather than someone else's now.

kamuizin

Eudaemonium said:

No. He stays Neutral Evil. He's just Evil on his own terms rather than someone else's now.

Can he advance in proficiences as a fighter now that he only focus in his fighting powers?

Ps: So is it atm? No deal with Demogorgon to get an decent patron (the prince of demons) or at least the lesser demon lord from Ush Natha?

Mortianna

Caelith said:

Aside from roleplaying, giving up his powers seems like kind of a waste when all you get +5 damage to Devils or Demons in exchange.

It doesn't look like it matters whether Ur-Gothoz, Azothet, or both are bound within the sword, as they all will do additional damage against Demons and Devils since there isn't a separate IDS code for Devils (sadly, they're all lumped together as "demonic" in the game files). I think it was written in the description just to add some narrative complexity to the consequences of Dorn's quest. Besides, Ur-Gothoz and Azothet are both Demons, so I'm not sure why one would make the sword cause additional damage to Demons and the other to Devils. Maybe the devs were thinking more in terms of Ur-Gothoz's capricious nature and Azothet's more focused disposition.

I did the triple cross and had Dorn remain in Ur-Gothoz's service. I thought it seemed the most Blackguard-like of all the options. I'm still in Ch 5, so I have a ways to go before ToB.

LiamEsler

@Mortianna Azothet is a devil.

Mortianna

@LiamEsler Who likes to appear in Marilith form, apparently. ~.^

LiamEsler

@Mortianna Yeah, I didn't really get that either.

Amardarial

Well just hit ToB so guess I'll see what happens to my Fallen Dorn, see how his story progress' from here...

shawne

I'm honestly not sure what I'll do when I get to that point: if Azothet is a devil, that means she can at least be trusted to keep her word (since baatezu are Lawful Evil) so Dorn might be better off with her; staying with Ur-Gothoz nets you the Visage, which looks pretty damn impressive; killing both would win Dorn his freedom at the cost of his blackguard powers (which, granted, aren't mandatory - he'll still do plenty of damage - but Aura of Despair will be particularly devastating at high levels...)

Ryofu

is it good? lol i have not even used any of dorn's powers just loaded him up with armor and weapons and sent him in

shawne

Ryofu: At level 20 it gives enemies -4 to hit, damage and Armor - quite a significant debuff.

Ryofu

actually are there any devils in the game? i don't recall any, there are a ton of demons i know but devils seem quite rare

Cuv

There are only a couple of devil animations: Pit Fiend and Imp. Neither seemed appropriate for Azothet. If we had the PST animations we could have used an Abashai.

kamuizin

Cuv said:

There are only a couple of devil animations: Pit Fiend and Imp. Neither seemed appropriate for Azothet. If we had the PST animations we could have used an Abashai.

But you have and already used it in fact, the Glaberazu in the Temple storage, no?

where we find Celestial Fury

Isn't it now using the animation of Planescape Torment: Glaberazu? Which was already used in ToB, where we had a lot of more different animations.

Anyway from my personal opinion i believe Beamdog (or ATARI) should had ordered the production of new animations, after all you're (or ATARI is) reviving the game and charging for it, but this is my personal opinion only.

Mortianna

@Cuv There are Erinyes and Cornugons in ToB, too. However, the Cornugon sprite was used for Ur-Gothoz

The green-skinned/haired, wingless Erinyes in ToB wasn't exactly the best rendition of the PnP Erinyes:



@LiamEsler The journal entry for the "binding Ur-Gothoz path" refers to Azothet as a Demon (marilith), as well as the description for the Abyssal Blade, so I was confused when you said she's a Devil.

Eudaemonium

Doesn't the game also refer to ur-gothoz as a glabrezu? I was a bit thrown when he turned out to be a cornugon.

Mortianna

@Eudaemonium Since Xachrimos' sprite is a glabrezu, they probably didn't want to use the same one for Ur-Gothoz.

Azothet's sprite is a marilith, she is referred to as a demon several times in the quest, and the sword's extra damage is applied to demons and devils alike in the game mechanics. She might as well be a demon. Story-wise, it's also very plausible that a greater demon would hate and try to defeat/usurp another greater demon through underhanded means.

Eudaemonium

@Mortianna: That makes sense, but they could always have made Xachrimos something else instead.

If the game treats demons and devils identically mechanically, does sealing both Ur-Gothoz and Azothet give a collective +10 damage to demons or is one of them just made redundant?

Mortianna

@Eudaemonium It looks like they do separate damage vs. devils and demons after all, as they're class-specific. The EFF files show that the sword bound with Ur-Gothoz does +5 damage to the imp class and the one containing Azothet's essence does +5 damage to the "tanari" (sic) class. The sword containing both of them does 5 additional slashing damage to both demons and devils.

Imps, Erinyes, and Cornugons are assigned the imp class, so the extra damage should apply to them. Pit Fiends, however, are classed as tanar'ri, which is unfortunate since they're the most powerful of the devils in the game.

One last "thing": The sword with Ur-Gothoz's essence gives a damage bonus against devils and the one with Azothet does additional damage toward demons. Shouldn't it be the other way around, since Dorn's patron and demon buddies would be more vulnerable to the effects of the sword?

Eudaemonium

I assume that they do bonus damage against their own hated enemies, thus the demon empowers strikes against devils and vice-versa.

So basically triple-crossing Azothet seems to be the best route to take in terms of sheer statistical gains, since you gain a sword that does bonus damage against demons (the majority of outsider opponents), the Visage helm/mask, and Dorn keeps all his powers to boot.

kamuizin

Still i'm a bit upset to see that no covenant with Demogorgon or with the lesser demon lord in Ush Natha is done ! I believe Dorn's patron isn't strongh enough to keep an lvl 30+ blackguard as a minion.

In special, Beamdog lost an excelent opportunity of make an true evil consequence in watcher's keep by making the player allied with Demogorgon, and sealing the contract with the change of patronage of Dorn.

Demogorgon patron would be perfect for a Main Char blackguard also.

If let him loose on the prime is too great to be left to happen (and still it's a vannila option), make the party defeat Demogorgon and seeing the power of the main char (or Dorn) he would propose the covenant to still partake from the thousand deaths that a children of bhaal from the oracle legend would surelly make.

shawne

kamuizin said:

Still i'm a bit upset to see that no covenant with Demogorgon or with the lesser demon lord in Ush Natha is done ! I believe Dorn's patron isn't strongh enough to keep an lvl 30+ blackguard as a minion.

In special, Beamdog lost an excelent opportunity of make an true evil consequence in watcher's keep by making the player allied with Demogorgon, and sealing the contract with the change of patronage of Dorn.

Sounds like pointless repetition to me - if Dorn completes his mission with a patron, he's not up for grabs (because he chose his patron this time). If he chose freedom, he's not going to go looking for another new master.