*Spoilers* Should players...
Edwin_Odesseiron
Member Posts: 226
... Stop trying to resurrect Clara via constant whinging to the team via these forums? I'm seeing this everywhere on these threads and I'd rather see meaningful discussions, not ones about a quasi-useless NPC.
I feel the devs did a fantastic job with the Hexxat storyline and it needs no altering or changing just because a few people are feeling butthurt.
So have your say! Would you like the whining to stop? Yea, or nay?
I feel the devs did a fantastic job with the Hexxat storyline and it needs no altering or changing just because a few people are feeling butthurt.
So have your say! Would you like the whining to stop? Yea, or nay?
- *Spoilers* Should players...94 votes
- Yes, make it stop!! Could we cease the incessant noise? 'Tis such a pain behind the eyes!56.38%
- No, I enjoy the pointless screams of the damned. Their tears sustain me.43.62%
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Comments
@Mathsorcerer I see your opinion is one thing.. and your vote another. You have successfully confused me (A task I thought impossible.)
the devs gave fans a place to make there opinions known and so they have a right to do so. particularly for a game like this if people aren't happy with the content it should be made known. It is after all additional content for a classic title as opposed to an entirely original product
If I don't think a bit of content is up to standard i'm going to say so. better for everyone devs included that I do it here rather that simply moan about it else were
Saving her wouldn't make any more sense than saving Khalid, or Yoshimo, or any one else that dies to further a plot development.
If she had just been an NPC that doesn't join or have a pretty portrait but spawns at relevant points in the tomb like she's just tagging along, this probably wouldn't have even become an issue. But I think the way they handled it was clever introduction to the real Hexxat
again though if they want it I won't argue and would even buy it if it were DLC. I have no use for Hexxat anyway.
Seriously, that's a lot of characterisation for a one-off NPC. Could you give as much detail about Saemon Havarians past?
Claras uselesness is also not Clara being bad, but Hexxat bad mouthing her. What does she say about Clara? All of the above, plus a mediocre thief with no true talent or ability. Well, she also says that she was more easily able to control those with a similar background to her. Hexxats stats are better, but once she equips an item that is described as supressing vampiric abilities, she has the exact stats like Clara.
Hexxat is very sure of herself, not just in this. So take anything she says about Clara with a grain of salt. It's in her best interest to downplay Clara and tell those other adventurers how much better she is.
The story, idea and feel around Hexxat is all cool, so are the class-bound quests--But as a character in-game with the mechanics of a pure thief with 3 "special" spells(that could all be good in baldurs gate, in bg2 all these skills are terrible). She is so god damn boring, and honestly a very weak NPC.
Thank god they improved some of the old ranged weapons in the game, or I would just leave her in a corner until a conversation, trap or locked door came along
The current bugs with getting her ressurected properly is not helping her case along either...
After having played through SoA and parts of ToB (until Hexxat bugged out of my game) and romancing her (until it bugged out), I still know more about Claras past from the 40m I took her along, then I know about Hexxat.
Seriously, that's a lot of characterisation for a one-off NPC. Could you give as much detail about Saemon Havarians past?
Claras uselesness is also not Clara being bad, but Hexxat bad mouthing her. What does she say about Clara? All of the above, plus a mediocre thief with no true talent or ability. Well, she also says that she was more easily able to control those with a similar background to her. Hexxats stats are better, but once she equips an item that is described as supressing vampiric abilities, she has the exact stats like Clara.
Hexxat is very sure of herself, not just in this. So take anything she says about Clara with a grain of salt. It's in her best interest to downplay Clara and tell those other adventurers how much better she is.
Firstly, people should not be able to voice their opinions again and again on the same topic. Beating a dead horse, and all that. So yes, this is a perfectly valid question.
As for this post.. I don't know where to begin unraveling this nonsense. A lot of characterisation? It's a cliche commoner backstory that takes all of ten minutes to cook up. Failed actress turned thief. Yawn. In another posted, I commented on many, MANY characters in the game who would make for far better NPC's that have more interesting stories. Lavok is a great example. He has an interesting, long-lived past and would be sure to have some tales. Plus there's the conflict potential with Valygar. But if we are talking about thieves, Calahan would be a prime example of a better choice. You meet this smuggler in BG1 in Ulgoth's Beard, and then again in BG2 in Brynnlaw. He has a distinct way of speaking and seems like a cool customer. Make Safana a joinable NPC. Or just make a completely new NPC who is perhaps a Shadow Thief and have a great story associated with it. Maybe Embarl, the fleeing thief. He seems like a genuinely good guy. Or maybe Shank could join you? Hah! Perhaps a Cleric/Thief cultist of the Unseeing Eye. They would have some very interesting stories as to why they worshipped such a dark god. Or resurrect Montaron. You mentioned Saemon Havarian. That guy is one cool cat. He may not have much of a storyline told to us, but it is not needed. From his personality it is clear the guy has seen a few things, and would make a great NPC (when he didn't run away). I'd vote a thousand times for him (or any of the ones I just mentioned) before even considering voting for Clara as an afterthought. Any of these suggestions is better than Clara.
Honestly, if Clara wasn't a joinable NPC and just someone that said "meet me at X location", this wouldn't even be an issue. As it stands, it is only an issue to some people because she briefly joins your party. And she is not more fleshed out than the aforementioned "meet me at X location" type-character. Generic storyline. Generic character. So many would deserve a place as an NPC before her. SO many.
Clara's entire purpose was to die. She had quite an emotive final scene with Hexxat, and that should be enough. It was one of those "damn it!" moments. But the game is filled with those, and if we brought back every character who died because players didn't like it and had a cry, well... You'd have a very crappy final product. So that's it. That's Clara's greatest contribution to the game and I don't see why people can't just accept this. You have people like Dave up there who refuses to touch the Hexxat story in some kind of passive-aggressive protest to Clara dying. Lol. No one's crying for you buddy, you're the one missing out on some cool adventures and whatever else.
So saying this once is fine. Having to sift through discussions where this is constantly being brought up is irritating. People should do their best to move on.
On topic. People can ask, and if the devs have time, they have a lot of options to work with:
They can let clara live and walk away for a small pittance of xp (and wouldn't it be trollish if you find her dead in Bohi's lair anyway).
Make her a dlc NPC (seriously beamdog, stop giving us everything for free).
Or kinda fix it so that there is still some purplish mist that only those with a one track mind can walk through between Hexxat and the rest of the party when Hexxat starts feeding, taking away the argument that the PC was just standing around letting it happen.
They can also say, "no, we have no interest/time to work on this" and I'd be fine with it. People are allowed to ask, but they also have to accept no as an answer.
As for your final sentence, that is the crux of my argument. People should just accept no as an answer and move on.
Can you imagine if there was such a forum back when BG2 originally came out? People would be complaining about all sorts of things. Firstly, Khalid and Dynaheir's deaths. And if they got changed, we would not have the game we do today. Which makes me almost shudder to think of, since this is one of the best RPG experiences of all time.
Also....an elf protecting nature, a drow having forsaken Lolth and having fled to the surface, a cynical mage from Thay. All briliant subversion of common fantasy tropes. Don't forget the century old mage on a mad quest for ultimate power for his revenge. That's like your opinion, man. Embarl, a cleric of the Unseeing Eye, that are all people you know even less about than Clara. If you think that's enough to say they'd be better than someone we already had in our party as a NPC, then fine. Probably true. I don't think anyone would care, if people weren't able to control Clara for some time. That makes her one of the team, however briefly and includes her in the group of people the player has to care for in combat.
What's your problem with generic characters, btw? On paper Edwin is one of the most generic characters in all of BG2, yet you seem to like him just fine. I mean it, if you'd list his past and characterisation similarly to Claras, he'd be nothing special. It's the actual writing that's important. Hexxats first quest diminishes the quality of the whole Hexxat storyline for me. It's just that problematic. And I'm not talking about just Claras dead, not even primarily. One, why do you visit those threads?
Two, why do you make those threads yourself?
Clara is boring. There is nothing new and fresh she can bring to the table. Nothing. Anything that can be done with her, another NPC has done before. Hexxat was the new and fresh thing and Clara was simply a means to an end for this new and exciting freshness.
Is it really that annoying to you to have people discuss the new NPC and a highly contentious point of interest? It's not even a vocal minority, because there are a bunch of people on both sides.
The game was released only a few weeks ago. Soon this matter will have passed. Maybe we'll get more content for BG2 that rounds out some problematic quests out of these discussions. We can agree that this would be a good thing, yes?
And yes, the sooner this matter passes, the better. I've recently discovered some mods, so I shall look into them. Perhaps you and the others should do the same with Clara and be done with it.
I remember many, many people being upset that only three of the NPCs from BG were available in BG2.
Myself, Minsc, Jaheria, Imoen, Viconia. And then Sarevok as a sixth if you want to count that.
That's how I feel about Clara, and it seems like a mighty effort to convince anyone that it's more than Gravitational Groin Syndrome.
"But Tsyrith, you mad foole, how can you attest to liking something that's pretty much equivalent to a doll?"
Glad you asked, f**kface. I'd contend it's the barest glimpses we get of her that heightens an anticipation, much akin to the sexual*, except as it relates to the social. It's the anxiety of that first long talk with a potential good friend, where you define and outline your relationship moving forward.
"But she's a prostitute, you don't like prostitutes do you?"
As little reason as Hexxat had to lie, I don't really feel like the synopsis of Clara's life provided by her murderer has any real bearing on her as a person. Let's substitute Haer'dalis in as the victim, "Oh, he was just a random berk who came to this city hoping to be an actor, but resorted to thievery to justify being a satellite to the woman he loved."
So yeah, I'm not interested in debating the semantics of game development, or the behavior of others who might or might not share my opinion (to a degree). I haven't even really targeted anyone in response, I've just been lurking mostly, but felt compelled to respond after same-old-same-old came out and started swinging it around like a tassel. I'd agree that most meaningful discussion has been exhausted, but not that this is a meaningless topic.
As a qualifier and disclaimer; I've completed Hexxat's story with an evil party, and I don't feel compelled to argue for or against any of her other content; including her gender, race, sexual preference or right to exist in mine or anyone else's game.
* I'm going to risk an "Emperors Clothes" situation here and say that I respect anyone with the intelligence to notice that similarities do not imply the exchange wholesale of all associated baggage. There are sexual features in even an innocuous relationship between two friends. Do Not Freak Out, you aren't Fox News.
** Yeah, I couldn't think of two letters that would lessen the expletive nature of the address, perhaps it helps that I was arguing against a nebulous thought that permeates every one of these threads, and that anyone who identifies with that argument and subsequently the epithet can feel just as upset as "us butthurt people". Ad-hominem is cool as long as no-one takes offense, right?
TL;DR: Wah-hahhh! Wahahhhhhhh! Wuh-wuh-... *sneeze* *startled* *looks around then wanders off*