Shield Mod - Mulling over ideas
AstroBryGuy
Member Posts: 3,437
Thanks to the newly externalized features of BG[2]:EE, I'm thinking about creating a Shield Mod. I'm interested in any comments or feedback on the ideas for the mod.
The mod would have two components:
1. Revised Sword n' Shield style - In Combat & Tactics, Weapon & Shield style is about being able to do various shield combat maneuvers (e.g., shield-punch) without losing your shield bonus to AC, but I'm not sure if "shield attacks" would even be possible in the Infinity Engine. However, I did note that C&T also details a shield proficiency, which gives a shield bearer extra AC bonuses when using a shield.
Here's how those bonuses work:
* Note, PnP limits the number of attackers that a shield can be used against in each round. So, shields of increasing size don't provide greater AC (for non-proficient users), they provide AC bonus for more attacks. AFAIK, BG[2]:EE doesn't do this (which would be why they implemented different bonuses for each shield type).
So, like the current SnS style, C&T's shield proficiency provides an AC bonus (for most shield types), but not just vs. missles. Its a general bonus of +2 for medium and large shields, +1 for small shields, and no bonus for bucklers.
My revision to SnS style will be to replace the AC bonuses vs. missles with flat AC bonuses. 1 pip in SnS will provide a +1 AC bonus when using a shield, 2 pips will provide a +2 bonus. There doesn't appear to be a way to limit the AC bonus by shield type, however.
Instead, classes will be limited in the number of pips they can take:
Warriors (except Kensai), including multi-class: 2 pips
Clerics, including multi-class: 1 pip
Buckler-only classes (Thieves, Druids, Bards): 0 pips
Mages, Sorcerers: 0 pips
This limits classes that normally wouldn't benefit from shield proficiency (i.e. those who can only use a buckler) from taking SnS style. While it doesn't stop a fighter from getting a +2 AC bonus with a buckler, presumably a shield-using fighter would likely choose a bigger, more-protective shield.
2. Revised Shield AC bonuses - It always struck me as odd that a buckler grants no protecting from piercing weapons, especially when the PnP description from C&T states "[a buckler's] small size makes it easy to carry, but it is of limited usefulness against anything except fencing weapons." Fencing weapons are piercing, of course.
Also, the idea that a full body shield is only more useful than a small shield vs. missle weapons just seems wrong.
Here's the revised table of shield AC bonuses.
I'll give bucklers an AC bonus vs. piercing, making them equivalent to vanilla small shields. So, I'll shift the AC bonuses for small and medium shields as well.
For large shields, the AC bonus will change to a flat +2 AC bonus, but -1 "to hit" penalty due to the encumbrance of the shield (idea borrowed from 3E). In addition, large shields will gain an item ability of "Full Cover" which allows the defender to sacrifice all his/her attacks for one round in exchange for a +4 bonus to AC. This is useful for quaffing a healing potion during combat.
Thanks for the feedback!
The mod would have two components:
1. Revised Sword n' Shield style - In Combat & Tactics, Weapon & Shield style is about being able to do various shield combat maneuvers (e.g., shield-punch) without losing your shield bonus to AC, but I'm not sure if "shield attacks" would even be possible in the Infinity Engine. However, I did note that C&T also details a shield proficiency, which gives a shield bearer extra AC bonuses when using a shield.
Here's how those bonuses work:
| Shield Type | Non-Prof. AC Bonus | Proficient AC Bonus |
| Buckler | +1* | +1 |
| Small Shield | +1* | +2 |
| Medium Shield | +1* | +3 |
| Body (Large) Shield | +1/+2 vs. missles | +3/+4 vs. missles |
So, like the current SnS style, C&T's shield proficiency provides an AC bonus (for most shield types), but not just vs. missles. Its a general bonus of +2 for medium and large shields, +1 for small shields, and no bonus for bucklers.
My revision to SnS style will be to replace the AC bonuses vs. missles with flat AC bonuses. 1 pip in SnS will provide a +1 AC bonus when using a shield, 2 pips will provide a +2 bonus. There doesn't appear to be a way to limit the AC bonus by shield type, however.
Instead, classes will be limited in the number of pips they can take:
Warriors (except Kensai), including multi-class: 2 pips
Clerics, including multi-class: 1 pip
Buckler-only classes (Thieves, Druids, Bards): 0 pips
Mages, Sorcerers: 0 pips
This limits classes that normally wouldn't benefit from shield proficiency (i.e. those who can only use a buckler) from taking SnS style. While it doesn't stop a fighter from getting a +2 AC bonus with a buckler, presumably a shield-using fighter would likely choose a bigger, more-protective shield.
2. Revised Shield AC bonuses - It always struck me as odd that a buckler grants no protecting from piercing weapons, especially when the PnP description from C&T states "[a buckler's] small size makes it easy to carry, but it is of limited usefulness against anything except fencing weapons." Fencing weapons are piercing, of course.
Also, the idea that a full body shield is only more useful than a small shield vs. missle weapons just seems wrong.
Here's the revised table of shield AC bonuses.
| Shield Type | AC Bonus |
| Buckler | +1/+0 vs. missles |
| Small Shield | +1 |
| Medium Shield | +1/+2 vs. missles |
| Large Shield | +2 |
For large shields, the AC bonus will change to a flat +2 AC bonus, but -1 "to hit" penalty due to the encumbrance of the shield (idea borrowed from 3E). In addition, large shields will gain an item ability of "Full Cover" which allows the defender to sacrifice all his/her attacks for one round in exchange for a +4 bonus to AC. This is useful for quaffing a healing potion during combat.
Thanks for the feedback!
5
Comments
@Shin
From a purely technical standpoint, how would one 'tweak' the Sword&Shield attributes?
Say I wanted to make S&S have 4 pips instead of 2, or have it bestow +1 base AC per pip (instead of just the vs. missiles, like its current incarnation), how would I do that with DLTCEP? Is there any .2da table that controls all this, or is it done via some kind of hidden script?
OT: A shield mod would definitely be a welcome addition to the game. Someone should make it
EDIT: Ok, so I've added SWORDANDSHIELD-3 via the 'add row' button in DLTCEP, but it doesn't register in the game (I still can't put more than 2 pips in S&S). Might Weidu be able to solve this somehow? I'm really unfamiliar with it, but I know people work magic with some of its commands.
On a semi-related note, all I see in that table are entries about thac0 and AC. Is there any way to add something like +5% physical damage resistance per S&S pip? Or is the table locked to only what's already in it?
I can confirm that adding a SWORDANDSHIELD-3 row to STYLBONU.2DA and then adding a 3rd pip of SNS style via EE Keeper does work. I gave my cavalier a +3 AC bonus with a shield. :-)
As for the columns in the STYLBONU.2DA file, I have no idea if new columns can be added for other effects like damage resistance.
As far as other effects are concerned, DLTCEP has an 'insert column' button, and it's entirely possible to add new columns to the table. The question, now, is what the exact names of the other effects are? For example, 'AC_BASE' is, intuitively, for base AC. What would have to be entered for damage resistance?
Is there a list somewhere of all the effects one can put in the table(s)?
This is based on my experience with editing XPBONUS.2DA that regulates exp gains for lockpicking, trap disarming and spell scribing. In the file disarm_trap is the first row, but values inserted there are awarded for lockpicking, and the other way around.
Damage resistance
Elemental resistances
Magic resistance
Save throw bonuses
All of these sort of make sense as blocking or deflecting attacks should reduce the damage your character takes, even if it's blocking a fireball which doesn't take AC into account.
The available modifiers are: left damage, right damage, left THAC0, right THAC0, AC base, AC vs missiles mod, speed factor and critical rate. The only really applicable affects for S&S style are AC base and AC vs missles.
Adding in offensive capabilities to reflect how shields were used to bash, trap, and create openings as opposed to merely blocking would be great. One option, as @Shin states, would be to add items spells to all the shields in the game to enable shield punches and shield rushes; this would also allow you to implement different damage values based on the size of the shield. Another option would be to add a "Shield Specialist" kit for Fighter and/or Paladin that gets access to special shield abilities and higher levels of S&S style (even up to "grandmastery") that add offensive benefits like THAC0 and crit rate (representing using the shield to create openings and inhibit your opponent's guard). Part of the disadvantage of the kit could be restricting access to other weapon styles and reduced proficiency with two-handed weapons to encourage sticking with the theme.
The stuff @Corvino suggests would be great for preserving the usefulness of shields in the late game, but can't be added to S&S style. This could be jury-rigged by creating a few new magic shields with the desired properties, as one of the big problems with (most of the) shields currently is how lackluster their bonuses are apart from AC. The bonuses current shields get, e.g. 10% elemental resistance, +1 saving throws, +5% magical resistance, are easily outclassed by weapons placed in the off hand. You could even sprinkle in a couple of shields with offensive bonuses to mix things up a bit.
Even without that the idea of someone wearing full plate mail with two enchanted medium shields is...interesting, as far as characters go. Enkidu's Full Plate, Sentinel, and Shield of the Order = base AC -12, not counting dexterity or other items. Powerful opponents will still hit you more often than not but most average foes probably won't.