@Heindrich1988: Lessee... Maybe because some people's lives suck and they are searching for a way to vent? Maybe some people have become greatly delusional in this world filled with corruption and general human idiocies? Maybe some people got problems they can't talk about and thus have to find a way they can get off some steam? There are a LOT of reasons why people act like idiots on the internet. Mostly because they can.
The internet is no place for anyone easily offended. It can have a strange effect on the mind, it can be a mask or a confessional box. If you could read people's thoughts you'd hate everyone.
"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth." -Oscar Wilde
First of all, you said it yourself, @queenofmasterdam : "some people have no boundaries". Thare are practically no typical social restrictions on the internet - so people acts way differently than in normal circumstances. It is a similar to a being drunk - while being heavily drunk, those social restricions are also non-existent, so if person feels like being rude - they'll do it. What usually keeps rude behaviours at bay is gone, regardless if we simply write stupid things on the forum, like myself, or just drunk our arses like some people I don't recommend to know.
Second, the rest is what is left after stripping people of said restrictions. What is left is our experience, things that happened to us in life, things that affected us in life. Like where and when we are born, what are our natural traits, how family and (")friends(") affected us, how religon or nationality or education did... Generally, everything that happened in our life gave our alingment certain shape. So, if someone turned out naturaly polite and gentle - then good for him/her, because social restrictions aren't needed in his/her cause. If someone has not... well, we have this topic now.
Please note that doesn't reffer only to how polite someone is on the internet.
So, there are two factors: 1. Lack of typical social restrictions. 2. Our experiences in life.
Sorry for my English, by the way. I don't know if I expressed my thoughts in a clear and correct way. Hope at least you have my general idea.
Which one: farming, hunting, weaving, or stone-knapping?
This cracked me up. Totally something Aerie would say with a straight face following a Haer-Dalis response to one of those "I'm a fine lookin' strumpet, ain't I"
@Heindrich1988 I tend to be like that, but a little bit more avengeful and maybe more uncaring with people. And my moral is like a swird without a hilt, you can harm others and it can harm you; in the easy way, I am some sort of Total Mad Chaotic.
I think you're right with your first sentence, and I think it counts for a lot of things we're seeing lately. I had someone start talking c*ap to me on reddit today, over bloody sweet potatoes of all things!
I think a lot of people are feeling powerless, inadequate or emasculated in their every day lives, so they go on to reclaim any sense of "power" by taking it out on others.
I don't think its just the internet either. Since I've moved to America, I have observed some of the politics and one thing that gets me (since the economy went bad)... a lot of people started getting angry at teachers pensions (and unions), a lot of the rhetoric was "why should they get it when I don't?".
Why, when we are feeling low or being treated badly, do we not try and improve things for all of us but instead try and bring others down with us? Why do we (with all of our science and technological advancements) subscribe to the whole crabs in the bucket thing.
It makes me depressed, really. If its over women in video games, trying to sensibly discuss human rights, or even just expressing my dislike of self serve checkouts. We should be able to express our opinions, not without getting criticized (or disagreed with) but without people setting out to just make you hurt/hate. I'm tired of extreme negativity and rudeness, basically.
Allow me to educate and elucidate... Amsterdam has very relaxed laws concerning drug use and prostitution. In fact, the Netherlands does not suffer from the related problems other countries seem to have with drugs and the oldest trade on the planet.
...
Then you get tourists...
They go to the capital, Amsterdam, and smoke themselves to oblivion while riding as many bikes as possible.
I think the Queen of Amsterdam is the lady who has done the most miles on any given night... A search was not particularly helpful.
Ahhh Amsterdam... good times!!!
What happens in Amsterdam stays in Amsterdam, because in the morning you won't remember a sh*t.. ;-)
There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.-Socrates. Rude is really a matter of perspective some people believe it is insulting to be corrected when it should be thought of as a kindness to free one from ignorance.
Because Socrates was right about everything, clearly. And there hasn't been over 2 millennia of footnotes since his representation by an overly adoring student.
There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.-Socrates. Rude is really a matter of perspective some people believe it is insulting to be corrected when it should be thought of as a kindness to free one from ignorance.
I disagree with this statement. I shall respond with in two ways to illustrate my point. (So I hope you will not actually take offence from the second response).
1) Civilised/Nice
Whilst I agree with with Socrates' love of knowledge and learning, I disagree with not only his statement, if understood literally, and also your assertion based on Socrates' statement.
There are clearly other forms of evil in the world beyond ignorance. I can be hateful and carry out despicable acts of evil with full knowledge that I am committing evil.
Even if you are correct about something, you can educate somebody in a reasoned and civilised manner, or you can be unnecessarily rude, hurtful and cruel.
2) Rude/Douche/Troll
Wow you sure sound like a right asshole! "What I say is always correct and I am doing you a kindness in delivering much needed enlightenment to your dull simian mind! I quote Socrates, I am so smart! Disgreeing with me is ignorance, the only true evil in the world!"
I think this is a perfect example of what Socrates meant. You yourself wouldn't use 2) because you know it is counter productive and it would be more likely to trigger a combative response. I may be incorrect, but the ignorance in attempting to make someone hostile is self evident whether it works or not. As far as evil beyond ignorance yes there is, but it is ignorance that I believe enables it. I think a well informed public will put an end to any such evils after all it is the basis of democracy.
or even just expressing my dislike of self serve checkouts.
Why don't you like self-serve checkouts?
I will tell you only if you don't yell at me! lol
I like to use my own bag (I know you can use it on there but more trouble), if you have a coupon you need help anyways and picking the right kind of sweet potato (or misidentified yam) from several options that mostly look the same (but are differently priced) is a pain. I spend way too much time on computers as it is (even when playing with my son). I'd rather talk to a person and have them have a job. Apparently, that makes me stupid :P
I think this is a perfect example of what Socrates meant. You yourself wouldn't use 2) because you know it is counter productive and it would be more likely to trigger a combative response. I may be incorrect, but the ignorance in attempting to make someone hostile is self evident whether it works or not. As far as evil beyond ignorance yes there is, but it is ignorance that I believe enables it. I think a well informed public will put an end to any such evils after all it is the basis of democracy.
@Chaotic_Good Wow lots of deep debates on the forum tonight! lol
Yes I would not use 2) in most situations. Partly because as you say, it is usually counter-productive, but also because I do not have any desire to be mean-spirited and hurtful to somebody else with whom I have no prior conflict, and thus no good reason to attack.
The point of OP's thread, and my first comment on it, is that many others do not share my principle of 'nice until provoked otherwise'.
Whether an informed public would behave to greater moral standards is highly debatable. It is of course impossible to measure quantitatively, but I would suggest that moral standards have arguably declined as knowledge has become more widely available.
The study of economics and natural history reveals some pretty depressing facts about the world and how it works. Greater awareness of inequality and an absence of religious moral guidance (I am not religious, but I cannot deny that most religions prescribe fairly commendable moral teachings) arguably results in an increasingly competitive and selfish society.
The merits and ills of democracy is a whole different kettle of fish, so I'll refrain from another massive rant.
Internet Person: Broken Window Fallacy! Think Deeper moron! I'm so smrt, why you so ingant
Normal Person: I think you are mistaken about the issue of jobs. It is a matter of the seen vs the unseen. Sure, a cashier may have a job that you can see, and think "oh look, there is a job". However you are not considering the jobs created when you use a self checkout. A cashier is one job. The technology used for self checkout involves 1. the engineer who designs the machine 2. the factory workers who produce the machine 3. the truckers who transport the machine 4. the store worker who installs the machine and many more. These effects are not so easily seen, but after thinking it out you see that the issue is no where near as simple. This is often called the "Broken Window Fallacy" in which someone says "if i go to the butcher and break his window (or checkout register) then the butcher (supermarket manager) will have to hire a window repairman (cashier) to fix it. Therefore breaking windows must create jobs". This doesn't take into account the other ways the butcher would spend his money (he may now have to fire an employee, he may not expand his business, he may not take on new apprentices, etc.)
If you want to see a more elaborate and insightful discussion of the same topic, but using a far simpler object, check out this amazing short video that may change the way you view everyday economic interaction: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYO3tOqDISE
Well, I think that we have the technology, it should definitely be available to use. I know some people will avoid these kinds of interactions at all costs! Plus, they definitely help cut down on short lines if you've only got a handful of things. It just seems to me that these days (at least in the US) our lives are so segregated even though we live with so many people, little interactions are important too. I wonder if part of the reason we're so insular is to do with worse attitudes in dealing with each other, courtesy and what not. Maybe we don't relate well, since its easy to label people as "idiots" and "others". I don't know though, I grew up in a pretty secluded village and where I live now people swear, cut off and tail gate seemingly all the time. Maybe its always been like that? lol
With the jobs you listed though, a lot of those are temporary/contract in nature. There's an argument to be made about redundant unnecessary jobs I'm sure but right now its very hard to get work even at the bottom of the chain. Countries like the US and the UK will demonize those on benefits even if there's no jobs for them, until we have a better system for dealing with that (no idea there) I wouldn't want the places I shop at to make me especially reliant on computer based services.
You are a hamster, your life consists of eating seeds, running in a plastic wheel and debating philosophy and medicine on the internet. As long as you don't meet any cats, you seem to be doing just fine.
Comments
@Kitteh_on_a_cloud ... Do you live in Wales?
"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth." -Oscar Wilde
First of all, you said it yourself, @queenofmasterdam : "some people have no boundaries". Thare are practically no typical social restrictions on the internet - so people acts way differently than in normal circumstances. It is a similar to a being drunk - while being heavily drunk, those social restricions are also non-existent, so if person feels like being rude - they'll do it. What usually keeps rude behaviours at bay is gone, regardless if we simply write stupid things on the forum, like myself, or just drunk our arses like some people I don't recommend to know.
Second, the rest is what is left after stripping people of said restrictions. What is left is our experience, things that happened to us in life, things that affected us in life. Like where and when we are born, what are our natural traits, how family and (")friends(") affected us, how religon or nationality or education did... Generally, everything that happened in our life gave our alingment certain shape. So, if someone turned out naturaly polite and gentle - then good for him/her, because social restrictions aren't needed in his/her cause. If someone has not... well, we have this topic now.
Please note that doesn't reffer only to how polite someone is on the internet.
So, there are two factors:
1. Lack of typical social restrictions.
2. Our experiences in life.
Sorry for my English, by the way. I don't know if I expressed my thoughts in a clear and correct way. Hope at least you have my general idea.
Your not... The WIFE !
Because people in general suck.
I am rationally rude. I am rude to people who I think deserve it. Sure that can seem a bit subjective, but I am very rarely and very selectively rude.
Basically my moral is to behave like a mirror. Treat others as how you'd like to be treated. I apply that principle in reverse too.
And my moral is like a swird without a hilt, you can harm others and it can harm you; in the easy way, I am some sort of Total Mad Chaotic.
I think you're right with your first sentence, and I think it counts for a lot of things we're seeing lately. I had someone start talking c*ap to me on reddit today, over bloody sweet potatoes of all things!
I think a lot of people are feeling powerless, inadequate or emasculated in their every day lives, so they go on to reclaim any sense of "power" by taking it out on others.
I don't think its just the internet either. Since I've moved to America, I have observed some of the politics and one thing that gets me (since the economy went bad)... a lot of people started getting angry at teachers pensions (and unions), a lot of the rhetoric was "why should they get it when I don't?".
Why, when we are feeling low or being treated badly, do we not try and improve things for all of us but instead try and bring others down with us? Why do we (with all of our science and technological advancements) subscribe to the whole crabs in the bucket thing.
It makes me depressed, really. If its over women in video games, trying to sensibly discuss human rights, or even just expressing my dislike of self serve checkouts. We should be able to express our opinions, not without getting criticized (or disagreed with) but without people setting out to just make you hurt/hate. I'm tired of extreme negativity and rudeness, basically.
What happens in Amsterdam stays in Amsterdam, because in the morning you won't remember a sh*t.. ;-)
I disagree with this statement. I shall respond with in two ways to illustrate my point. (So I hope you will not actually take offence from the second response).
1) Civilised/Nice
Whilst I agree with with Socrates' love of knowledge and learning, I disagree with not only his statement, if understood literally, and also your assertion based on Socrates' statement.
There are clearly other forms of evil in the world beyond ignorance. I can be hateful and carry out despicable acts of evil with full knowledge that I am committing evil.
Even if you are correct about something, you can educate somebody in a reasoned and civilised manner, or you can be unnecessarily rude, hurtful and cruel.
2) Rude/Douche/Troll
Wow you sure sound like a right asshole! "What I say is always correct and I am doing you a kindness in delivering much needed enlightenment to your dull simian mind! I quote Socrates, I am so smart! Disgreeing with me is ignorance, the only true evil in the world!"
I like to use my own bag (I know you can use it on there but more trouble), if you have a coupon you need help anyways and picking the right kind of sweet potato (or misidentified yam) from several options that mostly look the same (but are differently priced) is a pain. I spend way too much time on computers as it is (even when playing with my son). I'd rather talk to a person and have them have a job. Apparently, that makes me stupid :P
Wow lots of deep debates on the forum tonight! lol
Yes I would not use 2) in most situations. Partly because as you say, it is usually counter-productive, but also because I do not have any desire to be mean-spirited and hurtful to somebody else with whom I have no prior conflict, and thus no good reason to attack.
The point of OP's thread, and my first comment on it, is that many others do not share my principle of 'nice until provoked otherwise'.
Whether an informed public would behave to greater moral standards is highly debatable. It is of course impossible to measure quantitatively, but I would suggest that moral standards have arguably declined as knowledge has become more widely available.
The study of economics and natural history reveals some pretty depressing facts about the world and how it works. Greater awareness of inequality and an absence of religious moral guidance (I am not religious, but I cannot deny that most religions prescribe fairly commendable moral teachings) arguably results in an increasingly competitive and selfish society.
The merits and ills of democracy is a whole different kettle of fish, so I'll refrain from another massive rant.
I like what you said except for the second part.
I'll respond in two ways:
Internet Person:
Broken Window Fallacy! Think Deeper moron! I'm so smrt, why you so ingant
Normal Person:
I think you are mistaken about the issue of jobs. It is a matter of the seen vs the unseen. Sure, a cashier may have a job that you can see, and think "oh look, there is a job". However you are not considering the jobs created when you use a self checkout. A cashier is one job. The technology used for self checkout involves 1. the engineer who designs the machine 2. the factory workers who produce the machine 3. the truckers who transport the machine 4. the store worker who installs the machine and many more.
These effects are not so easily seen, but after thinking it out you see that the issue is no where near as simple. This is often called the "Broken Window Fallacy" in which someone says "if i go to the butcher and break his window (or checkout register) then the butcher (supermarket manager) will have to hire a window repairman (cashier) to fix it. Therefore breaking windows must create jobs". This doesn't take into account the other ways the butcher would spend his money (he may now have to fire an employee, he may not expand his business, he may not take on new apprentices, etc.)
If you want to see a more elaborate and insightful discussion of the same topic, but using a far simpler object, check out this amazing short video that may change the way you view everyday economic interaction:
PS: Man... I need to get a life
With the jobs you listed though, a lot of those are temporary/contract in nature. There's an argument to be made about redundant unnecessary jobs I'm sure but right now its very hard to get work even at the bottom of the chain. Countries like the US and the UK will demonize those on benefits even if there's no jobs for them, until we have a better system for dealing with that (no idea there) I wouldn't want the places I shop at to make me especially reliant on computer based services.