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Are there any opponents that need a +5 weepon to hit them?

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  • TaearTaear Member Posts: 90

    Previously, the only opponent who needed +5 was the demilich you got from the Deck of Many Things if you were (un)lucky.

    Demogorgon didn't need +5 in BGII, and I bet he doesn't need +5 in BGIIEE, either. Could be wrong, of course.

    Are you sure? I seem to remember I could only hit him with Twinkle, everything else just got "my weapon has no effect".

  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,305
    Taear said:

    Previously, the only opponent who needed +5 was the demilich you got from the Deck of Many Things if you were (un)lucky.

    Demogorgon didn't need +5 in BGII, and I bet he doesn't need +5 in BGIIEE, either. Could be wrong, of course.

    Are you sure? I seem to remember I could only hit him with Twinkle, everything else just got "my weapon has no effect".

    +3 or higher technically will work on him.
  • PibaroPibaro Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 2,989
    Wich is bettere vs undead: Daystar or mace of destruction +2?
    I know Daystar can make huge amount of damage, but Mace of destruction +2 can instant destroy, I always kill the demilich form of Kangaxx in 1 or 2 rounds whit it.
  • PawnSlayerPawnSlayer Member Posts: 295
    Mace of Destruction wins every time, it hits as a +5 and can instantly destroy.
  • AbelAbel Member Posts: 782
    Main difference is you can find Daystar very soon in the game. Mace of Disruption is Chapter 3 if I remember correctly.
  • nanonano Member Posts: 1,632
    Mace of disruption is unreliable though. I prefer Daystar because it's guaranteed damage. It doesn't matter how lucky you are with your saves, damage always wins in the end. If you want to pop a lich instantly I prefer backstabs or traps because those are consistent and predictable.
  • FerozbanFerozban Member Posts: 31
    daystar does not work as a +4 weapon. its a +2, it simply has +4 thac0 against undead and more damage.
    that may be a bug, as it surely should be a +4 against undead, otherwise you cant even hit higher vampires with it. seems kinda stupid
    and the spell of daystar does not work against kangaxx demilich form as well.
  • SkaffenSkaffen Member Posts: 709
    @Ferozban No, it has been changed with some other +x to hit vs. opponent in EE (not consistently for all weapons with different +x though)
    elminsterjackjack
  • FerozbanFerozban Member Posts: 31
    Skaffen said:

    @Ferozban No, it has been changed with some other +x to hit vs. opponent in EE (not consistently for all weapons with different +x though)

    good to know. one of the changes i had hoped for :)

  • kaffekoppenkaffekoppen Member Posts: 377
    nano said:

    Mace of disruption is unreliable though. I prefer Daystar because it's guaranteed damage. It doesn't matter how lucky you are with your saves, damage always wins in the end. If you want to pop a lich instantly I prefer backstabs or traps because those are consistent and predictable.

    I haven't been able to backstab any liches and I've tried it a few times already. The moment I strike, all their protection are activated. PfMW! Yay.

    Traps on the other hand. They work almost too well.
  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,162
    Aren't all undead immune to backstab?
  • LathlaerLathlaer Member Posts: 475
    Better have both because Daystar is awesome and if you want to do maximum damage, you will need crushing damage against bone golems and skeleton warriors :)
  • nanonano Member Posts: 1,632

    nano said:

    Mace of disruption is unreliable though. I prefer Daystar because it's guaranteed damage. It doesn't matter how lucky you are with your saves, damage always wins in the end. If you want to pop a lich instantly I prefer backstabs or traps because those are consistent and predictable.

    I haven't been able to backstab any liches and I've tried it a few times already. The moment I strike, all their protection are activated. PfMW! Yay.

    Traps on the other hand. They work almost too well.
    You need to be very quick, and it depends on the lich. I've been able to backstab (or rather Harm, I find it more reliable as many liches have too much HP to go down in one backstab though they do take proper backstab damage) the ones that appear next to you. The Kangaxx series of liches is vulnerable as is the lich you release from the soul trap in the Underdark, Deirex of the Jae'llat, and Shangalar of the Twisted Rune. The window of opportunity is very small so I would make sure you have a backup plan for killing it the hard way.

    A trick I like to use on the Kangaxx liches is what I call the "cleric/thief backstab". Drop a regular thief trap where the lich will spawn, cast your holy trinity and prep a Harm (and maybe some protections in case something goes wrong). When you release the lich he's still neutral because he's about to speak, which means he has no protections up and the trap won't trigger. Hit him with the Harm, bringing him down to one HP and turning him hostile. The trap sees him now and kills him instantly :)

    @booinyoureyes, some do detect invisibility (liches) but they can still be backstabbed. The main guys that can't be backstabbed are beholders and dragons.
  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,162
    see... thats just weird. Dragons can barely see things from all the way up there and have a lot of flesh to expose. Undead have no vitals! wtf!

    Plus every attack on a beholder=poke in the eye. Those seriously hurt
    Abel
  • nanonano Member Posts: 1,632
    I would be pretty happy with a change like that. Grumble grumble... damn beholders.. damn dragons... damn beholder-dragons...
  • kryptixkryptix Member Posts: 741
    I just trap the crap out of every lich I can, I actually took down hell irenicus in SCS with 5x spike traps and 1x exploding followed by 3x dragons breath as soon as he turned red...

    Then ADHW 3x in a contingency and I was like why did I bother buffing for 5 minutes...
  • kaffekoppenkaffekoppen Member Posts: 377
    Ha. 5 spike traps is 100d6 damage, right? Poor Irenicus :)
    elminsterjackjackbooinyoureyes
  • kryptixkryptix Member Posts: 741

    Ha. 5 spike traps is 100d6 damage, right? Poor Irenicus :)

    Actually it didn't quite kill him lol never knew he had so many hp, but hexxqt romance this time and so I decided to just trap stuff to make her useful. Staff of the ram also lets her pop things...
  • vangoatvangoat Member Posts: 212
    edited March 2014
    Ferozban said:

    Koyote said:

    @Ferozban I went back and checked old guides. The drow summoned demon in underdark also requires +5 to hit and is probably a lot more fun to battle then a demilich.

    Thank you. i was lucky to be in the drow city at the moment to test it and its true.

    i could only hit him with sling of everaad and my mage with melfs meteroids (which count as +5 as well)

    any +4 weapon was ineffective.

    it was a great fight really. and totally unexpected to meat such a challenge so soon in the game. i mean he needs fucking +5 weapon to be killed, what if you dont have any around :P

    no wonder the drow want him to join their battle
    mordy's swords will hit that demon and he can't hit them back.. i think the swords almost need a crit roll to hit him though
  • WebShamanWebShaman Member Posts: 487
    The Lesser Demonlord that is summoned at the end of the Drow City quests needs +5 weapons to hit, provided one either gives the real Silver Dragon Eggs away, or attacks it after it is summoned.
  • xzar_montyxzar_monty Member Posts: 631
    @WebShaman: That lesser demon lord is a monster I've never attacked. How tough an opponent is it, relatively speaking? How does it tend to attack you? Does it have any special abilities?
  • WebShamanWebShaman Member Posts: 487
    I haven't fought it yet. That said, if you have +5 weapons (or better), it should go down relatively easy. I should think normal types of Demon stuff, etc. The real problem will be if you don't get the Silver Dragon Eggs back...you are going to have one big, bad, nasty Silver Dragon on your behind!

    And she is much, much worse than the lesser Demonlord! (aside from needing +5 weapons to hit, that is).
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,305
    As long as you have breach (which you really should) and a +5 weapon he should go down pretty easy. I normally end up killing him with spells.
  • xzar_montyxzar_monty Member Posts: 631
    @elminster: What does he do that you need breach for? (Ahh, that most important of spells!)

    Somehow I would expect him to be extremely powerful, given how effortlessly he gets rid of two remarkable drow. He's a demon prince, after all. But then, Demogorgon doesn't pose much of a challenge, either...
  • WebShamanWebShaman Member Posts: 487
    Well, immunity to magic weapons, perhaps, hmm?

    And not a Demon Prince, but a Lesser Demonlord.

    Not sure what a difference that is, however.

    And as for effortlessly taking down two remarkable drow...they did not have +5 weapons, so what really could they do? Pray?

    And they probably had the wrong spells memorized, seeing as how they were convinced that they were about to succeed!

    elminster
  • Demonoid_LimewireDemonoid_Limewire Member Posts: 424
    Demi-lich form of Kangaxx, and Demi-lich form of the Watcher's Keep lich boss, near the Githyanki area. Anything below +5 won't even touch them, let alone land a hit.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,305

    @elminster: What does he do that you need breach for? (Ahh, that most important of spells!)

    Apparently for no reason whatsoever! Though having lower resistance would help.
  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,703
    Any mage that use absolute immunity (level 9 spell) can be hit by +6 weapons only during the effect of the spell.
    jackjack
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511

    @WebShaman: That lesser demon lord is a monster I've never attacked. How tough an opponent is it, relatively speaking? How does it tend to attack you? Does it have any special abilities?

    He is very strong. I attacked him once as an experiment and he ripped my party to shreds in seconds.

    I think you would have to do watchers keep before underdark to take him out.

  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,305
    edited March 2014
    Fardragon said:

    @WebShaman: That lesser demon lord is a monster I've never attacked. How tough an opponent is it, relatively speaking? How does it tend to attack you? Does it have any special abilities?

    He is very strong. I attacked him once as an experiment and he ripped my party to shreds in seconds.

    I think you would have to do watchers keep before underdark to take him out.

    He's not immune to blindness, stun, level drain, ability drain, or being held and has no regeneration ability, so it really comes down to strategy on how to beat him. He hits like a brick but as long as you are prepared for that and for his high magic resistance and panic/confusion/charm/paralyze causing abilities it should be fine. You really don't need to do Watcher's Keep to beat him.
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