IMO. The xvarts are misunderstood,tribal, perhaps not very bright, produce no great works of art, hold little value to wandering demigods. However, their presence represents humor, no need to bring in real world comparisons! This game is a fantasy after all. As its an RPG, we, the player manufacture our fictional motives in the game. that is the point after all.
Just for the reccord i am not accusing anybody of beign ''hitler // nazi'' kind of guy.
We are all living in violence and in a violent society. Many games such as Baldur's gate are based on the very concept of killing people and creatures. Does that make us mentally ill for playing those kind of games? Probably not. I think we all know where is the line between reality and fiction. Real violence and fantasy.
People whit bad intention will be bad. There's no need of violent video game or violent movie to convince them to put in act their evil deeds.
You might also argue the spiders in the Cloakwood shouldn't be killed; you are after all intruding on their territory as well.
True, but you can't reason with, or even talk to spiders. I will just quote another fandom's catchphrase: "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings" and rest my case.
That might be true on Earth where most sentient beings are in the "shade of grey" alignment area with flexible moralities, but in D&D it's generally very hard to reason a naturally evil being into becoming good.
And well, you could have the option to bring spiders, wolves, bears etc some food so they wouldn't feel as much of a need to eat you. Unlike xvarts they're acting more on instinct than a desire to harm and "be evil" - I don't see why that should make them less worthy of being spared.
You might also argue the spiders in the Cloakwood shouldn't be killed; you are after all intruding on their territory as well.
True, but you can't reason with, or even talk to spiders. I will just quote another fandom's catchphrase: "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings" and rest my case.
That might be true on Earth where most sentient beings are in the "shade of grey" alignment area with flexible moralities, but in D&D it's generally very hard to reason a naturally evil being into becoming good.
And well, you could have the option to bring spiders, wolves, bears etc some food so they wouldn't feel as much of a need to eat you. Unlike xvarts they're acting more on instinct than a desire to harm and "be evil" - I don't see why that should make them less worthy of being spared.
D&D alignments exist as a label though, and are changeable. Hell, in ToB you literally can reason a naturally evil creature into an alignment change: Viconia. I think it is a big problem in D&D generally when people start thinking alignment is anything other than a convenient label that often fails to take in the bigger picture, just like in real life. In another ToB example we have Balthazar, the Lawful Good antagonist. The alignment system isn't set in stone for anyone other than fiends and angels.
@Communard I agree, I've always had a problem w/ the D&D alignment system. I think it makes characters and the world less believable. In my experience with D&D, alignment is used as a quick, easy reference for players, so that they are not dealing w/ unknown quantities when encountering an NPC for the first time. Why should characters not have to explore the personalities of those they're interacting with and discover their personal morals, as much as they're expected to explore the landscape of the game world? I could never get immersed in the alignment system b/c it's very un-human.
If they place a burly xvart death machine, wearing full plate armour and dual bastard swords, who pops out a tent after you have slaughtered the xvart village, then i may buy this game twice.
D&D alignments exist as a label though, and are changeable. Hell, in ToB you literally can reason a naturally evil creature into an alignment change: Viconia. I think it is a big problem in D&D generally when people start thinking alignment is anything other than a convenient label that often fails to take in the bigger picture, just like in real life. In another ToB example we have Balthazar, the Lawful Good antagonist. The alignment system isn't set in stone for anyone other than fiends and angels.
Yeah, I didn't mean to imply it's altogether set in stone - I wrote that it would be very hard, and I think the process with Viconia qualifies as that, the whole thing taking a lot of time, effort and emotion, so to speak.
However, I consider the alignments to be more than a label. Unlike Earth the D&D realms actually do house a lot of beings with a propensity to swing one way or the other, making their alignments quite real. As you say there are some exceptions (Drizzt, Solaufein etc), but in general when you see a drow, orc, illithid etc, it'd be a pretty fair assumption that they're not very friendly. That's how those races by all accounts seem to work - so to consider them all to be like D&D humans with equal propensity for pretty much any alignment just doesn't seem accurate.
@Shin some of the Drow stuff is cultural, rather than ingrained into them by race. I mean, yes, they are Chaotic and Evil- and most of them see nothing wrong with it when they are raised in that Culture. But just as there are people who reject their own culture and the beliefs they were raised with for something else, there are Drow who manage to reject their culture and their roles within it- they are just few and far between.
@LadyRhian Aye, it seems likely that at least some of the evil races aren't born evil, but I'm not sure how much D&D has ever delved into that. Drow are likely almost physiologically identical to surface elves, so it's not like they physically lack the capacity for feelings like empathy, love etc. Indeed their alignment is probably mostly due to Lolth and her hold on them.
@Shin Yes, and most people don't remember that Lolth used to be Corellion Larethian's consort, under her original name, Arushnee. I don't think all the Dark Elves who originally followed her underground were evil, but living in the culture she came up with for them (she actually makes them chaotic because she believes the unrestrained competition makes them stronger), now it's mostly nature, but also a lot nurture.
No problems in slaughter Xvarts or indeed anything which ventures my way which either looks at me funny or likes like it might possess something I like the look off/can pawn off for a few GP. I generally play good alignments too.
Xvarts are evil. Evil needs to be crushed, mercy for evil is merely allowing evildoers to perpetuate their evil on other innocents at a later date... plus they might have loot!
@decado actually, how do you know that xvarts are evil. You might be right, i just remember that the ones in bg1 had befriended a bear as a protector of the village, and always thought them to be like druids. And i rarely see an evil druid, so i always assumed them to be neutral.
@leronis lol this is awesome is this from an episode of sesame street or is it something done by someone else with permission? like an interview that didn't show up on sesame street.
@Bjjorick - I'm fairly sure (though it's been a while since I played through) that someone mentions that the Xvarts had been raiding the farms in and around Nashkel and that they had established a base somewhere to do this from? Saving the villagers by wiping out a band of monsters is adventurer bread and butter, it's what we do!
Plus you notice that there is only warrior males in the 'village' (that I noticed anyway, who can tell). This lends further credence to the fact this is a base for a raiding band rather than a true village.
But yeah, if you want to save them just turn yourself invisible and bypass them entirely - I'm sure the farmers they are raiding and looting will thank you
ehhhh i take great joy from slaughtering druids, especially neutral ones. Get on one side or the other, a fence straddler is just someone who hasn't betrayed me....yet....
speaking of which, 'if memory serves...', wasn't yoshimo true neutral?
Comments
IMO. The xvarts are misunderstood,tribal, perhaps not very bright, produce no great works of art, hold little value to wandering demigods. However, their presence represents humor, no need to bring in real world comparisons! This game is a fantasy after all. As its an RPG, we, the player manufacture our fictional motives in the game. that is the point after all.
Just for the reccord i am not accusing anybody of beign ''hitler // nazi'' kind of guy.
We are all living in violence and in a violent society. Many games such as Baldur's gate are based on the very concept of killing people and creatures. Does that make us mentally ill for playing those kind of games? Probably not. I think we all know where is the line between reality and fiction. Real violence and fantasy.
People whit bad intention will be bad. There's no need of violent video game or violent movie to convince them to put in act their evil deeds.
This is an essential mod for me, I wouldn't play the game without it (SCS II).
http://www.gibberlings3.net/scs/
http://www.gibberlings3.net/scsii/
I haven't played the game in over 4 years now, but when I did I used the Baldurs Gate Trilogy with a ton of mods.
And well, you could have the option to bring spiders, wolves, bears etc some food so they wouldn't feel as much of a need to eat you. Unlike xvarts they're acting more on instinct than a desire to harm and "be evil" - I don't see why that should make them less worthy of being spared.
However, I consider the alignments to be more than a label. Unlike Earth the D&D realms actually do house a lot of beings with a propensity to swing one way or the other, making their alignments quite real. As you say there are some exceptions (Drizzt, Solaufein etc), but in general when you see a drow, orc, illithid etc, it'd be a pretty fair assumption that they're not very friendly. That's how those races by all accounts seem to work - so to consider them all to be like D&D humans with equal propensity for pretty much any alignment just doesn't seem accurate.
Short swords OR axes is my answer
Xvarts are evil. Evil needs to be crushed, mercy for evil is merely allowing evildoers to perpetuate their evil on other innocents at a later date... plus they might have loot!
Plus you notice that there is only warrior males in the 'village' (that I noticed anyway, who can tell). This lends further credence to the fact this is a base for a raiding band rather than a true village.
But yeah, if you want to save them just turn yourself invisible and bypass them entirely - I'm sure the farmers they are raiding and looting will thank you
speaking of which, 'if memory serves...', wasn't yoshimo true neutral?