More Cleric Kits

Sceptenar

I would request that more cleric kits be added allowing you a broader choice in which deity your character worships. Currently the choices are Lathander (for good characters), Helm (for neutral characters) and Talos (for evil characters).

I would suggest having one deity for each of the nine alignments. For example LG: Tyr, NG: Lathander, CG: Selune, LN: Helm, N: Oghma, CN: Tempus, LE: Loviatar (preferably Bane if he has returned to life by then), NE: Shar (Viconia is a dead ringer for this one), CE: Talos.

Simply limiting your choices to the original three is not neccessary, and the Forgotten Realms has so many good deities to choose from.

The_New_Romance

Or give us "real" Cleric kits rather than just normal clerics of different gods. I'm not good with AD&D kits, but I guess there were real specialists such as the Hierophant or Divine Agent prestige classes in 3E. Stuff such as a cleric who can use pointed and bladed weapons, or a cleric that gets limited mage spells as well.

Sceptenar

@The_New_Romance
That's also a good idea. Instead of focusing on deities, you could do deity neutral prestige classes like Hierophant, Evangelist or Divine Disciple.

Silence

I'd be a fan of one or two more cleric kits for sure. They seemed to be comparatively simple and should be easier to program. After all, it's really just one or two special spells and that's it. It adds so much personalization feel, too.

DougPiranha

Two problems here:
- There are no temples of other gods in the temple district.
- There is a 9 kit limitation, so this would fill all the slots, and there would be no place for mod kits.

Although this could be a great DLC - a bunch of priest kits you can choose to install, and some sort of dynamic temple area that spawns different priests based on your kit selection.

And in 2nd edition DnD there are specialist priests, but they are not clerics with 2 special powers as implemented in SoA. They have more varied powers, and also hindrances. Divine remix mod tries to implement this to a degree.

Aliteri

DougPiranha said:

Two problems here:
- There are no temples of other gods in the temple district.
- There is a 9 kit limitation, so this would fill all the slots, and there would be no place for mod kits.

1) I believe that if the new Cleric Kits aren't deity specific, they'd be similar to the pure Cleric, no?

2) Didn't mods already break the 9 kit limitation? And even if not, that's the sort of coding update I'd expect.

DougPiranha

Aliteri said:

1) I believe that if the new Cleric Kits aren't deity specific, they'd be similar to the pure Cleric, no?

There are alternatives to cleric in 2ed, like shaman, mystic, crusader, but then it's not realy a cleric specific question, if they get new kits, so should other classes.

Sceptenar

Yes, certainly there are limitations in the original infinity engine code, but if you're already tearing the original code apart, what is to stop you from lifting those limitations? And would it really be such a problem with not having temples for each god? We could just go with good clerics work for Lathander, neutral for Helm and evil for Talos.

Kithrixx

Man, everyone wants more kit options, it seems.

Aliteri

@DougPiranha

DougPiranha said:

Aliteri said:

1) I believe that if the new Cleric Kits aren't deity specific, they'd be similar to the pure Cleric, no?

There are alternatives to cleric in 2ed, like shaman, mystic, crusader, but then it's not realy a cleric specific question, if they get new kits, so should other classes.

No no, I meant from a purely gameplay standpoint. Wouldn't the issue of limited temples in Athkatla be linked to the cleric quests?

Tanthalas

Well, if you have a base Cleric you still get to do the Cleric stronghold quests. Though I agree that it would be kind of strange for the Temple of Helm to provide a space for a Battleguard of Tempus and stuff like that.

LadyRhian

I so want a specialty Priest of Selune. I am hungering for that Moonblade spell (3rd level) that does so much damage to the undead for a cleric (2d12+4 per hit). I so want to pwn Bhodi's ass with that. Biased? Me? Never!

IchigoRXC

LadyRhian said:

I so want a specialty Priest of Selune. I am hungering for that Moonblade spell (3rd level) that does so much damage to the undead for a cleric (2d12+4 per hit). I so want to pwn Bhodi's ass with that. Biased? Me? Never!

I just want a Moonblade of my own. I am so envious of Xan

Xavioria

OH my goodness this would be amazing. And there are other temples in the other districts, aren't there? I'm remembering a few; Illmater (the promenade and the slums), Ohgma (docks), Waukeen (Trademeet), don't know if trademeet would count though. Honestly, why wouldn't we be able to be specialty priests of Umberlee, or Ohgma, or Selune, or Sune, or Shar. If you're elven or Dwarven or whatever, there could be that pantheon just for those races! AND...

Hmmmm... ya know what? that's alot of work...

LadyRhian

@IchigoRXC It's not the same as an elven Moonblade, It's blade formed of moonlight that can't be dropped or taken away (or broken). You hit with a normal cleric THAC0, but the blade gets +4 to hit, and is especially good against undead. There is also Wall of Moonlight, a 4th level spell that causes 4d12 damage to any undead who try to pass through it.

Elven Moonblades are extremely magical, and can only be used by the family who owns them. Even then, they have to pass a test by the blade, which reads their soul (mind/beliefs/actions). There is an elf named Elaith Craulnober, an evil elf of Waterdeep. He's the last of his family- he has a Moonblade, but did not pass the test to wield it, so he drifted into greater evil and depravity. In one of the Arilyn Moonblade books (he serves as an antagonist to the female main character), he discovers that he has had a child with a former slave of his. And his daughter has the power to wield the Moonblade. This is making him drift back to his former more good alignment in order to teach his daughter what she needs to wield the family blade.

Amardarial

I would love more kits for all classes, though I agree Clerics need WAY more love then the rest save Wizards who got shafted and just got Specialists instead of actual kits like Archmage, etc.

Kits I'd love to see by class.

Barbarian -- Frenzied Bererker, Eye of Grumish
Fighter -- Spellblade
Ranger -- Arcane Archer
Cleric -- Hierophant, Seer, Favored Soul
Mage -- Archmage
Theif -- Shadowdancer, Scout
Druid -- Shaman
Paladin --Knight
Monk -- (Never played monks, so don't know much for them)
Sorcerer -- Dragon Blood, Demon Blood, Fey Blood, Celestial Blood

A lot of those are 3e Prestige Classes, but kits could easily be made for them, and they would add a lot of variety to the game both at low and higher levels.

Hmm....think I need to make a new post...

GemHound

@Xavioria

Waukeen (Trademeet)

You know there is one in Athkatla(Government District) and also one in ToB(Balthazar's Town)... right?

anyways, this is something I want very much.

ajwz

It would be really nice to have the option to pick your choice of deity, and for clerics there should be a unique spell for each one

LordsDarkKnight185

I loved Divine Remix. everything about it. (I love spell spheres, which bg lacked completely)
I love the idea of extra kits, i want my option to be a painbearer of ilmater!
AND Beamdog is working with ascention64(or whatever) TO impliment the tobex (Throne of Bhaal Extender) into the UI itself, which broke the 9-kit limit and adds a scrolling feature to the UI.

Xavioria

Totally agree with you @LordsDarkKnight185, Divine remix was amazing. Not only did it add the awesome kits there, but it also gave the option of putting the Tempus priest on Branwen and the Shar priest on Viconia, which very nicely integrates the mod even better, because you yourself does not have to be a priest in order to enjoy the mod.

AurenRavidel

Sceptenar said:

Simply limiting your choices to the original three is not neccessary, and the Forgotten Realms has so many good deities to choose from.

I agree completely. The funny thing is that the three choices they provided in the base game aren't some of the more popular options, to my knowledge. Helm's one of the most boring gods in the entire Faerun pantheon, for example.

LadyRhian said:

I so want a specialty Priest of Selune. I am hungering for that Moonblade spell (3rd level) that does so much damage to the undead for a cleric (2d12+4 per hit). I so want to pwn Bhodi's ass with that. Biased? Me? Never!

YES! The Silverstars are my personal favorite cleric 'kit' from the Powers and Pantheons book. They've just got so much style (and Selune's my fav deity). The only thing I don't like about having one deity per alignment is that there are a lot of really cool concepts that would be left out. I'd much rather be a cleric of Mystra than Lathander, for example.

Most of these new kits should be fairly easy to implement, especially if they just provide extra spells.

LadyRhian

@AurenRavidel Yes, and it seems that they chose the most boring deities. Helm, really? Why not Tymora or Llira, Tyr or Torm? Allow Bards to have Milil as their deity, and Druids Chauntea, Eldath, Silvanus or Mielikki. Mages have Azuth or Mystra, plus Deneir or Oghma (depending on their focus). Even Evil characters have Iyachtu Xvim, Bane, Talona, Loviatar, Talos, Malar, Beshaba, Auril and Umberlee... There are so many gods, even lf you leave out the dead ones, like Myrkul and Aumanator, and the Demi-Gods like Nobanion, The Red Queen, and Jergal.

(Edited to fix the name of Iyachtu Xvim)

LordsDarkKnight185

LadyRhian said:

@AurenRavidel Yes, and it seems that they chose the most boring deities. Helm, really? Why not Tymora or Llira, Tyr or Torm? Allow Bards to have Milil as their deity, and Druids Chauntea, Eldath, Silvanus or Mielikki. Mages have Azuth or Mystra, plus Deneir or Oghma (depending on their focus). Even Evil characters have Iachtu Xvim, Bane, Talona, Loviatar, Talos, Malar, Beshaba, Auril and Umberlee... There are so many gods, even lf you leave out the dead ones, like Myrkul and Aumanator, and the Demi-Gods like Nobanion, The Red Queen, and Jergal.

Druids are in fact meant to be an example of a specialty priest, and are in fact the same damn thing as a specialty priest of Silvanus or Mielikki.

And i think the reason THOSE specific gods where chosen, is because they are neutral. (Lathander NG, Helm LN, Talos, CN) While i agree it would be MUCH more fun to have lots more kits (See my constant rants and obsession over Divine Remix) I do understand why the specific deities were chosen for BG2.

Xavioria

Well I understand as well, but I can see why alot of people turned away from those three kits that were listed. Helm IS one of the most boring things evar, and Talos is so chaotic that I think people brushed him off too. Personally, I'd love to be a priest of Umberlee. Even though I favor Ohgma... I think the god of knowledge might be just as boring as helm XD

AurenRavidel

LordsDarkKnight185 said:

And i think the reason THOSE specific gods where chosen, is because they are neutral. (Lathander NG, Helm LN, Talos, CN) While i agree it would be MUCH more fun to have lots more kits (See my constant rants and obsession over Divine Remix) I do understand why the specific deities were chosen for BG2.

Talos is actually CE, not CN. I understand trying to cover the spectrum of alignments, but they didn't really do that, especially if you're playing a Lawful Evil character. Your LE cleric is stuck worshiping Helm. Umm...no.

LN, CN, NG and NE would've been a better alignment split than what they had, just because it would've done a much better job of covering all the bases. You'd only be one step away from something that would make sense for your character. The developers clearly didn't want to give any class more kits than the others, though, and I think that's one of the reasons we got stuck with the three sucky ones. I'd have gone with four at least:

LN: Kelemvor - Doombringer (better against and utilizing undead. Bonus to saves against death magic. Lots of possibilities here)

NG: Mystra - Dweomerkeeper (the kit would've been far more interesting, providing the players with some mage spells and/or a bonus to saves vs magic).

NE: Shar - Nightcloak (Immunity to blindness, darkness spells including the signature spell Armor of Darkness, which I'll neglect to note in it's entirety, but trust me it's cool/useful)

CN: Tempus - Battleguard (This one's a no-brainer. Give the priest the ability to specialize in weapons and some cool battle magic)

Keep in mind that the four I mentioned aren't even my favorites. My suggestions are based off what I think would provide the greatest flavor/mass appeal. If I had it my way, you could only select Selune, Sune, and Tymora. (I got a thing for CG chicks, I guess)

LadyRhian

I still want Selune. I was just pointing out (maybe in another thread, it's been a while since I made that comment) that Rasad yn Bashir is tattooed with the sign/holy symbol of Selune, so adding Selunite specialty priests would work.

AurenRavidel

No arguments here. If they implemented a Silverstar kit I'd be 2nd in line to play it (since you're already in the line). Been a fan of the concept for years and even played one in a short tabletop campaign.

trinit

more kits! more kits for everybody(class)!

LordsDarkKnight185

Oh yeah...i always confuse Tempus and Talos, >.<

Grayvie

I'm strongly against the overabundance of kits... They would just be confusing and the benefits they offer would probably be insignificant... And lastly the majority of kits can be substituted for with multiclassing or dualclassing... As for for priest kits... I would've like to see a priest of Tempus (I see nothing wrong with church of Helm welcoming priests of Tempus since these deities are pretty close in alignment and nature... unless there is something I'm not aware of since I'm not that D&D savy...). I envision him being more battle oriented with bonuses to attack and defense and crippled spellcasting (not getting every cleric spell or having less spell slots) and some minor but nice thing like resist fear or even imunity to fear... Well... my point is that new kits should bring some significant changes to classes or they would simply be pointless...

Kithrixx

@Grayvie You use way too many ellipses. Either way, there is nothing wrong with more player customization.

Either way, there's a metric butt ton of Priest Kits already implemented in Icewind Dale II, and I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be too difficult to just port those on over. They even cover the deities that everyone is itching for, fancy that.