Are there any plans for strengthening the Dragon Disciple class?

Arriv87

Are there any plans for strengthening the Dragon Disciple class? The very idea of DD is great, but this class is sure far less powerful than sorcerer. I think that DD should have 1 use of breath weapon for every 5 or 6 lv, than it would be some alternative for sorcerer. Simply 9 spells less than sorcerer in exchange of more durability and 5/6 (in ToB) spell-like ability is fair trade. Not more powerful than sorcerer but different.
Also, are there plans to introduce different varieties of DD?

Maxxximus

Arriv87 said:

Are there any plans for strengthening the Dragon Disciple class? The very idea of DD is great, but this class is sure far less powerful than sorcerer. I think that DD should have 1 use of breath weapon for every 5 or 6 lv, than it would be some alternative for sorcerer. Simply 9 spells less than sorcerer in exchange of more durability and 5/6 (in ToB) spell-like ability is fair trade. Not more powerful than sorcerer but different.
Also, are there plans to introduce different varieties of DD?

Yeah +1 use of breath weapon at level 8 for example would be great.
@Elminister what do u think?(as a pro DD player)

TheArtisan

This is the sort of thing you'd be better off asking the community for a mod to fix than the developers. Not that I think the DD couldn't do with a slight buff, but I doubt it's a very high priority change.

elminster

Maxxximus said:

Arriv87 said:

Are there any plans for strengthening the Dragon Disciple class? The very idea of DD is great, but this class is sure far less powerful than sorcerer. I think that DD should have 1 use of breath weapon for every 5 or 6 lv, than it would be some alternative for sorcerer. Simply 9 spells less than sorcerer in exchange of more durability and 5/6 (in ToB) spell-like ability is fair trade. Not more powerful than sorcerer but different.
Also, are there plans to introduce different varieties of DD?

Yeah +1 use of breath weapon at level 8 for example would be great.
@Elminister what do u think?(as a pro DD player)

I wish there was a way to get me tagged whenever someone writes in @elminister. I'm guessing 99% of the time they are getting the name wrong

I personally would prefer it to have a strength boost instead of a constitution boost. But its an easy change for modders and its not something I plan to raise internally.

bob_veng

i think dd should get a fire damage boost. 15% or 20%

TheArtisan

Personally, I'd give it some of the bonuses from the NWN prestige class:

- STR and CHA bonuses (I agree with @elminster, CON bonus is actually really annoying for a non-fighter since it encourages starting without 16 CON unless you wear the Claw of Kazgoroth in BG1)
- Increased movement speed (wings)
- Increased hit dice with level

Hmm... *maybe* not all at once, though.

Maxxximus

elminster said:

I wish there was a way to get me tagged whenever someone writes in @elminister. I'm guessing 99% of the time they are getting the name wrong

@elminster DOW

bob_veng

Artemius_I said:

Personally, I'd give it some of the bonuses from the NWN prestige class:

- STR and CHA bonuses (I agree with @elminster, CON bonus is actually really annoying for a non-fighter since it encourages starting without 16 CON unless you wear the Claw of Kazgoroth in BG1)
- Increased movement speed (wings)
- Increased hit dice with level

Hmm... *maybe* not all at once, though.

str bonus would be a bit pointless because it's there to make his physical attacks effective and the bg version doesn't have any physical aptitude
cha bonus would similarly be pointless because charisma doesn't do anything in bg apart from prices
increased movement speed would be nice
increasing hd is too complicated, a bigger con bonus would i think be better

increased movement speed sounds ok but the sprite doesn't have wings so it'd have to be explained another way

so bringing him closer to the nwn/p&p version wouldn't do much; he should probably get something new

Maxxximus

Artemius_I said:

Not that I think the DD couldn't do with a slight buff.

Yeah slight buff +1-2 breath weapon use and 10% fire dmg boost
@Dee what do u think?

bob_veng

two uses?

meh

even numbers suck

Maxxximus

bob_veng said:

two uses?

meh

even numbers suck

better than nothing

thelovebat

bob_veng said:

Artemius_I said:

Personally, I'd give it some of the bonuses from the NWN prestige class:

- STR and CHA bonuses (I agree with @elminster, CON bonus is actually really annoying for a non-fighter since it encourages starting without 16 CON unless you wear the Claw of Kazgoroth in BG1)
- Increased movement speed (wings)
- Increased hit dice with level

Hmm... *maybe* not all at once, though.

str bonus would be a bit pointless because it's there to make his physical attacks effective and the bg version doesn't have any physical aptitude

For physical aptitude you're mostly right, since their melee weapon prowess is non-existent mostly. However, Darts and Slings get damage bonuses based on Strength, so there's that since when not casting spells those are the two easy choices for Mage weapons. It's not much, but it's something if your character has a good Dexterity for increased THACO. Whereas increased Constitution only really gives you health regeneration if it gets high enough, but you don't have too many hitpoints like other classes do to begin with so free healing there doesn't help quite as much as a Fighter with lots of HPs. At least a Strength bonus would give you something if you hit 19 Strength and also a huge boost in carrying capacity.

elminster

@thelovebat I think you mean daggers and slings

You can see my spiel on this topic here

https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/33001/give-dragon-disciples-a-strength-bonus-instead-of-a-constitution-bonus

bob_veng

ok i see.

str would be better then. should it then be:
+2 str instead of con?
perhaps both +2 str and +2 con?
+4 str, +2 con? (not all at once)?
just +4 str? (mbe +2 at level 1 and then lvl 10)?

with the issues laid out by op in mind (giving dd something to even him out with sorc), +4 str, +2 con is i feel the best. or just +4 str

but if we forgo such unprecedented stat boosts for this game and rule edition and still decide to help the dd, i think fire damage boost is the best idea.

maybe +2 str, no con bonus and some fire damage percentage increase

and uhm maybe a free use of dragon's breath at lvl 20

but it would perfect if of all classes only he could cast dragon's breath (and get a free use of it, not just and exclusive hla pick)

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