Its pretty common for legendary weapons from folklore to show up in rpgs. Even jrps like FInal Fantasy X has Hrunting in it.
Yeah, that was my first thought too, but now that they point it out, I'm not actually sure there were any mythological weapons in BG1 or Shadows of Amn.
Like, there are a lot of classic DnD Originals, but I don't recall ever swinging around Excalibur or anything. That might've been something new for Throne of Bhaal.
I'm kind of surprised this seems to have never been brought up.
If you insert SetPrivateProfileString('Script','QAMODE','1') into the Baldur.lua file and then hit Ctrl+B while playing through Siege of Dragonspear (it won't work anywhere else) you get a special menu that pops up that lets you advance chapters among other things.
We used it a lot in QA testing because Siege of Dragonspear has a ton of variables at work. So it was a quick way of just testing out a specific chapter quest.
Now it may not be a 100% bug free experience. But if you are making mods in SoD it is useful at least.
So I've just come back to Baldur's Gate after several years of mostly playing Pillars of Eternity and the Dragon Age games. And it turns out that one trick I learned during character creation in Pillars actually applies to Baldur's Gate, as well. You can include accents in your character's name by just copying and pasting them in when naming your character. So now I've given Gorion's Ward names like Scáthach, Étaín, Áine, and the like, since you really get into the Celtic influences when you've spent enough time in Eora.
You don't need to go to such lengths. I just built a test character Accént, and all I had to do for that name was type it in (On my Mac, that's Option-e followed by e for the é). Accents can also be put in save names.
I "accidentally" killed Imoen in the Ducal Palace at the start of Siege of Dragonspear with a skull trap just now. It turns out she has a stack of 80 oils of speed on her, so I should be able to use those to smash the campaign into tiny pieces.
I "accidentally" killed Imoen in the Ducal Palace at the start of Siege of Dragonspear with a skull trap just now. It turns out she has a stack of 80 oils of speed on her, so I should be able to use those to smash the campaign into tiny pieces.
I "accidentally" killed Imoen in the Ducal Palace at the start of Siege of Dragonspear with a skull trap just now. It turns out she has a stack of 80 oils of speed on her, so I should be able to use those to smash the campaign into tiny pieces.
By the way, who will now fill her role in scripted events such as in the undead crypt or at the end of SoD? Biff the Understudy? Or will the game create a copy of her?
By the way, who will now fill her role in scripted events such as in the undead crypt or at the end of SoD? Biff the Understudy? Or will the game create a copy of her?
Game created a copy of her and has proceeded as if nothing happened. Seems to be the EE standard.
Just finished SOD, so quick update on the dead Imoen thing: she was still in all the cutscenes where one would expect her to be, but she disappeared before the very end when the canon party convened, and so she wasn't in my party when Khalid and Jaheira et al were there. So that happened.
Joinable NPCs exist as "universal" actors in the game. They aren't placed in the map files, but instead tracked in BALDUR.gam and the version in the save files. When they're needed somewhere, the game moves them there rather than creating a new version.
Cutscene versions of characters often aren't the same as the joinable versions. Those are created for the cutscenes. For example, in BG2, the version of Imoen you meet in the starting dungeon is IMOEN10 and the version in the cutscene when you reach the surface is CSIMOEN. If you somehow managed to kill Imoen despite her immortality item, it wouldn't affect that cutscene.
So, apparently, SoD has a joinable-type Imoen for the starting dungeon and the finale, but a separate cutscene version for everything between.
After the end of Black Pits 2, there's an extra tier of arena fights set up in the game files. You can't reach them normally and they don't fit at all with any concept of plot, but the creatures and the announcer's spiel are there. Including voice acting. In the words of the new announcer Elgiad:
You have done well, besting Dennaton, but that's no reason to stop the entertainment. I, Elgiad, have scoured the planes far and wide. I offer challenges far greater than Dennaton ever did, rare and ferocious creatures and gladiators of unmatched martial and arcane prowess. Join me!
First fight:
For your first challenge, I give you some familiar faces. You might once have counted these six as allies, but you must have known they'd as soon slit your throat as save your hide! Now's their chance! To arms!
All are identical to the versions summoned by the Fate Spirit, except that Imoen has 40 more HP and Rasaad has a different one of his quest's cloaks. All have dumb "attack nearest enemy scripts, so the three mages won't cast any spells.
Second fight:
You may have expected those last miscreants to turn on you for a couple of coppers, but you would doubtless have trusted these next six to your dying breath. Surprise! Friend is turned to foe! Combatants, to arms!
Sarevok, Dorn, and Korgan are identical to the versions that can join you in ToB. Baeloth is at that level, though with more HP than should be possible. Phaere is a near-copy of Sendai, but with no combat script at all. Saemon is identical to his Amkethran version, including a lack of high-level spells memorized - but at least he knows how to cast something.
Aside from Phaere and Saemon, the other four have dumb "attack nearest enemy" scripts. No spells for Baeoth.
Third fight:
She's a bloodsucking lady of the night with a penchant for graveyards. He's an insane once-elven wizard with a healthy lust for revenge. What do these siblings have in common other than a creepy obsession with you? NOTHING! You've fought them both before. Now face them again, but this time TOGETHER! Combatants! To arms!
Enemies:
Jon Irenicus - mage 30, 146 HP.
Bodhi - level 25, 200 HP.
Cornugon x3 - level 13, 80 HP each.
Vampire x3 - level 14, two with 110 HP and one with 140.
Irenicus is buffed beyond the level of any version you ever fight, with extra HP, innate resistances, and far more spells memorized than he should have slots at every level. And then he gets no combat script whatsoever. Bodhi and the vampires are dumb attackers, but they have good stats and they drain 5 levels per hit. The cornugons, amazingly, actually know how to use their abilities.
Fourth fight:
You have bested the two exiles and their minions! Well played, but I have someone even tougher than they, one strong enough to challenge even the gods themselves. This lady took delusion to a whole new level. I'm sure you've guessed who she is, so let's bring her out and get this party started!
Enemies:
Melissan - cleric 30/mage 30, 276 HP.
Melissan is identical to the version you fight at the Throne. Except that all her scripts have been removed, so she just stands there and takes your hits. Forever. Because she has her immortality item, and no script to remove it.
Or, at least, that's what would happen if the developers hadn't had the foresight to make her turn neutral immediately. With no enemies present, you immediately win the "battle".
Fifth fight:
Amazing! Astounding! A—eh, I'll leave the alliteration to Baeloth. The previous challenger thought herself a god—the next one actually is! Or rather, was. That's right, here's your chance to take on the Lord of Murder himself: Bhaal. To arms!
Enemies:
Bhaal - level 25, 490 HP.
Bhaal looks like Sarevok and fights like Demogorgon. Except he has 200 more HP, two points better THAC0, and two points better AC.
Sixth fight:
Well done! You have faced all manner of creature—heroic mortals, reprehensible villains, fiends, even a god—and defeated them all. It's tempting to simply declare you victorious, but there's still one challenger so vile, so reprehensible, and so feared that ALL who encounter him flee in screaming irritation!
Enemies:
Noober - level 1, 7 HP
Noober does the one thing you fear him for - he initiates dialogue. His dialogue tree has over 300 states, and twice that many responses, in a complex branching system with random elements. The only way to escape ... is to play his game. A text adventure game.
The choice of enemies in the first two rounds is not really on the same level as the scripting; it all feels too deliberate.
First, there's no way the announcer lines are swapped. Those are fully voiced, and one of them mentions "your first challenge". That leaves the possibility of the enemies being swapped ... and all of the foes in these battles have a number in their creature codes. 1 for the first fight, 2 for the second, and so on. A creature "OHB1KELD" doesn't leave much room for interpretation on the intent.
Incidentally, Noober's dialogue is basically complete and functional. It's the largest conversation tree in the entire game, and there's only a couple errors to mar the experience - typos in the references pointing to nonexistent text entries.
[Added in edit] Well, OK, there are some bad triggers and responses linking to the wrong states, too. That dialogue tree definitely needed some cleanup.
The announcer also keeps calling the enemies familiar faces even though the Black Pits party never met any of them before. This is more meta than Undertale, he's literally talking to the player and he knows it.
That Dorn falls out with Ajantis even if he's wearing the Helm of Opposite Alignment. A shame really. I think that it would have been relatively easy to correcct that.
However if you play a Blackguard and wear the helmet there is no problem between you and Ajantis as the game only checks for your Alignment.
I think there's a good reason the Helm of Opposite Alignment only existed as an afterthought in Baldur's Gate 1 where party members did not have dialogue beyond a few lines (and most of them take place before joining).
Once NPCs have dialogue and banter there is a *lot* you would either need to rewrite a lot of them or disable it.
Dorn and Raasad are BG 2 style NPCs with banter and dialogue tracks, so it doesn't work with them well either.
My head-cannon for this item is "I'm still an evil Blackguard and still want to murder everybody, but something is compelling me not to". As in, it doesn't really change his way of thinking, but rather twists his actions into being good rather than evil.
Hey, ToB has bits of dialogue related to Korgan turning good. Anything can happen!
... Well, that's part of something that was never implemented. And it interacts badly with the Helm of Opposite Alignment, because there's no provision for Korgan turning lawful. If you stick the helm on him and drop him from the party, he no longer has a dialogue that offers a chance to rejoin.
On the subject of paladin alignments, Carsomyr and Purifier merely require that their wielder be non-evil. If you somehow managed to have a chaotic neutral paladin, they could wield those swords just fine. No race restrictions or relevant kit exclusion flags, either.
Hey, ToB has bits of dialogue related to Korgan turning good. Anything can happen!
... Well, that's part of something that was never implemented. And it interacts badly with the Helm of Opposite Alignment, because there's no provision for Korgan turning lawful. If you stick the helm on him and drop him from the party, he no longer has a dialogue that offers a chance to rejoin.
On the subject of paladin alignments, Carsomyr and Purifier merely require that their wielder be non-evil. If you somehow managed to have a chaotic neutral paladin, they could wield those swords just fine. No race restrictions or relevant kit exclusion flags, either.
There are mods around that allow those sorts of alignments if you serve a god that isn't good. Probably Divine Remix, Deities of Faerun or Faiths and Powers: I can't remember which.
Comments
Two mythical weapons from real life saga have made it into ToB.
Angurdaval:
Fabled sword from the icelandic saga about Frithiof.
Gram the grief:
Fabled sword of Siegfried/Sigurd - from norse / northern Europe legend.
Yeah, that was my first thought too, but now that they point it out, I'm not actually sure there were any mythological weapons in BG1 or Shadows of Amn.
Like, there are a lot of classic DnD Originals, but I don't recall ever swinging around Excalibur or anything. That might've been something new for Throne of Bhaal.
If you insert SetPrivateProfileString('Script','QAMODE','1') into the Baldur.lua file and then hit Ctrl+B while playing through Siege of Dragonspear (it won't work anywhere else) you get a special menu that pops up that lets you advance chapters among other things.
We used it a lot in QA testing because Siege of Dragonspear has a ton of variables at work. So it was a quick way of just testing out a specific chapter quest.
Now it may not be a 100% bug free experience. But if you are making mods in SoD it is useful at least.
Wow, there's a lot of room under her robe!
No wonder she couldn't fight Caelar's assassins. Those oils put her over ecumberance by themselves.
By the way, who will now fill her role in scripted events such as in the undead crypt or at the end of SoD? Biff the Understudy? Or will the game create a copy of her?
Game created a copy of her and has proceeded as if nothing happened. Seems to be the EE standard.
Joinable NPCs exist as "universal" actors in the game. They aren't placed in the map files, but instead tracked in BALDUR.gam and the version in the save files. When they're needed somewhere, the game moves them there rather than creating a new version.
Cutscene versions of characters often aren't the same as the joinable versions. Those are created for the cutscenes. For example, in BG2, the version of Imoen you meet in the starting dungeon is IMOEN10 and the version in the cutscene when you reach the surface is CSIMOEN. If you somehow managed to kill Imoen despite her immortality item, it wouldn't affect that cutscene.
So, apparently, SoD has a joinable-type Imoen for the starting dungeon and the finale, but a separate cutscene version for everything between.
You have done well, besting Dennaton, but that's no reason to stop the entertainment. I, Elgiad, have scoured the planes far and wide. I offer challenges far greater than Dennaton ever did, rare and ferocious creatures and gladiators of unmatched martial and arcane prowess. Join me!
First fight:
Enemies:
Rasaad - sun soul monk 13, 80 HP.
Keldorn - inquisitor 12, 118 HP.
Aerie - cleric 10/ mage 11, 42 HP.
Neera - mage 13, 43 HP.
Imoen - thief 7/mage 13, 109 HP.
All are identical to the versions summoned by the Fate Spirit, except that Imoen has 40 more HP and Rasaad has a different one of his quest's cloaks. All have dumb "attack nearest enemy scripts, so the three mages won't cast any spells.
Second fight:
Enemies:
Dorn - blackguard 12, 92 HP.
Phaere - cleric 20/mage 20, 142 HP.
Korgan - berserker 12, 138 HP.
Saemon Havarian - fighter 20/mage 20.
Baeloth - sorcerer 13, 100 HP.
Sarevok, Dorn, and Korgan are identical to the versions that can join you in ToB. Baeloth is at that level, though with more HP than should be possible. Phaere is a near-copy of Sendai, but with no combat script at all. Saemon is identical to his Amkethran version, including a lack of high-level spells memorized - but at least he knows how to cast something.
Aside from Phaere and Saemon, the other four have dumb "attack nearest enemy" scripts. No spells for Baeoth.
Third fight:
Enemies:
Bodhi - level 25, 200 HP.
Cornugon x3 - level 13, 80 HP each.
Vampire x3 - level 14, two with 110 HP and one with 140.
Irenicus is buffed beyond the level of any version you ever fight, with extra HP, innate resistances, and far more spells memorized than he should have slots at every level. And then he gets no combat script whatsoever. Bodhi and the vampires are dumb attackers, but they have good stats and they drain 5 levels per hit. The cornugons, amazingly, actually know how to use their abilities.
Fourth fight:
Enemies:
Melissan is identical to the version you fight at the Throne. Except that all her scripts have been removed, so she just stands there and takes your hits. Forever. Because she has her immortality item, and no script to remove it.
Or, at least, that's what would happen if the developers hadn't had the foresight to make her turn neutral immediately. With no enemies present, you immediately win the "battle".
Fifth fight:
Enemies:
Bhaal looks like Sarevok and fights like Demogorgon. Except he has 200 more HP, two points better THAC0, and two points better AC.
Sixth fight:
Enemies:
Noober does the one thing you fear him for - he initiates dialogue. His dialogue tree has over 300 states, and twice that many responses, in a complex branching system with random elements. The only way to escape ... is to play his game. A text adventure game.
Dunno, they could have been flipped as a joke.
Possibly, but the rest is played straight. Noober maybe becomes close, but it's still clearly Noober.
First, there's no way the announcer lines are swapped. Those are fully voiced, and one of them mentions "your first challenge". That leaves the possibility of the enemies being swapped ... and all of the foes in these battles have a number in their creature codes. 1 for the first fight, 2 for the second, and so on. A creature "OHB1KELD" doesn't leave much room for interpretation on the intent.
Incidentally, Noober's dialogue is basically complete and functional. It's the largest conversation tree in the entire game, and there's only a couple errors to mar the experience - typos in the references pointing to nonexistent text entries.
[Added in edit] Well, OK, there are some bad triggers and responses linking to the wrong states, too. That dialogue tree definitely needed some cleanup.
However if you play a Blackguard and wear the helmet there is no problem between you and Ajantis as the game only checks for your Alignment.
Once NPCs have dialogue and banter there is a *lot* you would either need to rewrite a lot of them or disable it.
Dorn and Raasad are BG 2 style NPCs with banter and dialogue tracks, so it doesn't work with them well either.
... Well, that's part of something that was never implemented. And it interacts badly with the Helm of Opposite Alignment, because there's no provision for Korgan turning lawful. If you stick the helm on him and drop him from the party, he no longer has a dialogue that offers a chance to rejoin.
On the subject of paladin alignments, Carsomyr and Purifier merely require that their wielder be non-evil. If you somehow managed to have a chaotic neutral paladin, they could wield those swords just fine. No race restrictions or relevant kit exclusion flags, either.
There are mods around that allow those sorts of alignments if you serve a god that isn't good. Probably Divine Remix, Deities of Faerun or Faiths and Powers: I can't remember which.