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What are the best worst NPC mods?

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  • SapphireIce101SapphireIce101 Member Posts: 866
    First and foremost, the Forgotten Realms setting can't be compared to any real life era. Its just implausible to do so with all the magic and other things floating about in the setting.

    Secondly, Saerileth has major problems. She is definitely one of the worst mod added NPCs. However, her age isn't one of those things, because in the Forgotten Realms setting, if you haven't learned how to use a sword by the age of fifteen, you're one of four things. A mage learning magic in the academy. A sorcerer that just had their powers 'awakened'. A farmer. This one is the worst one, but its the last one, you're basically dead.

    Now, Saerileth's issues. One, the whole chosen of Tyr thing. I find that one really illogical, especially given her age. Two, dying of a broken heart. Again, its illogical, nobody can die of a broken heart, and I'm going to guess that Tyr frowns upon suicide, since there is no real justice in offing yourself. Lastly, If you're a thief and you want the thieves guild? Yeah, no, Saerileth says no.
    ArchaosjacobtanNecomancerUnionhack
  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,164


    its illogical, nobody can die of a broken heart

    You clearly have not listened to enough Country music or Bon Jovi.
    ElrandirSmilingSwordArtonaSharGuidesMyHand
  • NonnahswriterNonnahswriter Member Posts: 2,520


    its illogical, nobody can die of a broken heart

    You clearly have not listened to enough Country music or Bon Jovi.
    In the case of country music, I'm sure they'd sooner die of alcohol poisoning than a literal broken heart.

    But I do see your point.
    CrevsDaak
  • jacobtanjacobtan Member Posts: 655


    its illogical, nobody can die of a broken heart

    You clearly have not listened to enough Country music or Bon Jovi.
    In the case of country music, I'm sure they'd sooner die of alcohol poisoning than a literal broken heart.

    But I do see your point.
    Considering the heart is a muscle, I wonder how it can literally break, like a glass.
    CrevsDaak
  • SapphireIce101SapphireIce101 Member Posts: 866


    its illogical, nobody can die of a broken heart

    You clearly have not listened to enough Country music or Bon Jovi.
    Well, I was kind of raised on Country music and Bon Jovi. They use a bunch of literary devices to get you to feel emotions. Metaphors, similes, hyperboles, etc. Just because a song says you can die of a broken heart, doesn't necessarily mean that its possible.

    Now, to point out the obvious, your heart has nothing to do with your emotions. Emotions and everything that goes with them is really something that the brain controls, as well as everything else in your body. So at best, Saerileth is basically having a chemical overload in her brain when it comes to her 'dying of a broken heart', and the fact that she's a pubescent teenager.
  • SjerrieSjerrie Member Posts: 1,234
    edited March 2014

    Now, to point out the obvious, your heart has nothing to do with your emotions. Emotions and everything that goes with them is really something that the brain controls, as well as everything else in your body. So at best, Saerileth is basically having a chemical overload in her brain when it comes to her 'dying of a broken heart', and the fact that she's a pubescent teenager.

    Exactly, the brain controls emotions, but those emotions can have a very real effect on the heart. Considering the dying of emotional heartbreak is used as a literary device with our 15-year-old-paladin, it makes it look super cheesy. But there is indeed a scientific basis for dying of fright, and to a lesser extent, "heartbreak":
    >


    So yeah, if she'd be susceptible to death-by-heartbreak she'd probably have died of fear when fighting her first frikkin' *demon*.

    @booinyoureyes I had a similar experience with Chloe as you did. And she's supposedly a full daughter of Akadi (elemental (?) goddess of air) and a mortal human, but 25 DEX? That's more than a generic air elemental has...
    booinyoureyes
  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,164


    its illogical, nobody can die of a broken heart

    You clearly have not listened to enough Country music or Bon Jovi.
    Well, I was kind of raised on Country music and Bon Jovi. They use a bunch of literary devices to get you to feel emotions. Metaphors, similes, hyperboles, etc. Just because a song says you can die of a broken heart, doesn't necessarily mean that its possible.
    I was actually being totally sarcastic!
  • jacobtanjacobtan Member Posts: 655
    Sjerrie said:

    Now, to point out the obvious, your heart has nothing to do with your emotions. Emotions and everything that goes with them is really something that the brain controls, as well as everything else in your body. So at best, Saerileth is basically having a chemical overload in her brain when it comes to her 'dying of a broken heart', and the fact that she's a pubescent teenager.

    Exactly, the brain controls emotions, but those emotions can have a very real effect on the heart. Considering the dying of emotional heartbreak is used as a literary device with our 15-year-old-paladin, it makes it look super cheesy. But there is indeed a scientific basis for dying of fright, and to a lesser extent, "heartbreak":
    >


    So yeah, if she'd be susceptible to death-by-heartbreak she'd probably have died of fear when fighting her first frikkin' *demon*.

    @booinyoureyes I had a similar experience with Chloe as you did. And she's supposedly a full daughter of Akadi (elemental (?) goddess of air) and a mortal human, but 25 DEX? That's more than a generic air elemental has...
    Eh... According to Faiths and Avatars, Akadi's avatar has only 24 Dex. Chloe's dexterity is even higher than her mother's...
    CrevsDaakSjerrie
  • SapphireIce101SapphireIce101 Member Posts: 866
    @booinyoureyes‌ - Oh. I didn't pick up on the sarcasm. Blargh. D:

    @Sjerrie‌ - Yes, emotions do have an effect on the heart. I've actually learned something today. The medical terminology for what we're talking about is Takotsubo cardiomyopathy aka Broken Heart Syndrome. It only happens when someone is under emotional distress, such as a loved one dying, breaking up with someone, or having lots of anxiety. Broken Heart Syndrome some of the time is confused with a MI, aka a heart attack.

    Now, after doing some of that research, it isn't illogical for Saerileth to die from Broken Heart Syndrome. However, from her to die that fast from it. Yeah, she has to be producing a lot of chemicals for that.

    As for Chloe, I haven't played a lot of her mod, it just doesn't interest me that much.

    booinyoureyesSjerrie
  • NecomancerNecomancer Member Posts: 622
    Having Saerileth die of a broken heart just seems like the writer trying to make you feel guilty for hurting her and failing miserably by going so overboard that you lose your sense of immersion and instead of thinking what just happened is horribly tragic you think "What kind of idiot wrote this."
    booinyoureyesCrevsDaakArchaos
  • LoubLoub Member Posts: 471
    Come on, be of good cheer, you won't get very far in the quest of overcoming the world by wallowing on the ordure left behind by gluttonous egotists.

    Honestly, I'm getting a bit sick of reading things posted countless times before on Sorcerers, G3, GameFAQS and the like, 'tis almost as if the transient of these lands cannot overcome their innermost passions, even if those are nothing special.

    Let's face it: Saerileth sucks, no matter what. All that could have been said of her shortcomings already has been spoken countless times in the past, your own opinions won't change that.

    Why do we not switch to something better and lighter for a change? Like all the wonderful mods such as Angelo, Branwen and Coran - Truly, the discussion of disgraces is incredibly unoriginal, even if candid - A transient won't get very far in their path to transcendence by resurfacing old ideas - originality is what lasts, no matter how unpopular or superfluous these notions may seem.
  • Glam_VrockGlam_Vrock Member Posts: 277
    Loub said:

    Why do we not switch to something better and lighter for a change? Like all the wonderful mods such as Angelo, Branwen and Coran

    Probably because the thread topic is "best worst NPC mods"? If you want a thread about good NPC mods, cool. Go make one. I look forward to reading it.

    CrevsDaakSapphireIce101Necomancer
  • SjerrieSjerrie Member Posts: 1,234
    Now that I'm spending more time with the games again I would also welcome the positives and try some good NPCs. One of my goals this year is to at least start with making a mod of my own, and seeing how other people handled situations can be very educational. That goes both ways however, and a bad NPC example is still an example of how *not* to do things.
  • ArchaosArchaos Member Posts: 1,421
    edited March 2014
    @Rhaella‌
    I was using the term VERY loosely.

    You can't really put the Forgotten Realms into some era, that I agree.
    But the whole generic thing of "knights and wizards fighting dragons" etc is based on medieval legends and Lord of the Rings. (Gandalf was based or influenced by Merlin)

    The Realms have Lantan which is steampunky almost with flying airships. Mulhorand which is basically ancient Egypt. Chessenta is like ancient Greece. Kara-Tur is based on ancient China and feudal Japan etc.

    From ancient times to very recently and even today, a person of 16 years is not considered a child. And as you pointed out, in Calimshan the age of majority is 15 years.
    For example slavery there is totally legal. And women are considered of lesser status.

    So people saying saying "omg 15 years old?! That's so creepy". It's not in the Realms. It's not modern day.

    Yes, I disagree that putting a character in there that is that old is surely controversial by modern day standards and weird but still believable.
    A 15 year old should not be immune to romance. Especially by a 20 year old (CHARNAME).

    What is not believable and more insulting to me, is she's a parody of Juliet. And that a Paladin can die from a freaking heartbreak so easily.

    It's like having a Solar being poked in the eye and crying. It's just stupid and makes you facepalm.
    Sjerriebooinyoureyes
  • jacobtanjacobtan Member Posts: 655
    Archaos said:

    @Rhaella‌
    I was using the term VERY loosely.

    You can't really put the Forgotten Realms into some era, that I agree.
    But the whole generic thing of "knights and wizards fighting dragons" etc is based on medieval legends and Lord of the Rings. (Gandalf was based or influenced by Merlin)

    The Realms have Lantan which is steampunky almost with flying airships. Mulhorand which is basically ancient Egypt. Chessenta is like ancient Greece. Kara-Tur is based on ancient China and feudal Japan etc.

    From ancient times to very recently and even today, a person of 16 years is not considered a child. And as you pointed out, in Calimshan the age of majority is 15 years.
    For example slavery there is totally legal.

    So people saying saying "omg 15 years old?! That's so creepy". It's not in the Realms. It's not modern day.

    Yes, I disagree that putting a character in there that is that old is surely controversial by modern day standards and weird but still believable.
    A 15 year old should not be immune to romance. Especially by a 20 year old (CHARNAME).

    What is not believable and more insulting to me, is she's a parody of Juliet. And that a Paladin can die from a freaking heartbreak so easily.

    It's like having a Solar being poked in the eye and crying. It's just stupid and makes you facepalm.

    Actually, as a DM, you can exercise discretion on what setting you want your characters to be in. e.g. if your setting is not a renaissance setting, you may not want to include equipment like arquebuses or caravels.

    I'd think a bigger problem here is "why introduce something controversial and distract players from the merits of this mod?"
  • SjerrieSjerrie Member Posts: 1,234
    @Archaos @jacobtan the fact that the age of the character is mentioned so often is what makes it creepy and controversial. What other mod does that? It is completely irrelevant to the story and it might make it more believable if it were left out completely.
    jacobtanArchaosbooinyoureyes
  • jacobtanjacobtan Member Posts: 655
    @Sjerrie‌ Maybe Tyr was a pedophile, that's why he was blinded like Peeping Tom.
    booinyoureyes
  • SjerrieSjerrie Member Posts: 1,234
    edited March 2014
    Lol @jacobtan blasphemy! I'd lay the blame with the writers for trying too hard to make her like Juliet...
    Archaosbooinyoureyes
  • ArchaosArchaos Member Posts: 1,421
    @jacobtan‌

    I know it was a joke but Tyr was blinded by Ao for talking back to him, just before the Time of Troubles. ;)

    Tyr sucks anyway, Torm FTW.
  • jacobtanjacobtan Member Posts: 655
    Sjerrie said:

    Lol @jacobtan blasphemy! I'd lay the blame with the writers for trying too hard to make her like Juliet...

    We should be thankful that the writers did not turn the mod into a "Leather Goddess of Phobos" type of story ;)
    SjerrieCrevsDaak
  • SjerrieSjerrie Member Posts: 1,234
    edited March 2014
    Just found this one while actually looking for Silver Star:
    Name: Aeon
    Race: Human
    Class: Abjurer/Thief (dual-classed)
    Character: Chaotic Good

    Biography:
    When asked about past, AEON says that he was brought up in Silverymoon. He read many tomes and studied magic, yet he wished to become a bard. When he met his friend - Eto. Eto showed him how to hide, open locks and find traps. Aeon realized that with those skills, maybe he will be able to visit the place from his dreams - Myth Drannor. There he found the Moonblade which accepted him. It was coincidence that your road and his road crossed.
    The combination of 'human' and 'moonblade' is what got my attention but immediately just screamed NO at me. Then I read the bio and it became more like "NOOoooo... :( "

    Edit: I shall however refrain from judging any more until tried.
    Necomancer
  • SapphireIce101SapphireIce101 Member Posts: 866
    edited March 2014
    I tried Aeon once, he wasn't bad.

    Also, considering that a human Silverstar of Selune in IWD2 can wield a Moonblade, and then if you can convince her, then your party can have the Moonblade, and you're probably going to have humans that can use the thing in the party. So, I don't think humans being able to use moonblades is a bad thing necessarily.
    Necomancer
  • SjerrieSjerrie Member Posts: 1,234
    @SapphireIce101, are you not confusing the *spell* moonblade with the, according to canon, hereditary elven family swords that need to find you worthy or they kill you?
  • NecomancerNecomancer Member Posts: 622
    @Sjerrie Shes right, you do get a useable moonblade in IWD2. The actual weapon.
  • SapphireIce101SapphireIce101 Member Posts: 866
    @Sjerrie‌ - Nope, there really is a Human Silverstar of Selune in IWD2 that has a moonblade. In fact, a troll steals it from her, and she requests that the party get it back for her, and the party has a chance to convince her to give it to them. I think there's a difference though, seeing as its a Moonblade of Selune.

    http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Selune
    Operating mainly in the north, especially Icewind Dale, these priests and priestesses were dedicated to protecting the vulnerable. Gifted Silverstars were normally gifted with a Moonblade, which had special properties to harm those who are evil.


    SjerrieNecomancerNonnahswriter
  • SjerrieSjerrie Member Posts: 1,234

    http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Selune
    Operating mainly in the north, especially Icewind Dale, these priests and priestesses were dedicated to protecting the vulnerable. Gifted Silverstars were normally gifted with a Moonblade, which had special properties to harm those who are evil.

    Thanks, it's been a while since I've played IWD2. But going by this the Silverstars' moonblades are different from the elven hereditary ones. And in the mod they obviously mean the elven ones. Irks me a bit. lol
  • jacobtanjacobtan Member Posts: 655
    edited March 2014
    Selune is the goddess of the moon, so allowing her followers to use weapons made of "moonstuff" is not inconceivable, or it may simply be a corporeal form of the moonblade spell.

    But there is another type of moonblade, the type that is bound to one person in a family line, and which kills unworthy wielders. This is the elven moonblade. We know some of them: the king sword of Evermeet, Arilyn Moonblade's moonblade, and Elaith Craulnober's moonblade.

    IMO these are both called moonblades but are actually two very different things
    Sjerrie
  • SjerrieSjerrie Member Posts: 1,234
    @jacobtan indeed. Arilyn Moonblade is the only non full-blooded elf wielding one iirc. The idea of a human wielding one reeks of Mary Sue.

    I'm going to try it anyway though, when I have the time, maybe there's a somewhat plausible explanation in there somewhere.
  • jacobtanjacobtan Member Posts: 655
    Sjerrie said:

    @jacobtan indeed. Arilyn Moonblade is the only non full-blooded elf wielding one iirc. The idea of a human wielding one reeks of Mary Sue.

    I'm going to try it anyway though, when I have the time, maybe there's a somewhat plausible explanation in there somewhere.

    I simply assume the "moonblade" referred to in IWD2 is a corporeal form of the Moonblade spell, that is granted as a blessing to her followers, and which is different from the elven moonblades.

    As an aside, the elven moonblades choose their owners, so only one person in a family line can wield it. Otherwise, he'll be killed or if he's the last of his line the moon blade goes dormant and probably loses its powers. This surely doesn't sound like the moonblade in IWD2.
    SjerrieSapphireIce101
  • SapphireIce101SapphireIce101 Member Posts: 866
    Yeah, I figured there was a difference, and I've only played some of Aeon's stuff once. I just don't find the NPC mod to be god awful like people say Saerileth, or Chloe is.
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