I made it to see what people like to see in mod NPCs (or just regular NPCs), and what kind of thing just turns them off completely. A lot of what was said here was also discussed in the thread I made, and I feel like the people who have contributed here would also like to contribute to my discussion.
Just a note: I'd rather not spend time on that thread just bashing bad NPC mods, though pointing out what you didn't like about, lets just say 'randomly', Saerilith or something, would be welcome. I'd just rather not have that discussion, which I plan to return to, become a discussion dissing bad NPC mods. I'm sure the creators worked very hard on their mods, and these things are subjective. And besides, this is already the perfect place to do that!
On topic: I played Saerilith's Gate: Shadows of Saerilith for a bit, and the criticism that she took over the game is pretty damn accurate. I have not tried Chloe for too long, but she was so bothersome in the first two minutes that I just couldn't continue. I have not tried Tsujatha, but from what I've heard he seems to tick all the wrong boxes in the list of "bad NPC mod" criteria.
To be honest, most NPC mods are not to my liking. This may simply be because of taste, or it may simply be because writers make what *they* like. The problem with that mentallity is that the characters seem to have their own story within Baldur's Gate, rather than meshing in with the existing cast and the struggles of CHARNAME and his companions.
So pretty much any character that is too in love with him/herself and their story will be poorly received, and can make for some campy, horrible glory.
Also: Bad voicing goes a loooooong way toward making the perfect ham for your "so bad its good" Baldur's Gate run!
So, I'd say your B Movie-style C-list cast would so far be: Chloe Tsujatha Paladin Jailbait
So for two more: 1. Tortured Souls (an otherwise pretty neat mod) adds Sime (from the Shadow Thieves) as a Cleric/Ranger npc. Now... the mod is good, but Sime is just too much -Bad voice acting. Like unbearable -Overpowered Items. I LIKE NPC unique items. I don't like 9 of them, each that give +3 AC bonus with reduced casting time and set your Charisma to infinity so that we can realize how awesome and alluring your character is -A biography for the character that basically says "this character is awesome. You HAVE to love her. This is not optional" -Reese Witherspoon elven Native American portrait. lolwut?
2. You can also add the NPC "Banana!". Not because he is bad or poorly written (he's awesome) but because he is a banana. An actual banana. Which is cool, but also kinda goofy. I feel like this guy would be the "straight man character" in the party http://forums.gibberlings3.net/index.php?showtopic=12947
I am actually surprised that despite the Saeri/Tsu hate here, not a single word has been raised upon the authors' other outlier, Yasraena. Now granted she is not overly domineering compared to the main two offenders, but I was still frustrated with many aspects of that mod.
1. Horrible character placement. Very end of Irenicus' Dungeon for no reason at all (think this was explained but I don't remember). Wouldn't normally be a problem but with this set of NPCs, if you don't recruit them then and there they leave FOREVER.
2. Character inconsistencies. She was CG I believe, but there were so many cases where I get a whiff of neutral and sometimes borderline evil comments from her. I can excuse some of her behavior as drow upbringing, but I have a limit.
3. Pretty darned overpowered. I actually still remember the argument thread at CoM discussion forums regarding how she has higher strength than MINSC, and that's not to mention her innate MR.
4. Really poor delivery of dialogue. Holy hell there is so much delivered in parentheses. It is unbearable.
5. Voicing was recorded really loudly and low quality. The acting wasn't overly bad but she was way too loud, and I'm not turning down my volume solely because she exists.
6. Bugs galore. Her first quest can break horribly and make it impossible to re-recruit her without console, and her swords are for whatever reason sellable and can be exploited to duplicate.
I still think Xan and Angelo are tops in terms of immersive NPC mods. Xan is massively content heavy but I'm ok with that as long as it is reasonable (which it is, no ridiculous items/XP gains and quests are in line with vanilla content) and Angelo is just hilarious. I'm waiting eagerly for Valerie BG2. Haven't finished a game with Isra either but she's fun to have.
@booinyoureyes Not sure if I'm the only one who does this, but when I take on mod NPCs, I will often write a few paragraphs (around 1-2 pages) that describe interactions between the NPC and me (PC) or the rest of the party. I'll try to flesh out the NPC based on his background, in-game dialogue, and basically, try to make the NPC more believable to me. Sometimes, the mod creators have good ideas, but it doesn't translate well because of crackpot ideas, bad writing, or both.
Generally, I've never met a romance NPC that's not horny/desperate/lewd. Reading the dialog.tlk file after installation is like reading soft porn that's so bad it's funny.
This is part of the reason why I cannot tolerate more than one mod/custom NPC in my party (except for Imoen - I always mod her into another type of thief/mage that is more to my liking... I'm annoyed that I took her with my BG party and she was dual-classed in BG2 without my permission!). There will be too much stuff to write if I run too many custom/mod NPCs. LOL
@jacobtan I agree entirely with the romance NPCs. Going back to Xan and Angelo (apologies for this), they are the only romances I can stand for females because they feel like the few romances where the male NPC isn't* after the PC's *****. Xan's romance simply doesn't work if your PC isn't elven, which although limiting options fits perfectly with his character. It's more than just dramatic romance and s*x, there's a ton of depth to it and the tragic endings are spot on. Even as a male (and straight) Xan's
response to the Bodhi abduction hit all the right places
and actually encouraged me to keep playing despite not being happy with the PC I was using.
Angelo's romance is lighter on content but no less realistic. Even if the mod and the BG1 Angelo have no semblance whatsoever I prefer the mod version by miles (in fact I changed the BG1 Angelo.cre a bit to make it more consistent with the mod). It had exactly the right combination of drama, tragedy and humor to make me want to play the whole thing through, and the ending, I'll admit, made me go d'aww. Even the epilogue made me quiver a little.
With most other female PC romances I just get flat out bored.
*although in some cases this can still make a good story, in the case of Gavin, since there's more to the romance than what you see.
I am actually surprised that despite the Saeri/Tsu hate here, not a single word has been raised upon the authors' other outlier, Yasraena. Now granted she is not overly domineering compared to the main two offenders, but I was still frustrated with many aspects of that mod.
...
6. Bugs galore. Her first quest can break horribly and make it impossible to re-recruit her without console, and her swords are for whatever reason sellable and can be exploited to duplicate.
7. Her crimson eyes shine in the crimson of her crimson eyes as her crimson eyes darken to a slightly deeper shade of crimson, because eyes are literally mood rings and this is the only way we could think of to convey emotion THROUGHOUT THREE MODS
I am actually surprised that despite the Saeri/Tsu hate here, not a single word has been raised upon the authors' other outlier, Yasraena. Now granted she is not overly domineering compared to the main two offenders, but I was still frustrated with many aspects of that mod.
...
6. Bugs galore. Her first quest can break horribly and make it impossible to re-recruit her without console, and her swords are for whatever reason sellable and can be exploited to duplicate.
7. Her crimson eyes shine in the crimson of her crimson eyes as her crimson eyes darken to a slightly deeper shade of crimson, because eyes are literally mood rings and this is the only way we could think of to convey emotion THROUGHOUT THREE MODS
My crimson face now turns into a deeper shade of crimson as I try to suppress my mirth, and it is darkening into an even deeper shade of crimson as I start to guffaw, then finally my whole face is convulsing with laughter and in such a deep shade of crimson as never seen before...
The only thing that makes me sad is there would be no cross mod content for this sort of play through. The bickering between these NPCs would be hilarious.
The only thing that makes me sad is there would be no cross mod content for this sort of play through. The bickering between these NPCs would be hilarious.
There is a crossmod banter pack out there, but I'm not exactly sure who it includes. I imagine this would result in something along the lines of Gossip Girls Saerilith: "Oh Em Geez, Tsujatha, can thoust imagine mine pain" Tsujatha: "Yes. It is like this big black hole inside of my heart" *stares blankly into the night* Saerilith: "Thou art the only one who understandeth mine inner turmoil" Tsujatha: *pushes emo-style hair out of his eyes* "Life is pain. Man I am so sexy"
The crossmod pack includes Saerileth and Tsujatha. I checked it out just now and SURPRISE SURPRISE the first thing I see is "Tsujatha's silver eyes flash."
The crossmod pack includes Saerileth and Tsujatha. I checked it out just now and SURPRISE SURPRISE the first thing I see is "Tsujatha's silver eyes flash."
So you are saying if we were to make a Baldur's Gate movie we'd cast Kristen Stewart as Saerileth and Robert Pattinson as Tsujatha?
In fairness to the Saerileth mod, there's a TON of dialogue. But... it's too flowery by half. And the audio is painful to listen to. Also, it was hard to ignore the "she's 14" thing.
Not sure if ranger Sarah is available for EE, but that was a solid NPC. Great music score as I recall. Didn't like the portrait, but that's easily fixed.
In fairness to the Saerileth mod, there's a TON of dialogue. But... it's too flowery by half. And the audio is painful to listen to. Also, it was hard to ignore the "she's 14" thing.
Not sure if ranger Sarah is available for EE, but that was a solid NPC. Great music score as I recall. Didn't like the portrait, but that's easily fixed.
It doesn't matter if it's a pound of c**p or a ton of c**p. It is still c**p...
Since nobody actually knows what Mount Celestian culture is like, no one can verify if Mount Celestians actually DO speak the way Saerileth does...
Not being a fan (haven't even installed it) of the mod but from what I read, the creator (female) was going for a Juliet-like character.
1. She's very young. Juliet in (Romeo & Juliet) was 13. 2. She falls in love very easy. Romeo's and Juliet's romance lasted for THREE DAYS. 3. She dies from broken heart. Though Juliet kills herself by stabbing herself? Not sure.
For one, I would prefer if Saerileth was more like Joan of Arc than Juliet. A young holy warrior that is believably innocent yet very brave, courageous, noble and kind. And it would make it more believable if she came from a peasant or simple background than literally the Heavens.
I personally don't have as much of a problem with her being 15. (Juliet was 13). I facepalm at people that cannot tell the difference between a child and a teen. "15-16 years old?! OMFG you pedo! 18 years old? Whatever, have her raped or a being a dominatrix, it's cool."
But I find it pointless. There really is no point in making her 15 years old except to say "she's VERY very innocent".
Imoen is innocent too in BG1 and Alora is also very child-like and innocent as well. Making her 18 but really inexperienced and innocent would solve most problems.
I used Saerileth once. (Wait, that sounds dirty...) The age thing disturbed me only to the point that a 15-year-old was already a full-fledged paladin (of Tyr iirc) and that her age was mentioned or made apparent so damn often. Charname isn't that much older though: 19 or something (or, 11!! if you take the timeline really strict). While the writer may have meant for it be be a Romeo-and-Juliet-like story, the cheesiness was just way too much. Dying of heartbreak while crying blood...
I also tried the Imoen romance, which you could see as incestuous if you look too far into it, but couldn't get it to work properly back in the day.
Haven't actually used him, but Murneth always seemed a bit off to me. His race (an intelligent ooze) is basically decided by his kit, and while I realize that might be necessary for custom races, I don't really like that concept..
Haven't used a lot of other NPCs, though that will definitely change.
I facepalm at people that cannot tell the difference between a child and a teen. "15-16 years old?! OMFG you pedo! 18 years old? Whatever, have her raped or a being a dominatrix, it's cool."
But I find it pointless. There really is no point in making her 15 years old except to say "she's VERY very innocent".
This is exactly why people have a problem with it. The character does not need to be 15. We don't need to know how old she is at all, but the very first thing her webpage says is "She's 15." For some reason the modders really want you to know that you're sleeping with an underage girl and it's creepy.
That's the thing. I don't have a problem with her being 15. Juliet was 13 as I said and it's considered a classic and timeless romance story.
Just 50 or 100 years ago people were getting married, had sex and even children at around that age in Europe and America. I believe my grandmother got married at age 16. Not just "had a romance". Many teenagers are having sex around the age of 14-16 nowadays and not necessarily with people their age (for example: prostitutes).
My point? I dislike hypocritical (speaking in general) political-correctness that thinks that people magically become adults at age 18, while at age 15-16 they're considered fragile and innocent children. (Just remember your own teens and tell me how innocent or fragile you were.)
About Saerileth, I just consider her age a totally pointless information. It's like telling me "she has a missing tooth". It serves no purpose at all, it's useless information that nonetheless is controversial.
Nevermind that her class and stats make no sense for her. She's a warrior, hardened by battle, chosen by a god, she's somewhat wise and charismatic, yet she's so immature and dies from broken heart?
She should have been a Bard instead with low Wisdom. Her idealism and overdramatic end suits much more to her.
Many teenagers are having sex around the age of 14-16 nowadays and not necessarily with people their age
I'm gonna go ahead and ask if you think it's okay for a man in, say, his thirties to sleep with a 14 year old. Because your answer will determine whether I should pursue this line of discussion or just start banging my head on things.
1. It makes no difference. It's still a work of fiction. Shakespeare is just more famous and much better writer. 2. Baldur's Gate is set in the Forgotten Realms which is loosely medieval fantasy. Not modern day.
Bringing modern-day morals in that setting is meaningless.
And no, it's not okay for a 30 year old man to sleep with a 14 year old. Though CHARNAME is about 20 years-old, no matter his/her race.
Also, let's not compare a 15 year old in the Forgotten Realms with a modern day teen. Saerileth is a holy warrior that is trained for combat. You know, to shove her sword into the evil's stomach. Joan of Arc was already an experienced warrior at her age. Yet people think that a romance with her is creepy?
Also Daenerys Targaryen from Game of Thrones (maybe in the books too) is 16 in the first season. And you know what happens to her early on if you are watching the series.
Personally, I firmly believe that a 16 year old is an adult, psychologically and biologically, scientifically speaking. It's debatable from person to person but in general, there aren't many differences if at all between a person of 16 years and 18 years of age. Only legal ones.
We once had a conversation with an ex-girlfriend of mine that was around 25 if I remember right and me being 20. I'm now 25. She told me that a 16 year old is already a woman.
So that's another person's and a woman's perspective for me. Not just my opinion.
And no, it's not okay for a man to sleep with a 14 year old. Though CHARNAME is about 20 years-old, no matter his/her race.
What about the player?
See, this is what you aren't getting. This is not a book. It's a character inserted into a game for people to interact with. You can get your mack on with her and make her wear a skimpy outfit whenever you want. And it has no bearing on the narrative. It's just there for you to do.
It's a fantasy designed to titillate. And throughout all this, the modders want you the player; not Charname, the PLAYER; to know that she is a 15 year old girl. Not because it's important to the character. Not because it's relevant in any way at all. They just thought you'd like to know that as you stare at her bikini portrait.
2. Baldur's Gate is set in the Forgotten Realms which is loosely medieval fantasy. Not modern day.
Bringing modern-day morals in that setting is meaningless.
Okay. This really bugs me. Its not pointless to bring modern day morals into this setting because *they are already there*. Look how women are treated, look at how often popular heros have a more modern, or at least very different then the times, outlook on things. Yes, they pick and choose said morals but that doesn't mean they aren't there and it does not make the argument pointless. Can you name me an actual time, in the forgotten realms setting, an actual event, that involved a girl of 15 years old being wedded and bedded by a much older man? That sort of thing happened quite often in medieval times, but its not something we want repeated in our games so its simply not there. Its not there for the same reason female adventurers aren't constantly looked down upon for acting outside their gender's social norms for the time. Its too controversial and many people don't want that in their setting. There might be exceptions here or there in various books and source material, but I imagine its insignificant compared to how often such issues never happen even when they should happen very often.
Yeah. I really dislike it when people call it medieval, because it's definitely post-Enlightenment at the very earliest. Very little about it is medieval except for knights and castles, and those didn't just disappear immediately anyway. Pre-Industrial encompasses a lot. If there's one hallmark of the Middle Ages, it's the religious hegemony, and Forgotten Realms has the *opposite* of that. More like free for all paganism.
That said, all the sourcebooks indicate that people do reach adulthood earlier in Faerun. 15 is the age of majority at least in Calimshan, and they're supposed to be married by 20 (presumably to another teenager) or they're a disgrace. (See Races of Faerun.) Other places probably aren't quite so awful, but by the books, 15 is effectively an adult in some human societies.
Of course, the Saerileth mod intentionally presents it as something scandalous and implies that people are looking at the PC askance for being with someone so young, so they seem to be consciously going for the forbidden angle.
Comments
If anyone is looking to see what some posters here like in mod NPCs, or are just trying to avoid making a bad NPC mod, you can check out this discussion here:
http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/30372/the-making-of-a-good-mod-npc/p1
I made it to see what people like to see in mod NPCs (or just regular NPCs), and what kind of thing just turns them off completely. A lot of what was said here was also discussed in the thread I made, and I feel like the people who have contributed here would also like to contribute to my discussion.
Just a note: I'd rather not spend time on that thread just bashing bad NPC mods, though pointing out what you didn't like about, lets just say 'randomly', Saerilith or something, would be welcome. I'd just rather not have that discussion, which I plan to return to, become a discussion dissing bad NPC mods. I'm sure the creators worked very hard on their mods, and these things are subjective. And besides, this is already the perfect place to do that!
To be honest, most NPC mods are not to my liking. This may simply be because of taste, or it may simply be because writers make what *they* like. The problem with that mentallity is that the characters seem to have their own story within Baldur's Gate, rather than meshing in with the existing cast and the struggles of CHARNAME and his companions.
So pretty much any character that is too in love with him/herself and their story will be poorly received, and can make for some campy, horrible glory.
Also: Bad voicing goes a loooooong way toward making the perfect ham for your "so bad its good" Baldur's Gate run!
So, I'd say your B Movie-style C-list cast would so far be:
Chloe
Tsujatha
Paladin Jailbait
So for two more:
1. Tortured Souls (an otherwise pretty neat mod) adds Sime (from the Shadow Thieves) as a Cleric/Ranger npc. Now... the mod is good, but Sime is just too much
-Bad voice acting. Like unbearable
-Overpowered Items. I LIKE NPC unique items. I don't like 9 of them, each that give +3 AC bonus with reduced casting time and set your Charisma to infinity so that we can realize how awesome and alluring your character is
-A biography for the character that basically says "this character is awesome. You HAVE to love her. This is not optional"
-Reese Witherspoon elven Native American portrait. lolwut?
2. You can also add the NPC "Banana!".
Not because he is bad or poorly written (he's awesome) but because he is a banana. An actual banana. Which is cool, but also kinda goofy. I feel like this guy would be the "straight man character" in the party http://forums.gibberlings3.net/index.php?showtopic=12947
1. Horrible character placement. Very end of Irenicus' Dungeon for no reason at all (think this was explained but I don't remember). Wouldn't normally be a problem but with this set of NPCs, if you don't recruit them then and there they leave FOREVER.
2. Character inconsistencies. She was CG I believe, but there were so many cases where I get a whiff of neutral and sometimes borderline evil comments from her. I can excuse some of her behavior as drow upbringing, but I have a limit.
3. Pretty darned overpowered. I actually still remember the argument thread at CoM discussion forums regarding how she has higher strength than MINSC, and that's not to mention her innate MR.
4. Really poor delivery of dialogue. Holy hell there is so much delivered in parentheses. It is unbearable.
5. Voicing was recorded really loudly and low quality. The acting wasn't overly bad but she was way too loud, and I'm not turning down my volume solely because she exists.
6. Bugs galore. Her first quest can break horribly and make it impossible to re-recruit her without console, and her swords are for whatever reason sellable and can be exploited to duplicate.
I still think Xan and Angelo are tops in terms of immersive NPC mods. Xan is massively content heavy but I'm ok with that as long as it is reasonable (which it is, no ridiculous items/XP gains and quests are in line with vanilla content) and Angelo is just hilarious. I'm waiting eagerly for Valerie BG2. Haven't finished a game with Isra either but she's fun to have.
Generally, I've never met a romance NPC that's not horny/desperate/lewd. Reading the dialog.tlk file after installation is like reading soft porn that's so bad it's funny.
This is part of the reason why I cannot tolerate more than one mod/custom NPC in my party (except for Imoen - I always mod her into another type of thief/mage that is more to my liking... I'm annoyed that I took her with my BG party and she was dual-classed in BG2 without my permission!). There will be too much stuff to write if I run too many custom/mod NPCs. LOL
I also agree about Yasreana's placement being completely horrible. Same thing goes with Kachiko from Tortured Souls.
Putting the characters there is basically getting on your knees and begging players to take your NPC with them. Might as well give out candy.
and actually encouraged me to keep playing despite not being happy with the PC I was using.
Angelo's romance is lighter on content but no less realistic. Even if the mod and the BG1 Angelo have no semblance whatsoever I prefer the mod version by miles (in fact I changed the BG1 Angelo.cre a bit to make it more consistent with the mod). It had exactly the right combination of drama, tragedy and humor to make me want to play the whole thing through, and the ending, I'll admit, made me go d'aww. Even the epilogue made me quiver a little.
With most other female PC romances I just get flat out bored.
*although in some cases this can still make a good story, in the case of Gavin, since there's more to the romance than what you see.
I imagine this would result in something along the lines of Gossip Girls
Saerilith: "Oh Em Geez, Tsujatha, can thoust imagine mine pain"
Tsujatha: "Yes. It is like this big black hole inside of my heart" *stares blankly into the night*
Saerilith: "Thou art the only one who understandeth mine inner turmoil"
Tsujatha: *pushes emo-style hair out of his eyes* "Life is pain. Man I am so sexy"
...I'm down
Not sure if ranger Sarah is available for EE, but that was a solid NPC. Great music score as I recall. Didn't like the portrait, but that's easily fixed.
Since nobody actually knows what Mount Celestian culture is like, no one can verify if Mount Celestians actually DO speak the way Saerileth does...
Not being a fan (haven't even installed it) of the mod but from what I read, the creator (female) was going for a Juliet-like character.
1. She's very young. Juliet in (Romeo & Juliet) was 13.
2. She falls in love very easy. Romeo's and Juliet's romance lasted for THREE DAYS.
3. She dies from broken heart. Though Juliet kills herself by stabbing herself? Not sure.
For one, I would prefer if Saerileth was more like Joan of Arc than Juliet.
A young holy warrior that is believably innocent yet very brave, courageous, noble and kind.
And it would make it more believable if she came from a peasant or simple background than literally the Heavens.
I personally don't have as much of a problem with her being 15. (Juliet was 13).
I facepalm at people that cannot tell the difference between a child and a teen.
"15-16 years old?! OMFG you pedo! 18 years old? Whatever, have her raped or a being a dominatrix, it's cool."
But I find it pointless. There really is no point in making her 15 years old except to say "she's VERY very innocent".
Imoen is innocent too in BG1 and Alora is also very child-like and innocent as well.
Making her 18 but really inexperienced and innocent would solve most problems.
I also tried the Imoen romance, which you could see as incestuous if you look too far into it, but couldn't get it to work properly back in the day.
Haven't actually used him, but Murneth always seemed a bit off to me. His race (an intelligent ooze) is basically decided by his kit, and while I realize that might be necessary for custom races, I don't really like that concept..
Haven't used a lot of other NPCs, though that will definitely change.
That's the thing. I don't have a problem with her being 15.
Juliet was 13 as I said and it's considered a classic and timeless romance story.
Just 50 or 100 years ago people were getting married, had sex and even children at around that age in Europe and America.
I believe my grandmother got married at age 16. Not just "had a romance".
Many teenagers are having sex around the age of 14-16 nowadays and not necessarily with people their age (for example: prostitutes).
My point? I dislike hypocritical (speaking in general) political-correctness that thinks that people magically become adults at age 18, while at age 15-16 they're considered fragile and innocent children.
(Just remember your own teens and tell me how innocent or fragile you were.)
About Saerileth, I just consider her age a totally pointless information. It's like telling me "she has a missing tooth". It serves no purpose at all, it's useless information that nonetheless is controversial.
Nevermind that her class and stats make no sense for her. She's a warrior, hardened by battle, chosen by a god, she's somewhat wise and charismatic, yet she's so immature and dies from broken heart?
She should have been a Bard instead with low Wisdom. Her idealism and overdramatic end suits much more to her.
1. By William Shakespeare and not "Sillara of the Tamari."
2. 400 YEARS AGO So? Lots of things were considered acceptable 100 years ago that aren't acceptable now. I'm gonna go ahead and ask if you think it's okay for a man in, say, his thirties to sleep with a 14 year old. Because your answer will determine whether I should pursue this line of discussion or just start banging my head on things.
1. It makes no difference. It's still a work of fiction. Shakespeare is just more famous and much better writer.
2. Baldur's Gate is set in the Forgotten Realms which is loosely medieval fantasy. Not modern day.
Bringing modern-day morals in that setting is meaningless.
And no, it's not okay for a 30 year old man to sleep with a 14 year old. Though CHARNAME is about 20 years-old, no matter his/her race.
Also, let's not compare a 15 year old in the Forgotten Realms with a modern day teen.
Saerileth is a holy warrior that is trained for combat. You know, to shove her sword into the evil's stomach.
Joan of Arc was already an experienced warrior at her age.
Yet people think that a romance with her is creepy?
Also Daenerys Targaryen from Game of Thrones (maybe in the books too) is 16 in the first season.
And you know what happens to her early on if you are watching the series.
Personally, I firmly believe that a 16 year old is an adult, psychologically and biologically, scientifically speaking.
It's debatable from person to person but in general, there aren't many differences if at all between a person of 16 years and 18 years of age. Only legal ones.
We once had a conversation with an ex-girlfriend of mine that was around 25 if I remember right and me being 20. I'm now 25.
She told me that a 16 year old is already a woman.
So that's another person's and a woman's perspective for me. Not just my opinion.
See, this is what you aren't getting. This is not a book. It's a character inserted into a game for people to interact with. You can get your mack on with her and make her wear a skimpy outfit whenever you want. And it has no bearing on the narrative. It's just there for you to do.
It's a fantasy designed to titillate. And throughout all this, the modders want you the player; not Charname, the PLAYER; to know that she is a 15 year old girl. Not because it's important to the character. Not because it's relevant in any way at all. They just thought you'd like to know that as you stare at her bikini portrait.
Yes, a timeless romance with a 13 year old girl.
My arguments were in-character-wise only. A player could be 50 years old and get into a romance with a character that's 18 years old.
This doesn't automatically mean "so you think that a 50 year old romancing a 18 year old is okay" in a universal way.
And really the last part about dressing her up and having her into a bikini "argument" is just silly to say the least so I won't even comment on it.
Or do you think I made that up? I didn't. You can ask her to wear a skimpy outfit and she'll do it, and there's a separate portrait for it. 15.
...Really? There's an option to make her wear a bikini in character and her portrait changes too?
I wasn't aware of that. I figured you were talking about that you could have any female character wear any piece of clothing out of character.
Yeah, that's pushing it. And it's also pointless.
Her being 15 and getting into a romance with her is one thing. Having put silly outfits is just some silly fantasy.
That said, all the sourcebooks indicate that people do reach adulthood earlier in Faerun. 15 is the age of majority at least in Calimshan, and they're supposed to be married by 20 (presumably to another teenager) or they're a disgrace. (See Races of Faerun.) Other places probably aren't quite so awful, but by the books, 15 is effectively an adult in some human societies.
Of course, the Saerileth mod intentionally presents it as something scandalous and implies that people are looking at the PC askance for being with someone so young, so they seem to be consciously going for the forbidden angle.