Save That Drow! Sword Coast Edition
Pokota
Member Posts: 858
So most everyone here is familiar with Viconia DeVir, former priestess of Lolth that you save from certain death... or not.
From a gaming perspective, I save her because it nets me an early Plate in BG1 and is generally a cheap way to gain XP in both 1 and 2. But what about why my character would save her? Or neglects to save her, at any rate.
So let's play a little game, shall we? Post an alignment and a justification for saving Viconia, as well as a justification for not saving Viconia. Don't worry if someone else picked the alignment you wanted, just go with it!
I'll start with Neutral Neutral.
SAVE: She is a drow, murder is in her nurture.
DON'T SAVE: She is a drow, murder is in her nature.
From a gaming perspective, I save her because it nets me an early Plate in BG1 and is generally a cheap way to gain XP in both 1 and 2. But what about why my character would save her? Or neglects to save her, at any rate.
So let's play a little game, shall we? Post an alignment and a justification for saving Viconia, as well as a justification for not saving Viconia. Don't worry if someone else picked the alignment you wanted, just go with it!
I'll start with Neutral Neutral.
SAVE: She is a drow, murder is in her nurture.
DON'T SAVE: She is a drow, murder is in her nature.
10
Comments
Save:The Flaming Fist Mercenary simply calls her a murderer but refuses to elaborate. Regardless of her race you can't let an innocent person die. Its likely she has killed someone in the past, being a drow, but you can't risk murdering an innocent person on conjecture. She also asked for help, and honestly if a orc stops and asks my lawful good hero for help rather then attack like a maniac I'd hear him out too.
Don't Save:Shes a drow and you're a total dick. Okay, to be fair she has murdered people but all things considered once she left the underdark it was mostly self defense and by then you've probably killed twice as many. Regardless, it makes sense one would take the word of a flaming fist over a race known to be super evil. Still, I always save her.
Lawful Neutral
Save: this man is clearly taking the law into his own hands this women must stand appropriate trial and be judged by those who aren't filled with blood lust
Don't Save: This officer of the law is just doing his job I have every confidence he is only doing what is expected and instructed of him to help the Drow would be to aid a criminal
My bards reasoning in my EE run through: shes good looking should probably save her
Save: Sure, why not?
Don't Save: Sure, why not?
Save: Killing her or letting her die solely on the say-so of one man who has no proof of a crime worthy of capital punishment isn't justice, it's murder. Ideally, you could do this without having to kill the flaming fist officer, but standing in defense of a helpless person when they are being persecuted is the right thing to do.
Don't Save: As a priestess of Shar she stands for everything that is anathema to a NG character. She actively supports the work and agenda of a goddess that wishes to bring about the undoing of the very world in which she lives. Although she might not have committed any crime this time, it is not unlikely that if she lives she will go on to commit terrible crimes in the future - she is all but obligated to do so in service to her deity.
Chaotic Evil
Save: For one, Viconia would be a useful addition to your party. More importantly, to defy the crowd in Athkatla and create a bloodbath would surely make a fitting tableau or bard's tale to demonstrate your ferocity and brilliance.
Don't Save: The weak deserve their fates, and they deserve no sympathy.
Lawful Neutral
Save: The model of social justice being presented reflects poorly on legal institutions, and the exaltation of Beshaba as a legitimate power in a society that masquerades as being stable and controlled introduces a volatile element to perceptions of authority. In addition, a LN character may believe that ignorance and prejudices such as these weaken society as a whole, particularly in a city of trade that relies on a cosmopolitan clientele to flourish.
Don't Save: It is foolish to interfere or become unpopular in the public eye in a new city where one wishes to gather information. Besides, who knows what unfavourable attention a person could draw if they create a scene in the Government district. A LN character may believe that rallying the general populace against a minority or disputed social group strengthens society as a whole.
Save: because I know what it's like to be singled out through assumption (BG1); because I don't mind having her or anyone else in my debt. But her especially (BG2).
Don't save: because I don't want to expose myself to the hassle or danger of being on the wrong side of the law (BG1); fire is pretty (BG2).
Edit: thought about it some more.
BG 1: (Don't Save is my only logical solution).
The character, who grew up in Candlekeep, is aware that the Flaming Flaming fists are the local authorties and generally speaking, good enforcers of law and order. Thus when confronted with having to side with a Fist soldier or a Drow, it's an easy decision to side with the Fist.
Ideally, if my character was more 'liberal', which is unlikely given the setting, then he would try to halt the violence in order to determine the rights and wrongs of this particular case, but again, when push comes to shove, he would still side with the lawful authorities over a stranger of a race generally known to be evil. If you are being RP realistic, it takes an INCREDIBLE amount of 'liberal enlightenment' to NOT be racist towards a race that is generally viciously and unrepenetingly evil. Remember that Charname, unlike the player, does not know that you COULD redeem Viconia.
BG 2:
This time the situation is a lot more ambiguous. Instead of clearly lawful authorities carrying out an execution of a condemned criminal, it looks like a lynch mob carrying out extra-judiciary justice.
Save: Both the Lawful and Good aspects of Charname's personality demands that he halt this possible injustice. The Drow might be guilty, but she should be delivered to the Athkatlan authorities to be tried according to the law, not burnt at the stake by a mob.
Don't Save: This manner of execution is distasteful, but a Drow is a Drow, and causing a blood bath to save a Drow, who is likely guilty of the crimes she is accused of, is unnecessary.
Save: Stop the fanatics. She needs to be judged properly by the count.
Don't Save: Burn the witch!!!
Neutral Good
Save: Hear her version of the story and free her.
Don't Save: I have to make sure that the peasants won't suffer burns for standing near that vivid heat source.
Chaotic Good
Save: People with blue skin can't possible be evil! She might just be an oversized Smurf with heavy accent!
Don't Save: One drow less to deal with.
Lawful Neutral
Save: The fanatics haven't received permission for building a stake within the city walls. All people involved with the construction will be dealt with!
Don't Save: The fanatics have received permission for oth building and using the stake. Everything is in order.
True Neutral
Save: Burning people at the stake is bad for the environment.
Don't Save: Meh, nothing interesting to see here...
Chaotic Neutral
Don't Save: Such a pretty fire! Now, where did I put my marshmellows...?
Save: Damn, I'm out of marshmellows!!!
Lawful Evil
Save: She's of greater value to you when alive and in your debt.
Don't Save: On a second thought, it would be bad for my reputation to be involved with a drow.
Neutral Evil
Save: Chances are she will give me a reward for dealing with those pests. More gold is always welcome.
Don't Save: The smell of burning flesh gets me hungry. Let's visit that steakhouse over there!
Chaotic Evil
Save: Burn the fanatics, peasants and everyone else who isn't fast enough. Bwahahahaha!!!
Don't Save: Burn the drow, fanatics, peasants and everyone else who isn't fast enough. Bwahahahahaha!!!
To get more serious, any drow priestess that wasn't downright suicidal or stupid wouldn't leave the Underdark and if she did, she would be escorted by a full drow raid party.
And ONLY at night.
If people know about drow, then they most likely know that they attack in groups during the night.
That's basic drow knowledge.
If your character is someone that even peeked at the Candlekeep library, then they know even more stuff about drow, especially if they're elven.
In the end, even a Human Lawful Good Paladin with zero knowledge of drow, would object to someone wanting to kill a dark skinned woman that asks for help.
Even if she's a proven (which is not as far as CHARNAME knows) murderer, a LAWFUL character would have her taken to judges or court of the nearest city.
And the Flaming Fist soldier is not a judge or Paladin or Lawful for that matter and is abusing his authority by wanting to KILL a lone drow woman that is defending herself and not attacking him first.
A big reason to trust her, be it Good, Evil, Chaotic or Lawful, would be because she's alone and asks for help.
Sure, she might have been bluffing. But if she was, the soldier would already be dead.
To get more specific.
A Lawful Good character would want proof of her wrong-doings other than dark-skin and offer her a chance.
A Lawful Neutral would do the same. "Take her to be judged". Though if she resists, attack her.
A Lawful Evil one would see the advantage of having a drow in his plans for domination.
A Neutral Good wouldn't want to see her killed in cold blood when she pleads for help.
A True Neutral wouldn't care either way probably. Depends on character.
A Neutral Evil would take her in. Having a drow with you is awesome. Drow are powerful.
A Chaotic Good would go against the MERCENARY (because that's what the Flaming Fist are) and protect her.
A Chaotic Neutral would kill the soldier just for being a self-righteous idiot. Anarchy!
A Chaotic Evil would kill the soldier because it's more fun. Plus she's drow. Time to terrorize the peasants.
Lawful characters would want some proof before simply killing her.
Neutral ones pretty much depends on alignment and character.
Chaotics would kill the soldier because they hate authority or laws.
The only race that is truly biased against drow are elves. Buuut, an elven CHARNAME is not raised from elves to get their hated history with drow.
My Cavalier helped her but didn't let her join the party because in character he would say "There's no honor in killing a woman that asks for help, especially when the soldier is not giving her a lawful chance to prove her innocence and actually ATTACKS me if I refuse to help him."
Also, a Paladin gives EVERY creature that is surrendering or pleading for help a chance. It's called "mercy". That's part of his Code of Conduct. Even an orc, drow or demon. And I can find the entry in the Book of Exalted Deeds (3.5E) that says that.
The more Lawful characters, even the good ones, the only reason you are ever given on why she should be killed is "Because she's a drow." and it's not exactly a good argument on why you should do it... So at that point, saving her becomes the more just thing to do actually than straight out killing her for no good reason... Unless there's some kind of law that all drow must be killed on sight...
Chaotic characters... chaotic good would probably save her because it appears more the good thing to do even if against the law to do so.
Chaotic Neutral probably would just flip a coin or something...
Chaotic Evil would most likely save her because they realize that Drows usually are quite powerful so having one as an ally would be a good idea.
Save: "Black elf tats!"
Save: A lonely drow elf in leather armor asks for help, or else she will be killed. I remember the only other drow elf on the surface world I´ve ever read about, Drizz Do´Urden, and instantly make the decision to save her from an untimely death, in whatever form it pursuits and persecutes her... which appears to be a Flaming Fist Mercenary, claiming that she is evil and must be destroyed. Now I face a moment of doubt, because the Flaming Fist Mercenary I encountered before while travelling on a public road attacked me, thinking I was a bandit - I simply don ´t approve to their views of justice and honor.
Some insightful reading about the roles she plays in the game:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damsel_in_distress & http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Femme_fatale
Secondly, the whole situtation is a good example for the thesis of true neutral alignment´s motto of siding with the underdog in any given situation - disregarding Viconia´s Magic Resistance, she is clearly in danger, wearing only a leather armor and a mace versus a sword, shield and plate mail. This is true in SoA, too, and the situtation is even worse for Viconia, being tied up on a stake as a victim of witch-hunt. I don´t think it´s fair to be judged only by one´s heritage, though at the same time my opinion of the drow on the surface world might be a bit influenced by my youthful memories of reading R. A. Salvatore´s novels about Drizzt and his exodus from Underdark.
Don´t save: Well, I tend to save her, but I can imagine roleplaying either a Flaming Fist enthusiasist in BG1. or a cleric of Beshaba in BG2.
Like I said, they're neither Knights nor Paladins.
They're simply mercenaries that found a sure job as the employees of Duke Eltan.
Especially the ones you encounter before go "why are you wandering out here? aha! you must be bandits. durrr".
And when you answer "...If we were bandits would we be walking out here in the open?"
They go "Ehh, well alright you're not bandits, I guess".
I'm not sure these idiots are qualified to make such judgements. "I am the Law!" Hold your horses, Judge Dredd, you're not the Law, you're just the Sword Coast janitor for hire.
Save:
I always save Viconia in BG1 even if a lawful good Paladin. I don't trust the flaming fists judgement after they accosted and came near to attacking me on the road to Bereghost.
If they will attack a small group of travelers for no reason, I would Imagine that a Drow would simply be killed on sight, wether guilty of anything or not.
Don't save:
Drow are born evil, and thus should be murdered on sight. (Except for Drizzt)
Batman
Save:You can't let this obvious injustice go on, even if it means saving a villain.
Don't save:You swore to work with authorities and lets face it, despite the whole "no kill" thing you sometimes do it anyways.
In BG2, she directly calls out for Shar. Priestesses of Shar basically have to kill innocents to remain Priestess's of Shar. At that point, it's a conflict between a Sharran and a Beeshabian- whoever loses, everyone else wins. That being said, I think being burned at the stake is hideous compared to being killed in honorable combat, so if I'm playing a more hoity toity group, I save her then kill her in fair combat (one on one with my CHARNAME, none of the other characters joining in).
So I guess my question is, are we talking BG1 or BG2? In BG1, I can see no reason why a chaotic good character wouldn't save her, unless s/he doesn't read at all and has thus never learned that 'always' doesn't mean 'always' (Drizzt exists!). In BG2, I can see quite a few reasons why a CG character might leave her to burn.
By the way, I should add about Drizzt. You freaking meet him in the Sword Coast and probably before Viconia (unless you rush to get her).
Everyone knows about Drizzt. Even the guards: "I can take on Drizzit with one hand behind my back."
I think a meeting with Drizzt is all the reason CHARNAME needs to save Viconia.
With Viconia is quite the opposite. A good person is faced with a moral dilemma one often doesn't face when dealing with evil companions. It often seems the good option is to save someone evil, possibly from someone not evil. This is the sort of situation every RPer of a good and/or righteous character should be stuck in at least once (but not too often or it becomes tedious). Sometimes the good people come to blows, sometimes evil is the victim, and thats when the whole alignment thing can get interesting.
I remember I had a paladin once who needed the help of an older paladin and met his daughter, a half succubus prostitute who, by the rules of her race, always detected of evil. Their encounters and talks were...interesting to say the least, and a character's reaction to stuff like that is what keeps you from being the standard cut out of alignment and makes your character unique
[Spoiler]you can eventually shift said alignment to True Neutral.
When all is said and done, taking her epilogue into account, she stands as perhaps the foremost tragic figure of the series. One does not develop a character to such great lengths on a whim.[/Spoiler]
Don't Save: The authority is the law, and their decision must be respected regardless of reasoning.
Save: The authority of the mercenary is called into question, or the mercenary in turn, is breaking a law by presenting himself as judge, jury and executioner without lawful reasoning of why this drow cannot be taken to the nearest settlement for conviction. BUT that is a stretch.
Save: What evidence is there of the drow commiting a murder
Don't Save: All drow (except Drizzt) are evil
Chaotic Good (BG2)
Save: Beshaba worshippers are just as evil as the drow are (Beshaba is the evil opposite of Tymora, as Shar is the evil opposite of Selune) and it is not justice to burn someone simply because he/she is of a race with an evil reputation
Don't Save: (I can't find a good reason why. I mean, even Minsc recognized the injustice done to Viconia!)
Save: Vigilantism is poisonous to legitimate order and authority. The Flaming Fist seems to be acting on no one's authority but his own, and the followers of Beshaba are clearly insane.
Don't save: But then again, if I interfere I'm taking the law into my own hands as well. I'll report the incident to the appropriate authorities.
True Neutral
Save: The drow is on the wrong end of a clear abuse of power in both situations. Time to rectify some imbalance with my sword!
Don't save: *Yawn*. Not my affair.
Chaotic Neutral:
Save: I feel like killing some people today!
Don't save: Oooh! Never seen a public execution before. This could be interesting! *Casts Agannazar's Scorcher to pop some popcorn*
Lawful Evil:
Save: She might be useful and I could use some practice stabbing things in the face. Murder is technically against the law, but...if I tried to save a helpless woman and was attacked for it, isn't that self defense?
Don't Save: Whether the drow did anything wrong or not, dealing harshly with people who are seen as deviants helps maintain order. And why should I risk my hide saving her? I'm not a damned Knight of the Radiant Heart. And I certainly don't need some Underdark filth slinking about behind me, plotting my demise and drawing the attention of every goody-two-shoes around.
Neutral Evil:
Save: Maybe if I save her she'll do me.
Don't save: Stupid b*** got herself caught, so I doubt she's useful enough for it to be worth me risking my neck. And I doubt I could trust her anyway.
He isn't even as sharp as Viconia's mace.
I believe that Viconia was raised in a society where evil was normal. She's also a rebel (Chaotic vice the normal Lawful of the Drow). She's also a manipulative bitch, early on.
Save: Damsel in distress (as mentioned above), attractive, and desperate. And, since the only option is ruffian frontier justice (not a trial or whatnot), it's forced to a head (slay or save, no middle ground). In this situation, a good party would eventually realize she's not at all interested in doing good deeds and manipulated the party into letting her hide amongst the protection of mages, warriors and (probably) a rogue... It makes no sense for the party to actually keep her (if a good party) over the long run.
Don't save: Because it's so obvious. She doesn't belong where she is, and there are no tales of her rampaging across the countryside doing good deeds. Similarly, it's all too convenient that this elven abomination just happened to be unjustly accused of murder most foul. While the Flaming Fist are mostly idiots, only one group of them was ridiculous, and even they could be talked down by smart lips (confession: I usually screw it up and end up killing them)...
And therefore bur... wait, no no. We must go and rescue the drow.
(BG1)
Save - The Flaming Fist represents all that I despise. Their blind devotion to "the law", regardless of the good or evil effects that their acts cause, is the reason enough to side with Viconia.
Don't Save - I might not like the Flaming Fist, but he did say she was guilty of murder, and the Drow are supposedly inherently evil creatures. Saving one wouldn't necessarily uphold the greater good, especially if I had to kill the Fist merc to do so. (It should be noted, however, that I would not be rooting for the Fist; rather I would just let those two go at it and may the best fighter win).
(BG2)
Save - An angry mob burning someone at the stake is not *good* no matter how you look at it. Plus, my penchant for personal freedom just wouldn't stand for that kind of public execution. Murdering someone just because of their race seems like something any CG character would disagree with.
Don't Save - Pretty hard to find a reason not to save *anyone* from an angry mob, especially without some compelling reason that they deserve to be burninated alive... I'm reaching here, but I guess I'd have to fall back on the inherent prejudice against Drow that permeates the Realms. Still seems out of character to let her die, no matter how I slice it.