Agreed, it's nice if a character is flexible and can fit in more party constellations that way. Shar-Teel and Xzar in particular make two excellent dual classes because they can dual so early. They are already pretty damn efficient in their original class and both excel in the new one. Safana suffers a bit because she has to wait for the tome, and it is only available in late game. The same goes for Branwen, who can become a Cleric/Thief and Dynaheir, who can also be a Specialist Mage/Cleric (with 2 tomes, though).
For a mod, this would mean to give the character a backstory that fits both classes though, and consider that not all players would dual. Xzar makes perfect sense as cleric with the interest in life and death as necromancer. But I can't up with a good reason why Branwen would suddenly become a thief. For a fighter or thief with high intelligence, for example, there would have to be "moderate" interest in magic. Enough to justify that the NPC says "yup, I'll see where that goes", but also toned down enough to say "I find this interesting, but it's not for me". Someone with enough wisdom to become a cleric should already have ties to a deity, but start out as a "casual believer".
I very much like the idea of an wild elven (or maybe a half-elven, perhaps being somewhat of a outcast to add to their character?) NPC who volunteers to travel with you to defeat Bodhi after agreeing to aid the wild elves of Suldanessellar. D&D lore isn't my strong suit so I wouldn't know what class/alignment/gender would be best for the character. In the story, perhaps a stealthing class would suit best since the elf leader himself declares he cannot risk openly sending elves to march on human land. This could additionally be apt as Wikipedia describes these wild elves as "The most reclusive of all the elves, the wild elves pride themselves on their isolation and skill at keeping hidden." So the thief and ranger kits would be worth considering. Otherwise, with the "wild" nature of these elves, this NPC could be the perfect chance to finally add a barbarian to the BG2 mix, although once again I don't know if this fits with the lore of Suldanessellar, just going by the term wild and it's association with barbarism. The Druid class also seems apt for the setting, perhaps particularly the avenger kit, although a Totemic Druid's interaction with their spirit animal could be interesting, maybe after staying with the party for a long time their Spirit Animal disappears and triggers a quest for the character. As far as alignment goes I'd presume good or neutral.
Through reading their forgotten realms wiki page, other classes for this wild elf could include bard and the sorcerer. Going back to the ranger class, a beastmaster, like barbarian, could be interesting due to the class not appearing in any of the original NPCs, and apt because of the wild elves often lacking metal.
I've recently heard complaints about character locations that don't make any sense (meeting Yasraena in Irenicus's Dungeon, etc)
This got me thinking of where to meet decent characters in the games, in places that make sense. The one place in the main early BG1 storyline that doesn't have a character associated with it (as in the way Xan and Yeslick are associated with both mining operations) is the Bandit Camp. This would be an ideal location for a rogue character. Maybe one who joined the bandits out of necessity but has become disillusioned with their activities. (pretty cliche)
Or one that had been a leader in a bandit gang that was all but destroyed in the Iron Throne's activities. Maybe he never trusted them, but had to go along because his bad saw profit in it. Now he could join you to get revenge. You get a. a reasonable starting location for this character and b. a reason for him/her to travel with you
IMO, the most critical building block for an NPC mod is the background story. Good stories may lead to good characters, but bad stories will always lead to bad characters
With a good story that is plausible, doesn't force the player to suspend belief, and is relatively easy to rationalize and flesh out, there will be the potential for a good NPC mod. I run through a small group of mod NPCs for comparison:
Saerileth - 15-year old chosen of Tyr whose family is planetouched and lives in Mount Celestia? Who on earth knows how Mount Celestian culture is like, and by extension, their way of life, values, motivations, etc.? Is that alien culture even remotely similar to that on Faerun?
Chloe - Daughter of a goddess (Akadi, goddess of air, but on the page is spelled Akadia). Those who DO know Realmslore (c.f. Faiths and Avatars) will know that the elemental gods are remote and relatively uncaring. Why would such a goddess have anything to do with humans? Even if players don't know the lore, why should a goddess come down to earth and have fun with a man for no apparent reason...
Nathaniel - Former officer of Flaming Fist who left after PC slew Angelo. There were Flaming Fist NPCs who, in Ch.7 in BG, said that they would leave FF before things got worse, so the intention can be corroborated in canon material. It's also a lot easier to flesh out his goals since he's pretty much "normal".
Of these three, Saerileth's back story would be the hardest to write, because nobody knows what on earth Mount Celestia planetouched culture is all about. Chloe is not so bad but still pushes back the borders of plausibility. Nathaniel can actually be based on people we know in RL superimposed on an NPC.
The background also links to the most defining part of the NPC:
Saerileth - Why should she be chosen (of all of Tyr's servants), when Tyr has hardly anything to do with the Bhaalspawn saga, etc. It's basically the creators spinning some yarn and expecting players to lap it all up
Chloe - Orphan is easy to explain away since it erases the background altogether, but if she is promoted as a lesbian romance, then there should be some plausible story why she is so, contravening prevailing culture
Nathaniel - It is not unheard of for military people to be gay, so since he's a member of Flaming Fist, it's not entirely unreasonable for him to be so.
Then the background leads to the personality of the NPC, setting up for some conflict (and drama)
Saerileth - Pursuing a powerful enemy? How does this affect her character? Can this be plausibly linked to her having any character weakness and therefore more human (and identifiable)?
Chloe - Why should she experience any quest to begin with... when she is abandoned and probably doesn't have a reason to make any enemies because of a lack of association? Psychopathy? Loneliness?
Nathaniel - He was dumped by his lover. Common stuff that we can identify with. Insecurity and neediness due to poor constitution, being dumped, these are real things we can see in everyday life.
The list goes on. When the story is properly crafted, the character is more believable, and it's easier to fashion a plausible set of strengths/weaknesses/unique challenges that is less likely to make the NPC steal the limelight. Things like classes, stats, dialogue, are really more technical things that can be worked into the story. Classes can be changed, stats can be buffed or nerfed, dialogue can be added or cut. But an unbelievable story remains an unbelievable story. Thus said, I believe many NPC mods fail because the stories are TOO fantastical. It just "doesn't make sense", giving us the feeling of "fake", "forced" and so on.
The story can also become too fantastical if mod creators start out with some item/quest/type of romance, then try to "construct the story backwards" by making a background that accommodates all the things on their wish list. This will also cause the story to be implausible. The item/quest/romance exist for the story, not the reverse.
As the 2nd Edition AD&D PHB recommends, constructing a believable illusion requires that the illusion is plausible. Push this too far and the illusion is easily broken.
One thing I'd like to add is that I think the main story behind the NPC should be one of three choices: 1. Baldur's Gate 2. Shadows of Amn 3. Throne of Bhaal Basically the problem you pointed out with Saerilith is one that needs to be avoided for an NPC mod to even be considered playable (imho)
What might constitute a "good backstory" could still make for a terrible NPC in the context of the Baldur's Gate Saga. For example, I think Wulfgar is a pretty cool character and all, but if you made him a joinable NPC it would 9 times out of 10 be a disaster.
At the end of the day, one of the most vital elements of a good NPC is how he fits into the current game. He could have the coolest backstory ever, yet feel like the giant pink miniature giant space elephant in the room.
One thing I'd like to add is that I think the main story behind the NPC should be one of three choices: 1. Baldur's Gate 2. Shadows of Amn 3. Throne of Bhaal Basically the problem you pointed out with Saerilith is one that needs to be avoided for an NPC mod to even be considered playable (imho)
What might constitute a "good backstory" could still make for a terrible NPC in the context of the Baldur's Gate Saga. For example, I think Wulfgar is a pretty cool character and all, but if you made him a joinable NPC it would 9 times out of 10 be a disaster.
At the end of the day, one of the most vital elements of a good NPC is how he fits into the current game. He could have the coolest backstory ever, yet feel like the giant pink miniature giant space elephant in the room.
Yup.
For someone like Wulfgar, since he already has an existing backstory, fitting him into the BG backstory will require a very good explanation why he's here... And considering he's already been fleshed out pretty thoroughly in the Salvatore books, it's pretty unlikely a typical modder can "change course".
To conclude my previous post, Nathaniel is the best of the lot, and *potentially* better than many NPC mods out there. The writing isn't fantastic and is somewhat buggy, but with effort, this average mod can be reworked into a good or even great mod, because his story is real (there are gays in real life in whatever era), believable (the PC did leave a mess in BG), and issues arising from insecurity are common to mankind. Resolving his issues and helping him grow out of them will seal the deal, with some balancing of unique items, some improvement in stats to make him dual-ready, and some bug-squishing.
For Chloe, it's hard. For Saerileth, nigh impossible. Because their background stories are already implausible. Chloe may still be rescued if her background involving Akadi is resolved, and it's adequately explained why she is the way she is. Saerileth... Without a complete rewrite, it's not quite possible, since the entire premise of this NPC is unbelievable.
Heh heh. I went back and found Sister Vigilante's (writer of Angelo NPC) article on writing BG NPCs. Don't agree with it entirely but it's for the most part spot on.
Heh heh. I went back and found Sister Vigilante's (writer of Angelo NPC) article on writing BG NPCs. Don't agree with it entirely but it's for the most part spot on.
I also remember many years ago, I played Stonekeep (published by Interplay too) and there was a novella that came with the game pack. If a mod writer is willing to create a mod with more (appropriate) background story fleshed out in a novella, I'd rate the mod more highly. Some elements of storytelling don't translate well across the BG medium and are best left for prose.
That's a good point. In prose, a good rule of thumb is to avoid exposition through dialogue. "Show us the story, don't tell it." Baldur's Gate generally does a decent job of this, showing us the story through actions and some letters, books, etc. Many mod NPCs are guilty of telling you the majority of their story, proving their rule rather than the exception, when such dialogue only works in certain, typically more intimate instances.
I write stories based on how I imagine the NPC would be based on his in-game interaction with the PC. I usually write them in journal-style from a first-person perspective. But there are also times when I'm itching to write something more dramatic, so I'll leave the dialogue segments for conflicts between characters, in an approximate 1:3 dialogue:prose ratio. Sometimes prose cannot do justice for the most anguished moments between people, and this is where dialogue needs to come in.
Quick and dirty example of what I often do. The scene from below should be pretty recognizable... End of Chapter 6 after fighting Prat and talking to Diarmid, immediately before the return to Baldur's Gate.
I'll typically write something like this, then revise it a few times until I'm happy with it, and continue playing. LOL. I think I write more than I play.
---------------------
We were in deep trouble.
I had thought that after dispatching Prat and his cohorts, we could make our way back to Baldur's Gate and end this madness. But from what I gathered from Diarmid, Sarevok was once again ahead of us. While we were preoccupied with our escape from Candlekeep, Sarevok has already installed enough of his allies in the city to make it too perilous for us to return. How would we be able to right these wrongs that he has wrought?
I was so deeply engrossed in my musings, that I was startled when I felt a hand on my shoulder.
"My friend, you look pensive. What troubles you?", I turned around and saw Kivan, his face furrowed in a look of concern.
* insert discussion with Kivan in dialogue form *
Kivan was right. For good or ill, we have to face off with Sarevok sooner or later. Until we are all dead, he will not let us off, and I have a debt to pay for Gorion's death. Perilous or no, we will go back to the city to deal with Sarevok once and for all. We may be outnumbered, but we have to give this our best shot.
And when we are done, only one of us will emerge from the city alive.
I think what makes a good mod NPC is if there are some people who really enjoy playing it. Not necessarily most people. It is important for an NPC to appeal to most people only if it is one created by the developers. To me, the whole idea of a mod NPC is the ability to have someone who interests you in your game. Not one that has to appeal to the masses. An NPC that has to appeal to the most people possible, ends up being less in my opinion. Less unique, less entertaining, and often feeling flat.
It makes me cringe in sympathy for the authors of some mods that get bashed so often. I’ve never played the ones that get mentioned the most, only because they didn’t seem like the kind of NPC that I would personally find interesting. But I assume they have their fans or they would have completely disappeared long ago. Trying to appeal to everyone makes a flat feeling NPC. Decide who your target audience is and try to please them, not everyone. I remember what Jayne Ann Krentz said in a foreword to one of her books. She said that she decided a long time ago to write for her fans, not for the critics.
Write an NPC that would appeal to you in your game. If you fall in love with them, then there will be others that do as well. Not everyone, perhaps not even many. But chances are that those who they do appeal to will be delighted that someone put their time and heart into a mod that makes their playing experience more fun.
Here's something I've noticed happening with mod NPCs (and some official ones, DORN.)
"Did I ever tell you the story of how I did a thing? No? Okay. *exposition exposition* OH DANG, suddenly I am overcome with sadness/anger/boredom. Guess you'll have to wait for the next lovetalk!"
Don't do that. It's a transparent way of drawing things out.
It's also a good rule for RL conversation. Show people what you're about - there's little in this world as insufferable as someone who tells you all about him or herself at the drop of a hat.
Here's something I've noticed happening with mod NPCs (and some official ones, DORN.)
"Did I ever tell you the story of how I did a thing? No? Okay. *exposition exposition* OH DANG, suddenly I am overcome with sadness/anger/boredom. Guess you'll have to wait for the next lovetalk!"
Don't do that. It's a transparent way of drawing things out.
Anomen and (I think) Viconia do it too.
I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing, though, if used sparsely. If you're using it to draw things out, that's not good, but it can also be used to keep a dialogue from getting too large and unwieldy. If you've got something important, splitting it in half can give you more time to both introduce it organically and actually wrap it up afterwards. Pack one dialogue with a bunch of different ideas and it will suffer for it.
I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing, though, if used sparsely. If you're using it to draw things out, that's not good, but it can also be used to keep a dialogue from getting too large and unwieldy. If you've got something important, splitting it in half can give you more time to both introduce it organically and actually wrap it up afterwards. Pack one dialogue with a bunch of different ideas and it will suffer for it.
Sure, but there are better methods than to just suddenly halt the conversation with a line that might as well read "To be continued."
Also, aspiring modders: If dialogue's getting unwieldy, the solution might be to stop writing so many words. Here's an example of a two-part talk from the Ninde NPC mod. Spoilers.
In my youth I was sent to one of Waterdeep's most prestigious magical academies, The Seminary of Mystryl. I was never the most dedicated student, however, more pre-occupied by my own burgeoning charm and how to employ it on the sons of my father's business associates, often to great effect. They were noisy, red-cheeked northern boys, who wouldn't look out of place with their backs glistening over fields anywhere in the Heartlands, though naturally had cut-glass elocution and a passion for team sports, fencing and pretty debutantes such as myself.
The courtship was hollow, however. Unlike many of my friends I had no intention of marrying just any muscular lad who scaled my balcony at night with a bunch of white roses; besides, I was to be the inheritor of a powerful trading coster, I didn't need their wealth or their thick shoulders. But I knew men early, and enjoyed being an object of their desires, a daughter of one of Waterdeep's great families.
Little did I know my family, the Amblecrowns, were about to fall into decline. It happened with the death of my adoptive father, Inaed, which I may or may not have told you, plunged me briefly into a torrent of emotions I was unfamiliar with. They broke me. It was just before his death I met Sykre. At a ball at the Prufrock's I was introduced to him; a handsome young man from the Moonsea, poor but beautiful in a grey silk shirt, with long eyelashes, matching scars on his cheeks, and a rapier on his strong flank.
He had fled from Mulmaster, where all spellcasters of a certain power are recquired to join the Cloaks, a militaristic organisation. He had been tortured, a sure aphrodisiac to the naïve young girl. His hands shook when he grasped the stem of a goblet. I was drunk on wine, he on the joy of surviving to hold another woman in his arms, before a window outside which snow fell. He laughed at everything I said, had a teasing foreign lilt on his lips and a fierceness to his movements. I fell asleep and he packed me into a coach back to the Amblecrown manor. I had only the name to remember him by; Sykre D'Alysoss.
I did not think I would see him again, but to my surprise he was hired as a tutor at the Seminary--teaching, naturally, Necromancy. I insinuated my way into his classes to hear that lilting voice, developed a taste for dissections to feel his steady hand guiding my own. Our intimacy was never repeated, however...I'm sure that now he was my tutor, he felt it would be inappropriate. I'd always known when a man desired me, though, and did not give in.
What did you expect, indeed. Like all aspects of my life, my love life was unconventional to say the least. Ahh...I tire of this story. Mayhaps I'll be in the mood to continue tomorrow morning. Until then, rest well, Bhaalspawn.
PART 2: My father died on a balmy Mirtul morning, and my education at the Seminary was suspended. His funeral took place days later, in a mild spring rain, and I stood by the side of his crypt with my brother's hand on my shoulder. Sykre waited for me at a small shrine to Myrkul just outside that boneyard. I broke away from the procession to go there and he pressed a dagger up against my throat. Ordinarily I would've been frightened...but with his body and his face close to mine, his shirt damp and just barely open...
It was one of the most erotic moments of my life. He took me there on the altar. Yes, I know, he took advantage of me. My life...my life became increasingly volatile. Sykre, it transpired, had not merely been an escapee of the Cloaks of Mulmaster, but was a Shadow Mage; one of those who practice their magics on the very edge of the weave. He was a student of the secretive Iron Fang keep, an enclave of such mages most had only heard of in hushed legend.
My brother, Shar watch over his soul, was a businessman of the worst degree, and it was not long before the coster began to falter. As all I had known disintegrated, Sykre drew me deeper into his world; and introduced me to his friends. The Night Hand. They were dark, intoxicating times. My powers grew immensely, fuelled by the desire to impress and match my new compatriots in power. Respen, my brother, saw what I had become involved in but was too pre-occupied to intervene...but...no. The story of my time with the Night Hand is--is something else.
But Sykre...I loved him, in a way. And he certainly was...hmm.
He was hanged not long after the Time of Troubles for the murder of a group of Selunites. Much of the Night Hand met a similar fate. Some escaped, I believe...Nemphre fled to Baldur's Gate, and she may still be alive. Orachus Dilatuvel is undoubtedly still conducting his own one-man rampage in Calimport. Lord Nycticorax bought the authorities off, and still lives in Waterdeep as far as I know. And...and I, of course...he was the only man that ever frightened me.
Now and then I still feel him at my back.
This isn't even the entire thing. Bloated as a blowfish and just as unpleasant to digest. Slim it, don't split it.
I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing, though, if used sparsely. If you're using it to draw things out, that's not good, but it can also be used to keep a dialogue from getting too large and unwieldy. If you've got something important, splitting it in half can give you more time to both introduce it organically and actually wrap it up afterwards. Pack one dialogue with a bunch of different ideas and it will suffer for it.
Sure, but there are better methods than to just suddenly halt the conversation with a line that might as well read "To be continued."
Also, aspiring modders: If dialogue's getting unwieldy, the solution might be to stop writing so many words. Here's an example of a two-part talk from the Ninde NPC mod. Spoilers.
In my youth I was sent to one of Waterdeep's most prestigious magical academies, The Seminary of Mystryl. I was never the most dedicated student, however, more pre-occupied by my own burgeoning charm and how to employ it on the sons of my father's business associates, often to great effect. They were noisy, red-cheeked northern boys, who wouldn't look out of place with their backs glistening over fields anywhere in the Heartlands, though naturally had cut-glass elocution and a passion for team sports, fencing and pretty debutantes such as myself.
The courtship was hollow, however. Unlike many of my friends I had no intention of marrying just any muscular lad who scaled my balcony at night with a bunch of white roses; besides, I was to be the inheritor of a powerful trading coster, I didn't need their wealth or their thick shoulders. But I knew men early, and enjoyed being an object of their desires, a daughter of one of Waterdeep's great families.
Little did I know my family, the Amblecrowns, were about to fall into decline. It happened with the death of my adoptive father, Inaed, which I may or may not have told you, plunged me briefly into a torrent of emotions I was unfamiliar with. They broke me. It was just before his death I met Sykre. At a ball at the Prufrock's I was introduced to him; a handsome young man from the Moonsea, poor but beautiful in a grey silk shirt, with long eyelashes, matching scars on his cheeks, and a rapier on his strong flank.
He had fled from Mulmaster, where all spellcasters of a certain power are recquired to join the Cloaks, a militaristic organisation. He had been tortured, a sure aphrodisiac to the naïve young girl. His hands shook when he grasped the stem of a goblet. I was drunk on wine, he on the joy of surviving to hold another woman in his arms, before a window outside which snow fell. He laughed at everything I said, had a teasing foreign lilt on his lips and a fierceness to his movements. I fell asleep and he packed me into a coach back to the Amblecrown manor. I had only the name to remember him by; Sykre D'Alysoss.
I did not think I would see him again, but to my surprise he was hired as a tutor at the Seminary--teaching, naturally, Necromancy. I insinuated my way into his classes to hear that lilting voice, developed a taste for dissections to feel his steady hand guiding my own. Our intimacy was never repeated, however...I'm sure that now he was my tutor, he felt it would be inappropriate. I'd always known when a man desired me, though, and did not give in.
What did you expect, indeed. Like all aspects of my life, my love life was unconventional to say the least. Ahh...I tire of this story. Mayhaps I'll be in the mood to continue tomorrow morning. Until then, rest well, Bhaalspawn.
PART 2: My father died on a balmy Mirtul morning, and my education at the Seminary was suspended. His funeral took place days later, in a mild spring rain, and I stood by the side of his crypt with my brother's hand on my shoulder. Sykre waited for me at a small shrine to Myrkul just outside that boneyard. I broke away from the procession to go there and he pressed a dagger up against my throat. Ordinarily I would've been frightened...but with his body and his face close to mine, his shirt damp and just barely open...
It was one of the most erotic moments of my life. He took me there on the altar. Yes, I know, he took advantage of me. My life...my life became increasingly volatile. Sykre, it transpired, had not merely been an escapee of the Cloaks of Mulmaster, but was a Shadow Mage; one of those who practice their magics on the very edge of the weave. He was a student of the secretive Iron Fang keep, an enclave of such mages most had only heard of in hushed legend.
My brother, Shar watch over his soul, was a businessman of the worst degree, and it was not long before the coster began to falter. As all I had known disintegrated, Sykre drew me deeper into his world; and introduced me to his friends. The Night Hand. They were dark, intoxicating times. My powers grew immensely, fuelled by the desire to impress and match my new compatriots in power. Respen, my brother, saw what I had become involved in but was too pre-occupied to intervene...but...no. The story of my time with the Night Hand is--is something else.
But Sykre...I loved him, in a way. And he certainly was...hmm.
He was hanged not long after the Time of Troubles for the murder of a group of Selunites. Much of the Night Hand met a similar fate. Some escaped, I believe...Nemphre fled to Baldur's Gate, and she may still be alive. Orachus Dilatuvel is undoubtedly still conducting his own one-man rampage in Calimport. Lord Nycticorax bought the authorities off, and still lives in Waterdeep as far as I know. And...and I, of course...he was the only man that ever frightened me.
Now and then I still feel him at my back.
This isn't even the entire thing. Bloated as a blowfish and just as unpleasant to digest. Slim it, don't split it.
Actually, the writing is okay. Good example of a lengthy exposition that should be better left to a novella that should be (optionally) read just as the player plays with the mod.
It's really not. Like, even aside from being wordy and packed with unnecessary detail, nobody talks like this. "I may or may not have told you that the death of my father plunged me briefly into a torrent of emotions I was unfamiliar with." Come on. Read that aloud.
It's really not. Like, even aside from being wordy and packed with unnecessary detail, nobody talks like this. "I may or may not have told you that the death of my father plunged me briefly into a torrent of emotions I was unfamiliar with." Come on. Read that aloud.
Nothing that a good editor can't salvage. From my experience as an editor, if I read an article, and I have no strong desire to rewrite it, I can bring myself to pass it (I can't fail EVERY one of them!). The rest is polishing.
I remember a publicity article forwarded to me that started with:
"It's a bird! No, it's a plane! No, it's XXXXX!!!"
I spent an hour rewriting that one. This is really not so bad.
It's really not. Like, even aside from being wordy and packed with unnecessary detail, nobody talks like this. "I may or may not have told you that the death of my father plunged me briefly into a torrent of emotions I was unfamiliar with." Come on. Read that aloud.
I'll probably break it up into a dialogue. The content can be largely preserved:
"Have I told you what happened after my father died?"
"No, what about it?"
"It was not easy for me to come to terms with his death. I had to grapple with conflicting emotions..."
If dialogue is inappropriate, probably something along the lines of "When my father died, I had to grapple with conflicting emotions..."
Perhaps I'm just so jaded after reading so much bad stuff that as long as it's salvageable, I'm eager to pass it. LOL.
At the end of the day, one of the most vital elements of a good NPC is how he fits into the current game. He could have the coolest backstory ever, yet feel like the giant pink miniature giant space elephant in the room.
This is one of the reasons creating a mod NPC is a lot more complicated in 2014 than it was in 2002. What is the "current game" these days? There's no right answer to that question, but the existence of EE content, BG1NPC content, tropes which have become heavily entrenched in mods, etc. make this a tricky question.
My standing principle for BG2 design was to never assume other mod content, for what that's worth.
I would be leery of writing a romance for BG1 in general, though, since it's too easy to end up with a complete mess by the time you get to BG2. Taking a character from one game to the other already complicates things a *lot*; adding in an already started romance just makes it worse.
My strong advice for anybody creating a BG1 romance would be to keep it compartmentalized and give it a definitive endpoint--not necessarily with a "forced fight/breakup", there are lots of ways you could tell that story. Something which doesn't necessarily result in the NPC leaving the party, but which makes it clear that the PC and NPC will go different ways after the game ends. Then I would wait until after the Irenicus dungeon to reintroduce that character in body, although it might be interesting to put a romance-related item (Keepsake? Letter received inbetween games?) in the PC's inventory.
That would give the player something to wonder about as they slogged through the very early stages of chapter 1 and 2. And, from a design standpoint, it keeps the writer from feeling as bound to honor a half-dozen possible outcomes from BG1.
It's also a good rule for RL conversation. Show people what you're about - there's little in this world as insufferable as someone who tells you all about him or herself at the drop of a hat.
This is a tricky standard, though, in a game in which the player has a wide swath of authority over the movements and actions of the NPC. Yes, it's possible with some effort to have an NPC override certain "disapproved" actions, but it's not at all easy. We can make Aerie do all sorts of ruthless, horrible things to others even as she laments the cruelty of those who robbed her of flight. So although I agree that a writer cannot count on "moar werds" to make everything better, I can't completely get behind "show me, don't tell me" when the player is actually pulling the strings.
Particularly when the obvious alternative--having the NPC take over an encounter and force through a resolution--can prove so very, very unpopular with players. Definitely something you need to do with caution. Mod NPCs are usually given very little tolerance on this front before the "Mary Sue!" chants start. That's one reason why an NPC-specific quest can be useful, it doesn't feel quite so out of place when the NPC takes charge of the resolution.
A few people mentioned player replies, I forget where (Maybe it was hidden in a spoiler? Why do we do that?) and the flavor thereof. There's absolutely no way for the writer to win here. Even saying "go with Bioware style" isn't a dead lock. It's true that their style favors the principle of being vague and letting the player's imagination flesh out the particulars. On the other hand, players really seem to respond well when characters respond to specific dialogue choices. And Bioware did a lot of
1. Nice reply 2. Neutral reply 3. Nasty reply
which got tedious.
What I would say, however, is that if your think that your NPC has such a narrow range of tolerances that only a very specific PC who only says a very specific range of things could possibly get along with them, you may have a poor design.
@jcompton That is a very interesting post from a person who is clearly experienced at making mods. Thank you!
There is one thing though: I think what @jackjack was trying to say by "show, don't tell" wasn't really about having an NPC "take over an encounter and force through a resolution". I think he meant more that rather than have a character (lets pick a classic television/film archetype) say "I'm a middle aged divorced police officer who is sick of his job, feels unappreciated and just can't take anymore" have that character instead complain about his pension, have a rude disposition and generally act a little rough when questioning a suspect, if you know what I mean.
Nope, you pegged it. Showing through action is good, but pretty difficult without adding in new cutscenes. Context is key, and the best way to develop the NPC, as in the example @booinyoureyes gives above.
There is one thing though: I think what @jackjack was trying to say by "show, don't tell" wasn't really about having an NPC "take over an encounter and force through a resolution". I think he meant more that rather than have a character (lets pick a classic television/film archetype) say "I'm a middle aged divorced police officer who is sick of his job, feels unappreciated and just can't take anymore" have that character instead complain about his pension, have a rude disposition and generally act a little rough when questioning a suspect, if you know what I mean.
Ah, yes, that totally makes sense. It's an easy trap to fall into. Writers--even bad writers--are much better at explaining their wishes, beliefs, desires, etc. in words than other people. It can be difficult to find the right places to pull back on the reins and realize that not only might something be too verbose, but it might be a thought that a character simply cannot and would not be able to articulate.
And the example is a great one, although I have to say that my mind immediately raced to the ultimate exception-that-proves-the-rule, Roger Murtaugh from Lethal Weapon. Sure, the film shows us all the ways in which he is worn out, put-upon, etc. etc. But the most effective of all is when he flat-out tells us, "I'm getting too old for this shit."
Oh, here's another tip: Learn to distinguish between your character's truth and the actual, factual truth, whether that be an established in-game fact, or a fact that you, the writer, are firmly behind even if it is not explicitly stated.
I don't only mean avoiding the trap of having one character run around telling everybody else all of the ways in which they are flawed, mistaken, and deceptive, although that's always worth keeping in mind.
Being wrong doesn't have to be limited simply to positions which are immoral or evil on their face, like Edwin's general "Everybody who is less intelligent than me should be my unquestioning slave, and oh, I guess that means everybody in the world should be my unquestioning slave" stance.
To apply a tangible, in-mod example, in de'Arnise Romance I expand on the backstory of her engagement to Isaea. I, the writer, find Nalia's assertion that she was never really expected to marry Isaea implausible. I let the player, if they wish, construct a pretty compelling argument that Nalia's father would have forced her to marry eventually. But Nalia will never, ever accept that, because it's not her truth.
I feel the best way to know what to do right is to know what not to do. It's not the only way, but it's a start.
In another thread @Rhaella mentioned an idea that I really, really liked: let other NPCs express the correct viewpoint from time to time or have the upper hand.
Nalia's romance has good moments. Aerie tells Nalia that she had to pick him up in a seedy bar, which is a nice way to remind people that Aerie has some awesome moments.
Kelsey Romance, you pull it off well in Anomen's first romance conflict.
Anomen actually gets a 'sick burn' on Kelsey because he answered to his m'lady... and I like that!
I've always wanted to set up a mod review thread where mod analysis is full on, truth be known.
In another thread @Rhaella mentioned an idea that I really, really liked: let other NPCs express the correct viewpoint from time to time or have the upper hand.
Which we would hope would be seen as table stakes by now, but sure, bears repeating.
Nalia's romance has good moments. Aerie tells Nalia that she had to pick him up in a seedy bar, which is a nice way to remind people that Aerie has some awesome moments.
Also one of my all-time favorite lines, so I'm glad people are seeing it and appreciating it!
I know that some people have said "I like a lot of (romance X) but I really don't like when they fight with (NPC Y)." But in my view that misses the point completely.
It is my strongly held opinion that the only way to do the "Bioware-style romance conflict" right is to make both NPCs look bad. People are not at their best when they are jealously squabbling. So, yes, it's important that it's not just the New Guy/Gal getting in all the best shots. Both of them should be saying things that, by sober light of day, they'd probably regret.
And while I think it's perfectly okay for someone to design an NPC and say, "Well, this person doesn't go in for jealous squabbling," that doesn't change the fact that the established romance characters don't need much provocation and should still be allowed to do their own thing, even if the fight is rather one-sided.
One thing about putting NPCs in out of the way places is that it could be dangerous to rush for them. Is your NPC in Spellhold? Better rush out to get them before their levels fall behind then go back and que... oh! Oooohhh. Uh-oh! Oh, well, what's a few drow and mindflayers for my lvl 10 guys with minimal magical weaponry?
It's okay, I got to the Underdark and got my NPC whose highest stat is 15... uh... #worth?
Comments
For a mod, this would mean to give the character a backstory that fits both classes though, and consider that not all players would dual. Xzar makes perfect sense as cleric with the interest in life and death as necromancer. But I can't up with a good reason why Branwen would suddenly become a thief.
For a fighter or thief with high intelligence, for example, there would have to be "moderate" interest in magic. Enough to justify that the NPC says "yup, I'll see where that goes", but also toned down enough to say "I find this interesting, but it's not for me". Someone with enough wisdom to become a cleric should already have ties to a deity, but start out as a "casual believer".
Through reading their forgotten realms wiki page, other classes for this wild elf could include bard and the sorcerer. Going back to the ranger class, a beastmaster, like barbarian, could be interesting due to the class not appearing in any of the original NPCs, and apt because of the wild elves often lacking metal.
This got me thinking of where to meet decent characters in the games, in places that make sense. The one place in the main early BG1 storyline that doesn't have a character associated with it (as in the way Xan and Yeslick are associated with both mining operations) is the Bandit Camp. This would be an ideal location for a rogue character. Maybe one who joined the bandits out of necessity but has become disillusioned with their activities. (pretty cliche)
Or one that had been a leader in a bandit gang that was all but destroyed in the Iron Throne's activities. Maybe he never trusted them, but had to go along because his bad saw profit in it. Now he could join you to get revenge. You get a. a reasonable starting location for this character and b. a reason for him/her to travel with you
Just throwing some ideas out there
IMO, the most critical building block for an NPC mod is the background story. Good stories may lead to good characters, but bad stories will always lead to bad characters
With a good story that is plausible, doesn't force the player to suspend belief, and is relatively easy to rationalize and flesh out, there will be the potential for a good NPC mod. I run through a small group of mod NPCs for comparison:
Saerileth - 15-year old chosen of Tyr whose family is planetouched and lives in Mount Celestia? Who on earth knows how Mount Celestian culture is like, and by extension, their way of life, values, motivations, etc.? Is that alien culture even remotely similar to that on Faerun?
Chloe - Daughter of a goddess (Akadi, goddess of air, but on the page is spelled Akadia). Those who DO know Realmslore (c.f. Faiths and Avatars) will know that the elemental gods are remote and relatively uncaring. Why would such a goddess have anything to do with humans? Even if players don't know the lore, why should a goddess come down to earth and have fun with a man for no apparent reason...
Nathaniel - Former officer of Flaming Fist who left after PC slew Angelo. There were Flaming Fist NPCs who, in Ch.7 in BG, said that they would leave FF before things got worse, so the intention can be corroborated in canon material. It's also a lot easier to flesh out his goals since he's pretty much "normal".
Of these three, Saerileth's back story would be the hardest to write, because nobody knows what on earth Mount Celestia planetouched culture is all about. Chloe is not so bad but still pushes back the borders of plausibility. Nathaniel can actually be based on people we know in RL superimposed on an NPC.
The background also links to the most defining part of the NPC:
Saerileth - Why should she be chosen (of all of Tyr's servants), when Tyr has hardly anything to do with the Bhaalspawn saga, etc. It's basically the creators spinning some yarn and expecting players to lap it all up
Chloe - Orphan is easy to explain away since it erases the background altogether, but if she is promoted as a lesbian romance, then there should be some plausible story why she is so, contravening prevailing culture
Nathaniel - It is not unheard of for military people to be gay, so since he's a member of Flaming Fist, it's not entirely unreasonable for him to be so.
Then the background leads to the personality of the NPC, setting up for some conflict (and drama)
Saerileth - Pursuing a powerful enemy? How does this affect her character? Can this be plausibly linked to her having any character weakness and therefore more human (and identifiable)?
Chloe - Why should she experience any quest to begin with... when she is abandoned and probably doesn't have a reason to make any enemies because of a lack of association? Psychopathy? Loneliness?
Nathaniel - He was dumped by his lover. Common stuff that we can identify with. Insecurity and neediness due to poor constitution, being dumped, these are real things we can see in everyday life.
The list goes on. When the story is properly crafted, the character is more believable, and it's easier to fashion a plausible set of strengths/weaknesses/unique challenges that is less likely to make the NPC steal the limelight. Things like classes, stats, dialogue, are really more technical things that can be worked into the story. Classes can be changed, stats can be buffed or nerfed, dialogue can be added or cut. But an unbelievable story remains an unbelievable story. Thus said, I believe many NPC mods fail because the stories are TOO fantastical. It just "doesn't make sense", giving us the feeling of "fake", "forced" and so on.
The story can also become too fantastical if mod creators start out with some item/quest/type of romance, then try to "construct the story backwards" by making a background that accommodates all the things on their wish list. This will also cause the story to be implausible. The item/quest/romance exist for the story, not the reverse.
As the 2nd Edition AD&D PHB recommends, constructing a believable illusion requires that the illusion is plausible. Push this too far and the illusion is easily broken.
One thing I'd like to add is that I think the main story behind the NPC should be one of three choices:
1. Baldur's Gate
2. Shadows of Amn
3. Throne of Bhaal
Basically the problem you pointed out with Saerilith is one that needs to be avoided for an NPC mod to even be considered playable (imho)
What might constitute a "good backstory" could still make for a terrible NPC in the context of the Baldur's Gate Saga. For example, I think Wulfgar is a pretty cool character and all, but if you made him a joinable NPC it would 9 times out of 10 be a disaster.
At the end of the day, one of the most vital elements of a good NPC is how he fits into the current game. He could have the coolest backstory ever, yet feel like the giant pink miniature giant space elephant in the room.
For someone like Wulfgar, since he already has an existing backstory, fitting him into the BG backstory will require a very good explanation why he's here... And considering he's already been fleshed out pretty thoroughly in the Salvatore books, it's pretty unlikely a typical modder can
"change course".
To conclude my previous post, Nathaniel is the best of the lot, and *potentially* better than many NPC mods out there. The writing isn't fantastic and is somewhat buggy, but with effort, this average mod can be reworked into a good or even great mod, because his story is real (there are gays in real life in whatever era), believable (the PC did leave a mess in BG), and issues arising from insecurity are common to mankind. Resolving his issues and helping him grow out of them will seal the deal, with some balancing of unique items, some improvement in stats to make him dual-ready, and some bug-squishing.
For Chloe, it's hard. For Saerileth, nigh impossible. Because their background stories are already implausible. Chloe may still be rescued if her background involving Akadi is resolved, and it's adequately explained why she is the way she is. Saerileth... Without a complete rewrite, it's not quite possible, since the entire premise of this NPC is unbelievable.
It's a bit too long to copy/paste directly but the link is here: http://forums.gibberlings3.net/index.php?showtopic=15210
1. Believability/Plausibility
2. Suitability/Appropriateness
The rest are mainly preferences.
I also remember many years ago, I played Stonekeep (published by Interplay too) and there was a novella that came with the game pack. If a mod writer is willing to create a mod with more (appropriate) background story fleshed out in a novella, I'd rate the mod more highly. Some elements of storytelling don't translate well across the BG medium and are best left for prose.
Baldur's Gate generally does a decent job of this, showing us the story through actions and some letters, books, etc.
Many mod NPCs are guilty of telling you the majority of their story, proving their rule rather than the exception, when such dialogue only works in certain, typically more intimate instances.
I'll typically write something like this, then revise it a few times until I'm happy with it, and continue playing. LOL. I think I write more than I play.
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We were in deep trouble.
I had thought that after dispatching Prat and his cohorts, we could make our way back to Baldur's Gate and end this madness. But from what I gathered from Diarmid, Sarevok was once again ahead of us. While we were preoccupied with our escape from Candlekeep, Sarevok has already installed enough of his allies in the city to make it too perilous for us to return. How would we be able to right these wrongs that he has wrought?
I was so deeply engrossed in my musings, that I was startled when I felt a hand on my shoulder.
"My friend, you look pensive. What troubles you?", I turned around and saw Kivan, his face furrowed in a look of concern.
* insert discussion with Kivan in dialogue form *
Kivan was right. For good or ill, we have to face off with Sarevok sooner or later. Until we are all dead, he will not let us off, and I have a debt to pay for Gorion's death. Perilous or no, we will go back to the city to deal with Sarevok once and for all. We may be outnumbered, but we have to give this our best shot.
And when we are done, only one of us will emerge from the city alive.
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It makes me cringe in sympathy for the authors of some mods that get bashed so often. I’ve never played the ones that get mentioned the most, only because they didn’t seem like the kind of NPC that I would personally find interesting. But I assume they have their fans or they would have completely disappeared long ago. Trying to appeal to everyone makes a flat feeling NPC. Decide who your target audience is and try to please them, not everyone. I remember what Jayne Ann Krentz said in a foreword to one of her books. She said that she decided a long time ago to write for her fans, not for the critics.
Write an NPC that would appeal to you in your game. If you fall in love with them, then there will be others that do as well. Not everyone, perhaps not even many. But chances are that those who they do appeal to will be delighted that someone put their time and heart into a mod that makes their playing experience more fun.
"Did I ever tell you the story of how I did a thing? No? Okay. *exposition exposition* OH DANG, suddenly I am overcome with sadness/anger/boredom. Guess you'll have to wait for the next lovetalk!"
Don't do that. It's a transparent way of drawing things out.
I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing, though, if used sparsely. If you're using it to draw things out, that's not good, but it can also be used to keep a dialogue from getting too large and unwieldy. If you've got something important, splitting it in half can give you more time to both introduce it organically and actually wrap it up afterwards. Pack one dialogue with a bunch of different ideas and it will suffer for it.
Also, aspiring modders: If dialogue's getting unwieldy, the solution might be to stop writing so many words. Here's an example of a two-part talk from the Ninde NPC mod. Spoilers.
The courtship was hollow, however. Unlike many of my friends I had no intention of marrying just any muscular lad who scaled my balcony at night with a bunch of white roses; besides, I was to be the inheritor of a powerful trading coster, I didn't need their wealth or their thick shoulders. But I knew men early, and enjoyed being an object of their desires, a daughter of one of Waterdeep's great families.
Little did I know my family, the Amblecrowns, were about to fall into decline. It happened with the death of my adoptive father, Inaed, which I may or may not have told you, plunged me briefly into a torrent of emotions I was unfamiliar with. They broke me. It was just before his death I met Sykre. At a ball at the Prufrock's I was introduced to him; a handsome young man from the Moonsea, poor but beautiful in a grey silk shirt, with long eyelashes, matching scars on his cheeks, and a rapier on his strong flank.
He had fled from Mulmaster, where all spellcasters of a certain power are recquired to join the Cloaks, a militaristic organisation. He had been tortured, a sure aphrodisiac to the naïve young girl. His hands shook when he grasped the stem of a goblet. I was drunk on wine, he on the joy of surviving to hold another woman in his arms, before a window outside which snow fell. He laughed at everything I said, had a teasing foreign lilt on his lips and a fierceness to his movements. I fell asleep and he packed me into a coach back to the Amblecrown manor. I had only the name to remember him by; Sykre D'Alysoss.
I did not think I would see him again, but to my surprise he was hired as a tutor at the Seminary--teaching, naturally, Necromancy. I insinuated my way into his classes to hear that lilting voice, developed a taste for dissections to feel his steady hand guiding my own. Our intimacy was never repeated, however...I'm sure that now he was my tutor, he felt it would be inappropriate. I'd always known when a man desired me, though, and did not give in.
What did you expect, indeed. Like all aspects of my life, my love life was unconventional to say the least. Ahh...I tire of this story. Mayhaps I'll be in the mood to continue tomorrow morning. Until then, rest well, Bhaalspawn.
PART 2: My father died on a balmy Mirtul morning, and my education at the Seminary was suspended. His funeral took place days later, in a mild spring rain, and I stood by the side of his crypt with my brother's hand on my shoulder. Sykre waited for me at a small shrine to Myrkul just outside that boneyard. I broke away from the procession to go there and he pressed a dagger up against my throat. Ordinarily I would've been frightened...but with his body and his face close to mine, his shirt damp and just barely open...
It was one of the most erotic moments of my life. He took me there on the altar. Yes, I know, he took advantage of me. My life...my life became increasingly volatile. Sykre, it transpired, had not merely been an escapee of the Cloaks of Mulmaster, but was a Shadow Mage; one of those who practice their magics on the very edge of the weave. He was a student of the secretive Iron Fang keep, an enclave of such mages most had only heard of in hushed legend.
My brother, Shar watch over his soul, was a businessman of the worst degree, and it was not long before the coster began to falter. As all I had known disintegrated, Sykre drew me deeper into his world; and introduced me to his friends. The Night Hand. They were dark, intoxicating times. My powers grew immensely, fuelled by the desire to impress and match my new compatriots in power. Respen, my brother, saw what I had become involved in but was too pre-occupied to intervene...but...no. The story of my time with the Night Hand is--is something else.
But Sykre...I loved him, in a way. And he certainly was...hmm.
He was hanged not long after the Time of Troubles for the murder of a group of Selunites. Much of the Night Hand met a similar fate. Some escaped, I believe...Nemphre fled to Baldur's Gate, and she may still be alive. Orachus Dilatuvel is undoubtedly still conducting his own one-man rampage in Calimport. Lord Nycticorax bought the authorities off, and still lives in Waterdeep as far as I know. And...and I, of course...he was the only man that ever frightened me.
Now and then I still feel him at my back.
This isn't even the entire thing. Bloated as a blowfish and just as unpleasant to digest. Slim it, don't split it.
I remember a publicity article forwarded to me that started with:
"It's a bird! No, it's a plane! No, it's XXXXX!!!"
I spent an hour rewriting that one. This is really not so bad.
"Have I told you what happened after my father died?"
"No, what about it?"
"It was not easy for me to come to terms with his death. I had to grapple with conflicting emotions..."
If dialogue is inappropriate, probably something along the lines of "When my father died, I had to grapple with conflicting emotions..."
Perhaps I'm just so jaded after reading so much bad stuff that as long as it's salvageable, I'm eager to pass it. LOL.
My standing principle for BG2 design was to never assume other mod content, for what that's worth. My strong advice for anybody creating a BG1 romance would be to keep it compartmentalized and give it a definitive endpoint--not necessarily with a "forced fight/breakup", there are lots of ways you could tell that story. Something which doesn't necessarily result in the NPC leaving the party, but which makes it clear that the PC and NPC will go different ways after the game ends. Then I would wait until after the Irenicus dungeon to reintroduce that character in body, although it might be interesting to put a romance-related item (Keepsake? Letter received inbetween games?) in the PC's inventory.
That would give the player something to wonder about as they slogged through the very early stages of chapter 1 and 2. And, from a design standpoint, it keeps the writer from feeling as bound to honor a half-dozen possible outcomes from BG1. This is a tricky standard, though, in a game in which the player has a wide swath of authority over the movements and actions of the NPC. Yes, it's possible with some effort to have an NPC override certain "disapproved" actions, but it's not at all easy. We can make Aerie do all sorts of ruthless, horrible things to others even as she laments the cruelty of those who robbed her of flight. So although I agree that a writer cannot count on "moar werds" to make everything better, I can't completely get behind "show me, don't tell me" when the player is actually pulling the strings.
Particularly when the obvious alternative--having the NPC take over an encounter and force through a resolution--can prove so very, very unpopular with players. Definitely something you need to do with caution. Mod NPCs are usually given very little tolerance on this front before the "Mary Sue!" chants start. That's one reason why an NPC-specific quest can be useful, it doesn't feel quite so out of place when the NPC takes charge of the resolution.
A few people mentioned player replies, I forget where (Maybe it was hidden in a spoiler? Why do we do that?) and the flavor thereof. There's absolutely no way for the writer to win here. Even saying "go with Bioware style" isn't a dead lock. It's true that their style favors the principle of being vague and letting the player's imagination flesh out the particulars. On the other hand, players really seem to respond well when characters respond to specific dialogue choices. And Bioware did a lot of
1. Nice reply
2. Neutral reply
3. Nasty reply
which got tedious.
What I would say, however, is that if your think that your NPC has such a narrow range of tolerances that only a very specific PC who only says a very specific range of things could possibly get along with them, you may have a poor design.
There is one thing though: I think what @jackjack was trying to say by "show, don't tell" wasn't really about having an NPC "take over an encounter and force through a resolution". I think he meant more that rather than have a character (lets pick a classic television/film archetype) say "I'm a middle aged divorced police officer who is sick of his job, feels unappreciated and just can't take anymore" have that character instead complain about his pension, have a rude disposition and generally act a little rough when questioning a suspect, if you know what I mean.
I could be wrong, but maybe Jack will correct me
And the example is a great one, although I have to say that my mind immediately raced to the ultimate exception-that-proves-the-rule, Roger Murtaugh from Lethal Weapon. Sure, the film shows us all the ways in which he is worn out, put-upon, etc. etc. But the most effective of all is when he flat-out tells us, "I'm getting too old for this shit."
I don't only mean avoiding the trap of having one character run around telling everybody else all of the ways in which they are flawed, mistaken, and deceptive, although that's always worth keeping in mind.
Being wrong doesn't have to be limited simply to positions which are immoral or evil on their face, like Edwin's general "Everybody who is less intelligent than me should be my unquestioning slave, and oh, I guess that means everybody in the world should be my unquestioning slave" stance.
To apply a tangible, in-mod example, in de'Arnise Romance I expand on the backstory of her engagement to Isaea. I, the writer, find Nalia's assertion that she was never really expected to marry Isaea implausible. I let the player, if they wish, construct a pretty compelling argument that Nalia's father would have forced her to marry eventually. But Nalia will never, ever accept that, because it's not her truth.
(Whether or not I'm right is another discussion.)
In another thread @Rhaella mentioned an idea that I really, really liked: let other NPCs express the correct viewpoint from time to time or have the upper hand.
Nalia's romance has good moments. Aerie tells Nalia that she had to pick him up in a seedy bar, which is a nice way to remind people that Aerie has some awesome moments.
Kelsey Romance, you pull it off well in Anomen's first romance conflict.
Anomen actually gets a 'sick burn' on Kelsey because he answered to his m'lady... and I like that!
I've always wanted to set up a mod review thread where mod analysis is full on, truth be known.
I know that some people have said "I like a lot of (romance X) but I really don't like when they fight with (NPC Y)." But in my view that misses the point completely.
It is my strongly held opinion that the only way to do the "Bioware-style romance conflict" right is to make both NPCs look bad. People are not at their best when they are jealously squabbling. So, yes, it's important that it's not just the New Guy/Gal getting in all the best shots. Both of them should be saying things that, by sober light of day, they'd probably regret.
And while I think it's perfectly okay for someone to design an NPC and say, "Well, this person doesn't go in for jealous squabbling," that doesn't change the fact that the established romance characters don't need much provocation and should still be allowed to do their own thing, even if the fight is rather one-sided.
It's okay, I got to the Underdark and got my NPC whose highest stat is 15... uh... #worth?