Best class for a no reload BG1+BG2+ToB

MacHurto

Hey guys,

I have never tried it before but somehow I feel like I want to start a no reload game. Forgetting that it is very likely I will die eaten by a wolf somewhere in the sword coast, just wanted to ask for advice

- what class/multi/dual will make the run easiest from level 1 to 30+?
- any pieces of advice other than always scout ahead and run for my life if necessary? Party size? Potions? Other?

Thanks. I will probably open a thread with the diary entries of my charname but fear not: A lone wolf or that assassin in the friendly arm will make sure I dont bore you guys for a very long time

CrevsDaak

I think that Fighter/Mage/Thief is the one that handles the job the best, be aware that sometimes you'll need to drink potions for greater learning success, since you might fail to learn scrolls sometimes and since you can't reload you'll be loosing a scroll.

MacHurto

But will I not be underpowered by end SoA with all the multiclassing? I dont need to do everything myself (wont be a solo run. Or should it be?) but would like to not need my companions for heavy magic lifting as they are expendable.

FinneousPJ

No I agree with F/M. However, if you would like a strictly spellcasting CHARNAME, go with a sorcerer.

Musigny

MacHurto said:

But will I not be underpowered by end SoA with all the multiclassing? I dont need to do everything myself (wont be a solo run. Or should it be?) but would like to not need my companions for heavy magic lifting as they are expendable.

F/M/T is not an optimal choice if you play with a 6 member team.
However if you solo the game (or duo etc...) this makes a lot of sense. You may want to unlock the xp cap though.

JLee

This is pure theory on my part, because I have never succeeded in a no reload run. But, because it is fun to think about, here's my guess:

I'd put a priority on late game survivability rather than ease of BG1.

If you metagame, then I'd vote solo sorcerer. The first few levels will be challenging, but after a certain point there are many ways to ensure you will not take a point of damage. You also level so fast that you become pretty much unstoppable in early SoA.

W/o metagaming, or if you don't know where all the game-ending traps are, I'd vote mage/thief. With this class you have many options for avoiding most of the tricky spots and choosing your battles.

I'd solo for as long as possible or at the very maximum 1 or 2 other NPCs. The XP drain isn't worth the warm bodies, imo.

But, I'll reiterate that I really am only speculating.

Edit: I don't know what difficulty you propose or if any mods are involved, so I'm assuming core/vanilla.

Blackraven

Excellent topic. If you don't mind adding a kit to a multiclass, you could also look into a high CON dwarven berserker/cleric or barbarian/cleric, You'd have lots of HP (especially with the barbarian), regeneration if you want to, the best possible saving throws, rage abilities that'll protect you from almost all status effects, and divine magic which although not as devastating as arcane magic is powerful all the same at the lower levels (hold person, silence, animate dead) and will remain powerful at the higher levels... with low level spells that increase in power upon levelling up, such as DUHM, Amor of Faith, plus powerful high level spells such as devas, aerial servant, blade barrier,plenty of great spells against undead).

As to party size, yes, I think you'll be best off with as few companions as possible, as @JLee mentioned. In my scenario you would be served by robust roguish character, say Monty or Coran, for traps. Arcane magic isn't necessary in BG1; in BG2/TOB you'll probably benfit from one or two extra companions for bouth your arcane magic and thieving needs.

I'm just theorizing here. I've never played one myself.

FinneousPJ

@Blackraven If you're gonna add a kit to a multi, it has to be Kensai/Mage. Kensai bonuses and +1 spell per level, yes please.

Blackraven

@FinneousPJ: Why would you get an extra spell per level for multiing Kensai & Mage? Maybe I'm missing something here? Do you mean it has become possible to combine two kits? Kensai/SpecMage? or Kensai/Wild Mage?

I agree that the Kensage must be powerful indeed (never played one and probably never will due to lack of orginality to my taste), though I reckon that for a very large portion of the game (the entirety of BG1 and part of BG2) you'll be more vulnerable than the Berserker/Cleric or Barbarian/Cleric. The Kensage will be the stronger damage dealer no doubt although a buffed dual-wielding B/Cleric is no joke either, but the B/Cleric has better survivability over the entire trilogy, which I think in a no-reload game is the most essential point.

CrevsDaak

Oh, so silly :P I thought that it was a solo run :I I think that a Dwarven (or Half-Orc, or Human Dual CLass) Fighter/Cleric, with lots of HP, protective buffs and spells, you can raise your dead party members, heal them, protect yourself from almost every single type of attack and offensive spells.
If you want to Kit yourself as a multi class, Priest of Helm or Lathander or Berkserker (Berkserker->Cleric is one of the best combos, but has very little RP, I mean, a berkserker that becomes a cleric...)

jackjack

I say either Dwarven Fighter/Cleric, or Elven Fighter/Mage.
Or human variants, if you simply MUST dual class :P

FinneousPJ

@Blackraven Adding any kit to a multiclass mage adds +1 spell per level. It's a "feature".

Blackraven

@Crevsdaak: you have a point that Lathander and berserking don't seem to go that well together. You might roleplay however that you're a priest of Tempus, or Clangeddin (as a dwarf).

CrevsDaak

@Blackraven yes, but a Berkserker/Priest of Lathander is actually the best kitted multiclass option for Fighter/Cleric (you can't use two kits unless you have the Multi-kit mod that is vanilla BG2 only), anyway it's something I can't imagine.

Blackraven

@FinneousPJ: WHAT?? I'm amazed... I should have noticed this when I ran an elven Swashmage (great multi btw). Oh well you learn something new every day.
I don't necessarily agree with this "feature" though.

MacHurto

I have to admit I have never used anything non human as it seems a bit off they are a bhaalspawn. But hey, there are drows, dragons with full grown dragon kids, fire giants and stuff like that so I guess it is a time travel thing. Will try the fighter/mage elf first. After the first wolf, I will try fighter/cleric dwarf (I just made a cleric run and prefer to avoid another one). The one that gets furthest wins.

Thanks everyone! By the way, please keep discussing about it in case there are more ideas :-)

Blackraven

@Crevsdaak, so with only one kit? Would you recommend Berserker or Lathandrian priest? I guess the berserker (or barbarian) rage is worth more than the boon of Lathander, no?

MacHurto

About berserker/cleric, if dual after Irenicus, it can be that the experimenting opens you up to unlock your divine powers.

For multiclass, a barbarian/cleric half orc can make sense. Same with any dwarf tribe that is a bit violent in nature.

CrevsDaak

@Blackraven it only depends on what you like, actually their bonuses are very similar, if you go dual-class Fighter->Priest of Lathander it will help from the +1 APR from Lathander's Boon to counteract the lack of Fighter HLAs (just change your kit with EEkeeper from None to Priest of Lathander after dual classing, and put your Cleric level at 0).
Berkserker has nice bonuses to make your pre battle buffs casting much shorter, so you can memorize a few offensive spells more, plus, as a dual-class you'll always have a better fighter counterpart at high levels (at low levels dual-class will go over a multi-class).
The best level to dual-class (personally for me) it's 13, since you get the Prof from lvl12 AND the half APR from lvl13, but maybe if you are soloing you would like to take off the XP cap since it won't let you reach lvl40 as a cleric.

Blackraven

Ok, interesting, I'm not much of a dual-classer myself. I prefer shadowkeepered kitted multiclasses. In this case I'd go with dwarf for the great saving throws. The only thing I don't like so much is havig to play a generic cleric, lacks flavor IMO.

Lemernis

Fighter/Thief, Fighter/Mage, and Cleric/Thief are all very strong choices imho.

Personally, I prefer multiclass hands down to dualclassing, because I want to enjoy both sets of class skills for the whole game. You level a bit slower, it's true. But (imo) that's well worth it for not losing the original class skills for a third of the game (plus having to start at level 1 in the new class). You'll be god-like powerful by the end as either a multi or dualed character.

I mean, if you prefer dualing I'm not trying to convince you otherwise, that's a matter of personal preference. Just stating mine FWIW.

If you do multi-class, should you aesthetically prefer the human sprite, lore-wise half-elves can sometimes pass for human; so you could create a half-elf and use Shadowkeeper to change the appearance to human even though the class is still half-elf. Of course elves gain some bonuses that half-elves don't. So from a more utilitarian versus RP-driven perspective elf is a stronger choice.

And of course there are other races to consider for multis that are loads of fun in their own right. (Half-orc for Cleric/Thief is one my favorites.)

lunar

Berserker dualled into mage will be a sound character, I think. At low levels berserker is very durable and can survive almost anything bg1 offers. Mage spells are the way to go for power in bg2 ofcourse, and berserk ability is just wonderful:with it you never get caught defenseless against a horrible disabling effect or level drain or such.

mumumomo

1- solo is 10 times easier than in a group. In BGEE, items (wands, potions) are more important than character class. Therefore keeping everything for 1 character makes thing much easier.
In SOA the added xp with 8mxp caps completely breaks the difficulty curve. In TOB, your character will anyway be extremely strong (especially arcane casters)

2- the most powerful class is hands down the sorceror. By the mid of soa you are level 18 and become a walking god on earth. Getting there is actually quite easy IF you know the game very well.


3- Other strongs contenders include F/M (multi illusionist or berserker/mage dual) and FMT. FMT is probably the easiest over the whole course of the game and requires the less knowledge of the game (since you don't have to know traps), However it ends up "weaker" than a FM or a sorceror

SCARY_WIZARD

I want to say Thief, and dual over to Cleric when you feel confident enough in your Thieving Abilities...
Of course, Fighter/Magic-User/Thief, and Magic-User/Thief are recommended. Still, I like the prospect of sanctuary + unlocking/disarming traps and stealing All of the Things.

Blucher

I've done this twice*, out of countless attempts, with a thief/illusionist and a cleric/mage. Being able to cast spells, esp. mage spells is really really useful. Just don't play tired and don't leave anything up to chance -- research everything. Take advantage of every little "exploit" you can, because you will need them. (My only house rule is no force-talk.)

I've been trying, off and on (mostly off) for years with some variation of single-classed thief or fighter/thief, without success. I've been more motivated to play lately with the EEs though. Luck is a big part of it, honestly, no matter how hard you try.

If you are going with a party, it shouldn't matter too much what you play. Just protect Charname at all costs. Your party members are ultimately expendable.

*EDIT: BG2 only. Got close once with a thief/illusionist in BG1.

MacHurto

Ok, did a first run and died in the friendly arm inn. It seemed like the right path to take straight away RP wise. However, that wizard's magic missile kills a lv1 character on a heartbeat.

Do you have a recommended path to take so you can level up more or less fast and not risking too much? Will try another fighter/mage called ElDelGas this time. And give him a bow and not dual wield.

Blucher

@MacHurto‌ My current game (so far so good, at level 8) is a solo halfling single-class Thief. I put all of my initial points in Set Trap and rest-trap, rest-trap over and over in the first map outside of Candlekeep killing Gibberlings until I got to level 2. Did the same thing in nearby maps, plus quested a bit, until level 3. At level 3 I moved up to the Ankheg map and did the same until level 5 or 6 (can't remember), occasionally going to Bergost to sell a shell and gems/jewelry for money. Once I got to level 6, I started playing more-or-less normally, though still relying of traps heavily.

Some variation of that could work with a number of characters. Thalantyr's Wand of Sleep is also a very important item early on. I almost always buy it and re-charge that wand at least once, and use the heck out of it.

Tarnesh isn't too bad, nor are the other early spell casters. Just initiate dialogue and when they start casting, jump through a doorway (Garl Glittergold's temple for instance). Keep doing that until they've spent all of their spells.

JLee

Strict roleplaying will make this challenge impossible IMO. There are too many ambushes/fatal traps that must be metagamed. Hey, what's in this door? Oh a lich, beholder, vampire, and a mage casting gate/time stop.

Not that you can't have fun, mind you. I had a great deal of fun with the 75 roll no reload challenge. One of the conditions of that challenge is to strictly roleplay. I don't know if anyone has beat BG1 or not (haven't checked thread for a while). I once made it to outside Cloakwood Mines with a C/T. That threads makes for fun reading!

A great place to get XP is the basilisk zone east of the Temple. Korax the ghoul is immune to petrification and will help you clear them out. Just make sure you land the killing blow and that Korax draws their hostility. You can get a lot of levels in that one, but make sure you are protected or that Korax leads the way. Just be ready for him to turn hostile after a while.

lunar

Tarnesh is doable, if you have Shield or Remove Fear spells he is pretty much neutralised. A lucky command spell or spook spell or blindness spell will finish him too.

In a no reload, you always have to have a clear plan and path, you should never venture randomly or risk anything. Example:Do not melee ghouls/ghasts if you don't have:-free action spell or item -base save vs death of 1 or lower. Even meleeing them with a character who has -20 ac and save vs death of 3, is SUICIDE. One ghast can score a critical hit, (and they have very good number of attacks, good old claw/claw/bite routine) and you can roll a 1 or 2 on your save and that is game over.

Another example:Do not fight tough spellcasters unless you have skills and/or items to neutralise their powers. Greenstone amulet helps against charm/confusion/held. Shield of Harmony and Reflection Shield are two musts to have to play no-reload, and you should swap the shields accordingly. Even swap to dragon shield for elemental resistances when necesary. (say, you see a fireball coming up your way)

Or if you can rage to make yourself immune to mind affecting stuff and insta-death, go for it. High elemental resistance gear/potions will help against the occasional fireball (or Dragons Breath, if you play ToB with scs) Magic shielding/protection potions and protection from magic scroll are sureways to breeze through a spellcaster. If you don't have an innate immunity or skill to prevent most of the spells, you should get items that grant them as soon as possible, before risking fighting any mage worths his salt. You can have 5 attacks/round with awesome damage, but a mage will lock you out of the combat via Chaos spell and finish you up with a Finger of Death. Never risk it. You can get lucky one time, but in a no reload you can not-should not-put your fate into Lady Luck's hands.

Blackraven

Also, if you go the fighter/mage route, why no try a gnomish fighter/illusionist? Better intelligence, spcialist mage with extra spell per level, better saves. Although apparently if you kit the fighter part (to berserker or kensai) using EE-/Shadowkeeper, the game gives you the extra spell per level as well.
I solo'ed a F/I for pretty much all of BG1 and a big part of BG2, with no reloads. I think he fell in the improved (SCSII?) Shadelord battle in the Umar Hills. I played minimal reload after that.
I would go directly to High Hedge, walk directly to the east till you reach the NE corner of the area, from there you can go south (and escape directly to Beregst if necessary) till you unlock Bassilus's area. Go to Basssilus's area and kil the wolf in the North east use Sleep or Blindess + ranged attacks. Melicamp will come to you whom you may get restored to his human form by Thalantyr for 2000XP (there's a risk of failure of course.) Beregost is good for about 3000 'easy' XP: Marl, Firebead, 4 huge spiders, (just step outside, pause, and move your character outside the yard, the slow spiders will follow you and you can take them on with your bow), Ogrillons/Mirianne; Karlat is doable with ranged though may take some time as he has decent armor class for a low level player. Many go west to the Northen coast where Shoal the Nereid, who has no ranged attack (unless you have mods installed in which case she might have a 'beguiling stare' i.e. charm), is worth 5000 XP. The basilisk area has already been mentioned.
It's good to grab some easy XP early on, so you minimize your dependence on luck... With a few levels under your belt, you're a bit more durable. From then on, you could go back to more plausible roleplaying (which I also really like to do with my charnames).

MacHurto

@blackraven gnomish fighter/illusionist it is. Given I make it past my second wolf and reach BG2 I can romance Aerie. What is good about extra Int?

Will follow that path and see. Which school do I lose? Necromancy? Any good spells I lose?