Please remove level cap in BG1

RedWizards

Yep.

I like to cheat, and I intend on playing BG as a level 20 sorcerer that summons divas.

There's a mod that disables level cap in TuTu, but I doubt it will work for the new bg.

So, I was curious if developers could be gracious enough to remove level caps.

EDIT: For those who might oppose this, why not have an "option" to disable XP cap? Why deny me the joy of playing the game as a level 20 sorcerer?



Cordially

The (shameless) Cheater

O_Bruce

I've heard that increase of level cap is planned. Thought I think that removing it would be too much.

As for mod, just wait for it. I'm pretty sure BG:EE will make modding community pretty wild, considering that Enhaced Edition will be more mod-friendly than original BG.

Cheesebelly

Theoretically speaking, removing the cap SHOULDN'T be that hard even for a tech noob like me (mind you, I did have a course of programming the first year of university, BUT THAT IS NOT THE POINT)

I don't really see why not have the cap removed. Powerplayers would rejoice, and normal players... wouldn't feel that much of an impact. A 6 party member party (redundant redundancy FTW) would still hit only about 250 K XP by the end of BG1 anyway. That's probably gonna be the new cap in the first place! (would make sense, plenty of classes could level up that way)


PS - planetars... sorcerers can only summon planetars

Sceptenar

RedWizards said:

Yep.

I like to cheat, and I intend on playing BG as a level 20 sorcerer that summons divas.

Summoning divas huh? Well, the game won't end until the fat lady sings...

Leronis

It's been a long time since I played BG, but I do fondly remember the solo run (no companions). There you do rely on the PC getting all the XP and thus being at a higher level than a comparable party. It would be nice if the solo player remains feasible at the endgame.

Kithrixx

I'd be cool with an increase, but not a removal. Sarevok is supposed to be a serious challenge, not something you can cakewalk if you grind enough (or cheat).

bigdogchris

@RedWizards - I don't agree with that at all. BG1 is balanced around a very specific level cap so removing it would really throw off the games balance. Plus, I plan on importing the characters into BG2:EE, so there would be the issue of balance there as well.

Illustair

Even without the level cap, I don't think you can gain enough exp to reach a level that would make Sarevok a cakewalk. Unless of course you cheat, but that's their choice. I do like the reasoning of @Cheesebelly - that is, powergamers can rejoice, and hardly any impact for normal players.

taletotell

I tend to build up as much xp as I can. I would like to be able to come to Sarevok as an equal. I tend run 4 characters to a party too so he always has me outnumbered anyway. Let me beef up a little to take care of that.

pablo200783

Baldur's Gate Trilogy remove BG1 level cap and set BG2 level it was not big deal 1 or 2 level bonus i dont think it will be overpower if BG1 EE change rules disarm traps and learn spells also schould give experience.

Avenger_teambg

It is irrelevant, you can set the xp cap manually.

xLegionx

Oh man I hope they introduce more levels. I prefer to remain a "normal" leveling dude before ascending into the godhood levels which is 21-30. 21-30 should be when you are learning the full mastery of your class and 31-40 should be godhood levels imo. And no, I disagree with their being no level cap because it would make things...unbalanced.

Medillen

I don't mind if the xp is a big higher, of one level, maybe two. But no more, some like to farm xp like crazy. Don't break the game's fun :-) Or make it an option you can change in the UI, like "expert options-> no xp cap".

Drugar

Let's take a look at the experience tables for a few classes:

Level Fighter Paladin/Ranger Mage/Specialist
1 0 0 0
2 2,000 2,250 2,500
3 4,000 4,500 5,000
4 8,000 9,000 10,000
5 16,000 18,000 20,000
6 32,000 36,000 40,000
7 64,000 75,000 60,000
8 125,000 150,000 90,000
9 250,000 300,000 135,000
10 500,000 600,000 250,000
11 750,000 900,000 375,000

The game currently stops at 161.000 xp, so fighters and paladins are level 8, wizards are level 9. Removing the cap would give one level, max, unless the game gives triple the experience you need to hit the cap (in which case the level cap is really misplaced anyway, since half your adventuring will apparently teach you nothing).
Another Fighter level will give another Proficiency point, 1d10hp and +1 (or -1 I guess?) thac0. Pretty good but drinking a potion of fire giant strength is argueably stronger. It doesn't completely outbalance the final fight.

I don't like level caps for the reason that they arbritrarily stop character growth and make it feel pointless to progress in any other direction than straight to the end fight.
People cheating to blast through Sarevok at level 20 is not an issue to me, if you're gonna cheat but the XP cap stops you, using Shadow Keeper to give everyone all 25's is another way. Cheaters will win regardless.

I vote for removing the cap. The exponential growth of levelling will keep the growth in check regardless of caps.

killingwithasmile

Agreed. I was really bummed out when I was about to solo run my mage when I realized I wasn't getting anymore XP. @Drugar is right, feels pointless to continue to play with a CHAR that isn't developing at all. You work hard enough the first time through to get your character strong to only realize that there is zero potential to become a speedy missile slinging wizard like your foster father.

ajwz

Completely agee. There is absolutely no way to get more than about a level abouve the existing cap anyway in game, but It can be frustrating to get 2/3rds of the way through the game and realise that nothing you can do matters any more- no more experience and magic items won't carry over to bg2. You may as well export your character and switch to bg2 straight away when this happens.
This is why some many people don't bother to kill sarevok on their playthroughs.

mch202

Maybe an Option under "Game Play" to remove exp cap, with a warning that this option will make the game easier and unbalanced, just so people wont mess up with 'xp cap remover' mods or for people who want soloing

Ken

Drugar said:

I don't like level caps for the reason that they arbritrarily stop character growth and make it feel pointless to progress in any other direction than straight to the end fight.

Just how I felt the first time my mage reached his level cap.. Ruined the game quite a bit!

Shin

I agree with Drugar. You can pretty much consider BG soft-capped in practice already as experience rewards don't significantly increase until you enter BG2. No need to apply a strict exp or level limit on top of that.

mlnevese

I agree also. I'll do EVERY quest I can find on every run of the game, and hate to see my party not getting any XP for my efforts.

To me it's as artificial as games that set a level requirement for equipment, although I understand its need on a multiplayer game, mainly MMOs...

Silence

First and foremost, I don't really need the XP cap removed - modders will do this for us. God bless them.

I don't have a problem with the cap being removed. There is another possibility that might be a good solution: What about making Sarevok scaled to level? That way the XP cap doesn't matter for the fight (mind you, the rest of the game is still easy-peasy). That's kind of a Skyrim thing to do. And probably a lot of work for the BGEE team, also.

My thinking is that, with all these kits and tips and tricks added to BG1, we're going to see a tougher Sarevok anyway. He was never balanced for an Archer firing three acid arrows per round at +3/+3 bonus. Semaj was never prepared for all the traps that sprung on the ground beneath him.

Illustair

I don't want to wait for a mod for something like this. 5 months, 1 year, 3 years? Will we just wait for something that might not even happen? It's not like it will take so much time for game devs to remove exp cap. There's practically no point in issuing an exp cap the way I and many others (majority) see it.

sarevok57

@mch202 i completely agree with that, i would hate to have it where the level cap was automatically disabled, i actually enjoy the level cap im in it more for the challenge rather than getting powerfully out of control, and that would be perfect anyway, you could have a game where you can have a level capped party, and then maybe play solo and take the level cap off and then go back to having a level capped party again, but just disabling it altogether? nah thats too much, but having it as an option, mayhaps in the configuration menu or some such would be allright in my book

Boaster

Level cap of 13 levels in BG1 would be great, without going too far.

Being evil requires being more powerful than any other opponents, otherwise you're easily smashed.

killingwithasmile

Also, we have to take in account that the mage will need more spells to be able to acquire... Im pretty sure in BG1 the highest spell you can learn is Lv 6. so if there was no XP cap, it would almost be pointless for the mage without being able to learn Higher level spells.

@Silence I hate the idea of monsters and even bosses that level up with you. I can see your point, not wanting Sarevok to be a walk in the park, but I always had the idea in mind of meeting my fellow brother 1 on 1, bhaalspawn v bhaalspawn.

Drugar

Boaster said:

Level cap of 13 levels in BG1 would be great, without going too far.
Being evil requires being more powerful than any other opponents, otherwise you're easily smashed.

Level 13 would require far over a million XP, which is about 6-7 times as much as you can find in BG1. It's also far more powerful than the game requires, you'll be slinging around lvl7 spells. You're plenty powerful enough by the time you get to Sarevok, evil or not.

killingwithasmile said:

Also, we have to take in account that the mage will need more spells to be able to acquire... Im pretty sure in BG1 the highest spell you can learn is Lv 6. so if there was no XP cap, it would almost be pointless for the mage without being able to learn Higher level spells.

At level 9, the max level for wizards in BG1, you get 1-2 lvl5 spells. There were 5-6 of them in the game. Increasing the level cap to anything below 375.000 xp would keep level 6 spells out of the game.

evil_ape

A lot of people seem to have it wrong, there is no level cap in the BG-series, just an XP cap. Raising the XP cap would make multi- and dual-class characters more overpowered than they already are, it would make little difference for full-size parties and it would make solo sorcerers receive Death Spell.

Removing the level cap is not an option, and even raising it brings problems. As I said about the Sorcerers, at 750k XP they become level 12 and receive level 6 spells, where Death Spell is the obvious choice, since it would probably kill everything in the game, except certain boss characters and maybe enemies in Durlag's Tower.

So, raising it just a little, like to give every class one extra level, is also hard. Ranger and Paladin gain their next level at 300k, but that would make the druid level twice (200k and 300k) and MC and DC would benefit a lot more than single characters, gaining 2 or 3 additional levels.

Raising the XP cap breaks the balance of BG1 a lot more than doing it in BG2. It's not something that should go in the release. This is definitely something you should modify yourself.

Aside from all this, we do not know how the new file structure looks like, but editing the XP cap yourself in the original BG1Tutu is extremely easy, just open /override/XPCAP.2DA in a text editor. I find it hard to believe that they would have made it very much harder with BGEE, as Trent has said that they would try to keep it easily modable.

Humanoid_Taifun

1. Scale-to-level. This is one of the most disgusting features I have ever encountered in games. I remember my first time seeing it, in Morrowind, when it suddenly hit me that while I was capped at 100 points (for any weapon or attribute), my enemies continued to become stronger as I leveled up further, meaning that I effectively became weaker as my level increased. (and then I was shown how easily a level 1 character can finish the game) I don't want that for Baldur's Gate. I don't want to be afraid of the level-up button.

2. Imbalancing the game. I do not think that is an issue. The amount of XP you can gather in BG1 is miniscule when compared to BG2. Yes, you'll have a starting bonus when importing a 350k XP guy instead of a 161k XP guy, but the new cap is 8M (and 6.5M can be reached without any exploits). 200k suddenly looks a whole lot less impressive. This might be a different matter for dualclassers. As for Baldur's Gate 1, 1 or 2 more levels for groups is not going to amount to much. Yes, solo players will get a much better benefit out of it. But they are unbalancing the game already. The game is designed to work for parties and going solo has always unbalanced things. That has always been so, beginning with the original BG1, over BG2, but most importantly with BG2+ToB, where you could curbstomb everything as a demigod (until the enemies slowly started to catch up with you again near the very end). Asking for solo-runs to be balanced is asking for a different game. It's not going to happen.

Yes, I favor a game without the XP cap too. (by the way, I know for a fact that BG2 has a hardcoded level cap of 50)

inwe

I vote for removing the cap too, if you want to make some XP to rise your level is up to you, so if the game is easier… What's the problem?, you invested more time killing and doing quests to get more XP, but this is your choice, not mandatory.

evil_ape

inwe said:

I vote for removing the cap too, if you want to make some XP to rise your level is up to you, so if the game is easier… What's the problem?, you invested more time killing and doing quests to get more XP, but this is your choice, not mandatory.

No, it's the other way around. If you want to play the game at intended difficulty regarding character levels, you should not be forced to stop leveling up just because some people don't want to mod the game themselves to remove the XP cap.

Illustair

@evil_ape my english must truly be very limited (not my native language), I don't get what you mean. Hold your horses, though, I just seriously don't...no offense intended. Can you please explain that in another way?