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[MOD][BETA] Tome and Blood: More Options for Wizards and Sorcerers

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Comments

  • RolandoArnimanRolandoArniman Member Posts: 11
    Jarinex said:

    Tried installing with EET tonight, and most of the mod worked, except the magus and the revenant soul kits. Heres the errors I saw and the debug.

    I've got the same problem, for me Favoured Soul and Sylvan Disciple are installed without problems while Revenant, Amorphous Disciple and Magus encouter errors you've mentioned.

    I'm using the latest release of the mod.
  • ZaghoulZaghoul Member Posts: 1,684
    Next on the weird list. With only the spell tweaks option added, it changes armor and helmet use for bards, that's without the armored spell casting for bards option added. Lets them wear helmets, any armor, and removes bards from the can't use list on the item descriptions.

    Actually, does the same for mages, helmet and armor use.
  • AquadrizztAquadrizzt Member Posts: 747
    Core component required for all other components does that. It is to make sure that things like Magus can work properly. It does not allow spellcasting while wearing armor.
    Zaghoul
  • XavioriaXavioria Member Posts: 869
    Hi there, love the mod ideas, went to try the Magus because it is something I've always wanted, and ran into a bit of a problem, used big world setup so that i wouldn't screw something up but i think i did anyways. On character creation, the spells i can choose are ALL grayed out so i don't get the chance to choose any spells whatsoever and upon character level up I don't even get a screen to choose any spells at all. I pretty much just look like a mage who never learned anything in school.

    I backtracked to see if this issue was solved, and I think at some point it was, but I couldn't quite pin point where it was, so I'm sorry if this is something you've dealt with already.

    I'm almost sure it's a mod that's getting in its way since not many people are having this issue. If there are any pointers at what i can do to fix this issue, I'm all ears. I tend to be all over the forums for mod help anyways because i'm always screwing something up XD
  • AquadrizztAquadrizzt Member Posts: 747
    @Xavioria, did you also install Spell Selection Dialog? If so, there should be an innate ability in your special abilities bar called Spell Knowledge (scroll + quill icon).
  • XavioriaXavioria Member Posts: 869
    @Aquadrizzt AND there it is, of course it was something i was overlooking, lol not even a bug XD thank you for the help, I almost thought my idiot self wouldn't be able to enjoy your wonderful work.

    Thanks for the help and I'm sorry about the waste of time XD
  • RolandoArnimanRolandoArniman Member Posts: 11
    Tried the mod again on a clean BG:EE install. Here are the results.


  • RolandoArnimanRolandoArniman Member Posts: 11
    And here's what happens when I try to install these classes separately.
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 7,813
    I might as well report that when I tried to install only the Spell Tweaks, that component had an error for a missing resource. Installing Revised Specialists first allows Spell Tweaks to go in. Seems there is a dependency we missed. I'll look into it when I get a chance.
  • GawainBSGawainBS Member Posts: 322
    No offense, but what is the point of the Magus if he still has Sorcerer THAC0? His melee proficiencies won't help him a lot...
  • hippofanthippofant Member Posts: 29
    edited October 15
    Hi,

    scroll_list_sr.tpa seems to be out of sync with spell_list_sr.tpa. In particular, a lot of necromancy spells got changed to other schools (Wail of the Banshee, Horrid Wilting, etc) but their scrolls have not.

    Also, the component that allows for wizards being able to use all weapons/armors/shields/helmets, I see that it's because of the Magus kit, but this is a very dramatic change for the class, letting Mages cast with helmets on without penalty. And there's a conflict with Item Revisions' Allow Spellcasting in Armor component, since IR allows you to cast with armor on, but then your mod seems to disable it again - I am not entirely sure where; I can't find it in the tp2 files, but looking at my mod install backups, it definitely seems to be TnB doing it.
  • GawainBSGawainBS Member Posts: 322
    GawainBS said:

    No offense, but what is the point of the Magus if he still has Sorcerer THAC0? His melee proficiencies won't help him a lot...

    Really curious about this. I really like the concept, probably my favourite Pathfinder class, but I don't see it work in IE games...
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 7,813
    I mean, what's the concept? The armor and melee power of a fighter, with the spellcasting power of a sorcerer? Why would any sorcerers not wear armor? Why would any fighters not cast spells?

    It sounds like a complaint about balance, but it's really about "how does this concept fit and make sense in the context of the game world?"
  • GawainBSGawainBS Member Posts: 322

    I mean, what's the concept? The armor and melee power of a fighter, with the spellcasting power of a sorcerer? Why would any sorcerers not wear armor? Why would any fighters not cast spells?

    It sounds like a complaint about balance, but it's really about "how does this concept fit and make sense in the context of the game world?"

    Yeah, and what about if that character can't hit the broadside of a barn due to his low THAC0? We already have the Fighter/Mage & Bard for the concept you describe. Am I misjudging his capacity to actually employ that melee power to some effect?
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 7,813
    GawainBS said:

    I mean, what's the concept? The armor and melee power of a fighter, with the spellcasting power of a sorcerer? Why would any sorcerers not wear armor? Why would any fighters not cast spells?

    It sounds like a complaint about balance, but it's really about "how does this concept fit and make sense in the context of the game world?"

    Yeah, and what about if that character can't hit the broadside of a barn due to his low THAC0? We already have the Fighter/Mage & Bard for the concept you describe. Am I misjudging his capacity to actually employ that melee power to some effect?
    I don't know. I didn't make this. And I've never played it even read any games involving this Magus class. I suppose the concept might be something like, offensive melee capability is no better than any sorcerer, but the ability to wear armor lets you tank better than other sorcerers.

    My general point is, you seem to be asking a lot of questions that imply you ave an opinion about the kit presented in this mod, but you haven't come right out and stated what your opinion is. Asking "why is this sorcerer kit's thac0 so low??" Is only like to result in an answer like, "because it's a sorcerer and sorcerers have low thac0."

    Directly giving opinions and suggestions might be a better way to create productive discussion.

  • GawainBSGawainBS Member Posts: 322
    No, that's not the intention. Don't put words into my mouth. I see a kit which diminishes the sorcerer's prime ability in a severe way and grants armour proficiencies (which is nice, granted) and melee weapon proficiencies. Now I wonder: with a mage THAC0, what would you intend to hit with those melee weapons? That's an honest question, which was directed not at you in particular, but in general. That might be that the creator thought "oh, cool!" or "those proficiencies will help the sorcerer cut through the chaff and save his spells for the big dudes".

    I tremendously respect your modding work and your willingness to listen to other players in that regard, but you sure have a short fuse. If you don't know the answer to a question, offer a tentative answer, or keep silent. That also leads to more productive discussion.
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 3,423
    @GawainBS Its incredibly difficult to infer tone and intent from a message board post. Its not entirely fair to assume someone is taking a combative tone.
    Jarinexineth
  • JarinexJarinex Member Posts: 20
    edited October 18
    I don't see the magus as some kind of fighting tank, but a caster with armor to protect them. Maybe they can also do some melee if they get cornered, but maybe they rely on their spells more. Maybe that's why it's sorcerers thaco.

    Also, I don't really see any tone from SDs post. You did seem a little vague at first on what you were trying to say ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    Edit: going off of the comparisons to bards and mage/fighters, with bards they only get up to a certain spell level and fewer casts. At the same time mage/fighters have to have more xp to level seeing they are multiclass. The Magus gets the best of both worlds: having the ability to cast more spells than a bard but having some ability to wear armor and not have to get as much xp as a multiclass like mage/fighter.
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 7,813
    edited October 18
    GawainBS said:

    you sure have a short fuse. If you don't know the answer to a question, offer a tentative answer, or keep silent. That also leads to more productive discussion.

    Was literally only trying to help you clarify what, exactly, you are asking. Because honestly, this:
    GawainBS said:

    Now I wonder: with a mage THAC0, what would you intend to hit with those melee weapons?

    ...I don't get.

    EDIT - maybe this gets to what you are asking:
    Jarinex said:

    I see the magus as ... a caster with armor to protect them.

  • JarinexJarinex Member Posts: 20
    edited October 18
    I would play around with a Magus sometime, but as I mentioned previously, they seem to not install at the moment (when using the EET install). Hopefully that gets fixed soon (and whenever I can find time to play anyway :P)
  • marcialhdmarcialhd Member Posts: 20
    edited October 18
    i installed Enhanced Edition Trilogy recently and i installed this mod alongside it, but i noticed that only some components are working, granted i can only talk for those components i use so i do not know if anything else is broken, first for some reason the "revised dragon disciple" component do not seem to be working at all, the kits do not appears in the menu of EET, in fact with that component installed when you choose the sorcerer class it skips the choose a kit part and automatically assigns you the base sorcerer class as your kit, for the "arcane crafting" component it does not alter the description in the character creation, for some reason sorcerers can scribe scrolls (this also happened to me in the normal game so its not a problem only with EET), triple multiclasses outright do not have arcane crafting but aside from that it still works as intended, and at last the "innate find familiar" seems to be working normally in fact is the only one that do not seems to be bugged in any way.

    if anyone knows how to fix this please tell me i would be very grateful.
  • GawainBSGawainBS Member Posts: 322
    Alrihht, that answers my question, thanks! Subtledoctor, no hard feelings. ☺
    subtledoctor
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 7,813
    GawainBS said:

    Subtledoctor, no hard feelings. ☺

    Of course not! It's all good :wink:
  • Mantis37Mantis37 Member Posts: 422
    Hello, I was just doing a BWS install from the latest download, but some components did not install. Sorcerer kits did not install due to the report: "Cannot append column-wise because there are 54 lines in WEAPPROF.2DA but I was only given 53 things to append".
  • marcialhdmarcialhd Member Posts: 20
    edited October 23
    i just tried the mod again today this time with a clean BG:EE instalation, but i noticed that the arcane crafting skill for some reason seems to be unavailable for multiclass characters: fighter/mage, mage/thief, cleric/Mage, fighter/mage/thief and Fighter/mage/cleric all of them seem to lack this skill, is this intentional or a bug? because i remember being able to use it on my fighter/mage on a past version of the mod.
  • LordofBonesLordofBones Member Posts: 12
    I feel that people are overthinking the entire concept of necromancy. It's just another school of magic, albeit one that's somewhat morbid. The Complete Book of Necromancers references things that are never touched on again, like Thasmudyan (he's been entire supplanted by Velsharoon as Faerun's necromantic patron).

    I like necromancy; it's my favorite school of magic. But ToB is trying too hard to push the concept of a necromancy being a separate branch of bad juju, which it isn't.
    ThacoBell
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 7,813
    edited October 24

    I feel that people are overthinking the entire concept of necromancy. It's just another school of magic, albeit one that's somewhat morbid. The Complete Book of Necromancers references things that are never touched on again, like Thasmudyan (he's been entire supplanted by Velsharoon as Faerun's necromantic patron).

    I like necromancy; it's my favorite school of magic. But ToB is trying too hard to push the concept of a necromancy being a separate branch of bad juju, which it isn't.

    I don't really agree. Or at least, I don't think I have to agree. You can think of necromancy as a mildly different flavor of the same juju; but there are plenty of different conceptions of it as a distinct and very different kind of juju. I mean magicians can do all sorts of funky stuff, but it seems to me that applying that magic to life and death bodies and souls, is a different and special application.

    Also consider that in 1E, illusion magic was set up as a distinct and very different kind of magic. In 3E, 'shadow magic' was set up similarly.

    Which concept is used is always up to the creator; that can mean the game dev, or in the case of mods, the modder(s).

    In any event, if I ever get around to revising the Revised Specialists component, I'll probably do away with the "nobody can do necromancy" thing. I have some wild new ideas that I want to try if I can:

    1) Start out only able to use one or two schools of magic, and then choosing a new school to learn every few levels. Maybe add other abilities/buffs as alternative feats, so you can decide to build your character with a tight focus on a few schools, and take other feats instead.

    2) Allow specialists to cast spells from their own school spontaneously, like sorcerers; while memorizing & casting spells from other schools in the traditional manner.

    I think either of those would be super cool. Especially #2. Of course, will I ever have the time to make it happen? Probably not. :(
    ThacoBellContemplative_Hamsterineth
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 3,423
    I don't really get why necromancy as wizardry is so often considered evil, when about 80% of a good cleric's spells are necromancy.
  • GawainBSGawainBS Member Posts: 322
    I think option 2 is really cool.
    ThacoBell
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