Nice to see you chip in. But just wondering your figures. Something sounds strange.
Korgan has 19 Con, and can reach F40. Dorn has 14 Con, and can reach Pal34.
Korgan max HP =15x9+31x3=228 Dorn max HP = 10x9+25x3=165
Most damaging circumstance is when Korgan takes 8 hits before going down, it's 228/8=28.5 per hit If Dorn takes 28.5 per hit, he should last 165/28.5=5.8 which is close to 6.
Least damaging circumstance is when Korgan takes 11 hits before going down, it's 228/11=20.7 per hit If Dorn takes 20.7 per hit, he should last 165/20.7=8.0 hits.
Using your numbers, if Korgan lasts 8-11 hits, Dorn should last 6-8 hits. Any reason why he's going down in just 4-6 hits? Could you clarify?
I've got to say, I expected more people to be annoyed with Hexxat's strength than Dorn's. :P
Eh, she's a vampire. Superantural strength, and all that. Strength by the books for Vampires is actually set at 18/76, so Hexxat must have found some Strength tomes! !
I've got to say, I expected more people to be annoyed with Hexxat's strength than Dorn's. :P
Eh, she's a vampire. Superantural strength, and all that. Strength by the books for Vampires is actually set at 18/76, so Hexxat must have found some Strength tomes! !
There are different grades and kinds of Vampirism, I don't know if this is allowed in AD&D rules but Nosferatu have the STR of five men when they are completely adapted to their undead form.
I've got to say, I expected more people to be annoyed with Hexxat's strength than Dorn's. :P
Eh, she's a vampire. Superantural strength, and all that. Strength by the books for Vampires is actually set at 18/76, so Hexxat must have found some Strength tomes! !
Fledgling vampires have 18/76, but as they age they gain strength. Bodhi is the highest pinnacle of vampiredom... a matriarch vampire. 21 strength thereabouts.
N.B. I'm quoting from the Ravenloft sourcebooks here. Might not apply :P
I've got to say, I expected more people to be annoyed with Hexxat's strength than Dorn's. :P
Eh, she's a vampire. Superantural strength, and all that. Strength by the books for Vampires is actually set at 18/76, so Hexxat must have found some Strength tomes! !
Fledgling vampires have 18/76, but as they age they gain strength. Bodhi is the highest pinnacle of vampiredom... a matriarch vampire. 21 strength thereabouts.
N.B. I'm quoting from the Ravenloft sourcebooks here. Might not apply :P
Oh, so AD&D is like classic Nosferatu, I do not know much about AD&D undead, but I know about legends and books (Twilight is not a book nor a legend and it often gets used a a synonym of commercial bullshit).
jacobtan I just did not made the maths with Korgan, just with my PC, who, at level 40 will have 277 with her current set up. That was the mistake :P
Wow... 277 life XD
Yeah, sometimes I need to lighten up. I read too much, calculate numbers too much, and probably should enjoy the games more.
22 CON as base, +10% HP from Pale Green Ioun Stone. I could have got a better build if I used the Axe of the Unyielding+5 for 23 CON so I get +7 HP per level for a much better total. EDIT: no, you need 24 to get +7 HP >.< me and my mistakes.
Here's for you my young friend. From the Ravenloft sourcebook,
Fledgling (0-99 years old) - 18/76 Mature (100-199 years old) - 18/91 Old (200-299 years old) - 18/00 Very Old (300-399 years old) - 18/00 Ancient (400-499 years old) - 19 Eminent (500-999 years old) - 20 Patriarch/Matriarch (1000+ years old) - 21
Apparently, Bodhi is a really old hag. Even by vampire standards...
If the Ravenloft vampire rules apply, it seems that Hexxat is a fairly old hag too.
Fledgling (0-99 years old) - 18/76 Mature (100-199 years old) - 18/91 Old (200-299 years old) - 18/00 Very Old (300-399 years old) - 18/00 Ancient (400-499 years old) - 19 Eminent (500-999 years old) - 20 Patriarch/Matriarch (1000+ years old) - 21
So Dracula has 20 STR, bloody bastard vampire (or 21 as the information about Dracula turning a vampire's date is doubted in the book)!!! Hexxat shouls be 500 years or more then. Doesn't she feels like a pedophile with a ~25 Half-Elf (who is even stronger than Hexxat as STR is 23 base right now, and she is as dexterous as her (20 DEX) and far more Wise (18 WIS) but she isn't very bright (10 INT) and nothing near a polite person (10 or 11 CHA) like Hexxat)?
Come to think of it, if Bodhi is 1000 years old as a vampire (her reference card in the original boxed set said she's a matriarch), then Irenicus should also be 1000 years old, plus a few hundred years more to reach archmage status before he became the Exile.
1000+++ years is a very long time to hold a grudge...
I guess a vampire can outlive any human lover unless the vampire converts the lover into another vampire, so eventually, an old vampire that wants some company will end up being a pedophile :P
Come to think of it, if Bodhi is 1000 years old as a vampire (her reference card in the original boxed set said she's a matriarch), then Irenicus should also be 1000 years old, plus a few hundred years more to reach archmage status before he became the Exile.
1000+++ years is a very long time to hold a grudge...
But didn't the Seldarine curse them when they were exiled to give them human lifespans?
Come to think of it, if Bodhi is 1000 years old as a vampire (her reference card in the original boxed set said she's a matriarch), then Irenicus should also be 1000 years old, plus a few hundred years more to reach archmage status before he became the Exile.
1000+++ years is a very long time to hold a grudge...
But didn't the Seldarine curse them when they were exiled to give them human lifespans?
Bodhi became a vampire. As a vampire, she can basically exist until destroyed. For Irenicus, when they had the lover's spat in Suldanessellar, Ellesime said to Irenicus "Would that you had used your stolen mortal years to earn your return to this sacred place."
Presumably, Irenicus must have used magic to suck life from others.
Volume I of Monstrous Compendium says that vampires have 18/76 strength. It mentions western and eastern vampires but it doesn't provide a justification anywhere for a vampire having more then this amount of strength (also Bodhi has 24 strength so I think its probably best to assume that BG2 works on its own ruleset).
Volume I of Monstrous Compendium says that vampires have 18/76 strength. It mentions western and eastern vampires but it doesn't provide a justification anywhere for a vampire having more then this amount of strength (also Bodhi has 24 strength so I think its probably best to assume that BG2 works on its own ruleset).
Agreed. Ravenloft rules may not necessarily apply in FR, but only serve as a passing reference. And Bodhi is not a typical matriarch vampire by any standards.
It is widely accepted that the evil team in BG2 is best at what they do. Korgan is the best pure Fighter. Viconia is the best pure Cleric. Edwin is the best pure Mage. Dorn is the strongest warrior. Hexxat is the best Thief. And Sarevok is death incarnate.
I don't really understand your point tbh. The fact that they're are evil is unrelated to the fact that I dislike that some of the new characters have such a high power level.
It is widely accepted that the evil team in BG2 is best at what they do. Korgan is the best pure Fighter. Viconia is the best pure Cleric. Edwin is the best pure Mage. Dorn is the strongest warrior. Hexxat is the best Thief. And Sarevok is death incarnate.
I don't really understand your point tbh. The fact that they're are evil is unrelated to the fact that I dislike that some of the new characters have such a high power level.
On one level, I agree with you. But there is precedent - the evil characters have always been more powerful Edit: I can't abide typos!
I agree there's precedent and its not that big of a deal seeing as I would use neither Dorn or Hexxat regardless. I just don't like it very much it doesn't feel right to me.
But there is precedent - the evil characters have always been more powerful
Yeah, but quest rewards in XP terms for BG2 are all nerfed BIASED! Because in BG1 playing Evil gives around 2%+ XP if you kill the Flaming Fist that pursue you in the whole game.
Added Obe's tutorial NPCs to the list, for what it's worth. Deder and Mordaine have 11, Canderous and Osprey 16 (the latter very high for a cleric/mage), Arkanis 18/53.
Let's compare the static bonuses and not the ones that are triggered then. (No spells or special abilities).
"So in short, Korgan gets +5 to hit (+2 STR and +3 GM) and +9 damage (+4 STR and +5 GM). Dorn gets +4 to hit (+3 STR and +1 Spec) and +9 (+7 STR and +2 Spec)."
That would be +1 Damage for Dorn with Two Handed Weapon Style though.
Those are their stats when you first recruit them. No weapons, no spells, no abilities, no extra attacks.
Korgan has +1 to hit. Dorn has +1 to damage with Two Handed Weapon Style.
Really, the difference is minimal. And not worth making a debate over.
It would be silly not to throw in +2 damage/Thac0 from berserk. I know you don't want to mention abilities, but it is something that he gets from the get-to-go. So he does have more damage than Dorn. Even if you throw in DuHM for Dorn, Korgan can get the same with Crom Faeyr and then Korgan will have a lot more damage than Dorn.
From the moment you can pick up Korgan, he is more powerful than Dorn. Immune to level drain? Rage.
@SionIV Korgan only deals more damage if you decide to ignore poison weapon, after which there's no question - Dorn probably deals the most damage of any NPC by far.
@SionIV Korgan only deals more damage if you decide to ignore poison weapon, after which there's no question - Dorn probably deals the most damage of any NPC by far.
The other points are valid, though.
The question would be if that poison works on dragons or demons? I can't remember as i normally don't run around and poison things in BG2. But if it doesn't work against dragons or demons and it for sure doesn't work against undead, there aren't that many things left worth poisoning.
We're also going into the whole BG1 dagger of venom theory now. Sure the dagger of venom will deal the most damage out of any weapon in BG1, but it's still quite the niche build.
And how quick does this poison deal damage? Because a 25 STR korgan in rage with 8/10 APR and critical strike shouldn't have problem putting down stuff fast.
And theoretically Sarevok deals the most damage of all NPC's, much more than Dorn with his poison. It's just not as easy to get it to work practically, but it is possible.
With Dorn's THAC0, Poison Weapon becomes one of the most OP abilities in the game. It's a mage-killer, and there may not be a better one. For my money, mages are the most dangerous foes I face.
With Dorn's THAC0, Poison Weapon becomes one of the most OP abilities in the game. It's a mage-killer, and there may not be a better one. For my money, mages are the most dangerous foes I face.
I fully agree with you here, but while Dorn is a great mage killer, Keldorn is just so much better at it.
I guess if you want someone between Keldorn and Korgan then Dorn would be a good choice.
SionIV Korgan only deals more damage if you decide to ignore poison weapon, after which there's no question - Dorn probably deals the most damage of any NPC by far.
The other points are valid, though.
The question would be if that poison works on dragons or demons? I can't remember as i normally don't run around and poison things in BG2. But if it doesn't work against dragons or demons and it for sure doesn't work against undead, there aren't that many things left worth poisoning.
They DO work on most of the Dragons, both Shadow Dragon and Abazigal's green Dragon Guardian are immune, maybe Draconis too IIRC. EDIT: also the Green Dragon of the Fear Test in the Last Seal of Watcher's Keep. But then, use GWWA and PW and they are dead meat (ranged weapon recommended).
Ahh Dorn and his poison weapon. So much potential for death. Also it gives Fire Seeds a use because you can give them to Dorn and (while the description implies otherwise) they have the same radius as about 1/2 a fireball. So (especially with Improved Haste active) you can mass poison enemies. Best if he's level 13 for it but overall its pretty fun stuff
From my experience with an evil party hardly anything's immune to the poison. It's so powerful I stopped using it after a while, it was kind of boring.
Comments
Nice to see you chip in. But just wondering your figures. Something sounds strange.
Korgan has 19 Con, and can reach F40. Dorn has 14 Con, and can reach Pal34.
Korgan max HP =15x9+31x3=228
Dorn max HP = 10x9+25x3=165
Most damaging circumstance is when Korgan takes 8 hits before going down, it's 228/8=28.5 per hit
If Dorn takes 28.5 per hit, he should last 165/28.5=5.8 which is close to 6.
Least damaging circumstance is when Korgan takes 11 hits before going down, it's 228/11=20.7 per hit
If Dorn takes 20.7 per hit, he should last 165/20.7=8.0 hits.
Using your numbers, if Korgan lasts 8-11 hits, Dorn should last 6-8 hits. Any reason why he's going down in just 4-6 hits? Could you clarify?
That was the mistake :P There are different grades and kinds of Vampirism, I don't know if this is allowed in AD&D rules but Nosferatu have the STR of five men when they are completely adapted to their undead form.
N.B. I'm quoting from the Ravenloft sourcebooks here. Might not apply :P
Yeah, sometimes I need to lighten up. I read too much, calculate numbers too much, and probably should enjoy the games more.
EDIT: no, you need 24 to get +7 HP >.< me and my mistakes.
Here's for you my young friend. From the Ravenloft sourcebook,
Fledgling (0-99 years old) - 18/76
Mature (100-199 years old) - 18/91
Old (200-299 years old) - 18/00
Very Old (300-399 years old) - 18/00
Ancient (400-499 years old) - 19
Eminent (500-999 years old) - 20
Patriarch/Matriarch (1000+ years old) - 21
Apparently, Bodhi is a really old hag. Even by vampire standards...
If the Ravenloft vampire rules apply, it seems that Hexxat is a fairly old hag too.
Hexxat shouls be 500 years or more then. Doesn't she feels like a pedophile with a ~25 Half-Elf (who is even stronger than Hexxat as STR is 23 base right now, and she is as dexterous as her (20 DEX) and far more Wise (18 WIS) but she isn't very bright (10 INT) and nothing near a polite person (10 or 11 CHA) like Hexxat)?
1000+++ years is a very long time to hold a grudge...
I guess a vampire can outlive any human lover unless the vampire converts the lover into another vampire, so eventually, an old vampire that wants some company will end up being a pedophile :P
Presumably, Irenicus must have used magic to suck life from others.
I don't really understand your point tbh. The fact that they're are evil is unrelated to the fact that I dislike that some of the new characters have such a high power level.
But there is precedent - the evil characters have always been more powerful
Edit: I can't abide typos!
Because in BG1 playing Evil gives around 2%+ XP if you kill the Flaming Fist that pursue you in the whole game.
Korgan deals more damage.
Korgan has more health.
Korgans Berserk grants him immunities.
Korgan has shortie saves.
I would pick Korgan, Keldorn or Sarevok over Dorn any day when it comes to power parties. It would be silly not to throw in +2 damage/Thac0 from berserk. I know you don't want to mention abilities, but it is something that he gets from the get-to-go. So he does have more damage than Dorn. Even if you throw in DuHM for Dorn, Korgan can get the same with Crom Faeyr and then Korgan will have a lot more damage than Dorn.
From the moment you can pick up Korgan, he is more powerful than Dorn. Immune to level drain? Rage.
The other points are valid, though.
We're also going into the whole BG1 dagger of venom theory now. Sure the dagger of venom will deal the most damage out of any weapon in BG1, but it's still quite the niche build.
And how quick does this poison deal damage? Because a 25 STR korgan in rage with 8/10 APR and critical strike shouldn't have problem putting down stuff fast.
And theoretically Sarevok deals the most damage of all NPC's, much more than Dorn with his poison. It's just not as easy to get it to work practically, but it is possible.
I guess if you want someone between Keldorn and Korgan then Dorn would be a good choice.
EDIT: also the Green Dragon of the Fear Test in the Last Seal of Watcher's Keep.
But then, use GWWA and PW and they are dead meat (ranged weapon recommended).