This first part of what I'm proposing seems all but certain not to come to pass*: but I wonder if a sure thing with current fans would be to recreate the BG series in terms of gameplay from the ground up using today's technology. In other words, if the original devs of yesteryear had had today's technology and coding capabilities to design the engine, and wanted to make the same game, what would the game look like? So that's the game engine: same basic ruleset, 2D isometric graphics (and I know they could do otherwise now but I would keep with painted backgrounds), but just utterly amazing to look at. Obviously there will be tweaks and some changes here and there. But for the most part we keep with what we have in terms of ruleset and combat mechanics.
And for the story, if it has to be set post-spell plague I would actually like it to use the legacy of the Bhaapspawn Wars and Gorion's Ward in some creative way as a starting point. It could certainly feature the city of Baldur's Gate (perhaps as a starting location). But then the story could develop into just about anything. The BG series would give birth to the new adventure, but it is a new story of course. That would suit me fine.
* Because WotC presumably wants to promote D&D Next rather than use 2nd Edition AD&D.
Although, actually, if there was a petition or something like that from the fanbase that shows that recreation of the Infinity engine's ruleset and combat mechanics would be a sure thing financially, you never know...
Another thing I think would be cool is to have an option to enter a fair a bit of information about who Gorion's Ward was, at least basic parameters such as name, gender, race, class, and alignment... and maybe whether the character chose the path of divinity or mortality... and perhaps as an optional thing, NPCS that CHARNAME had adventured with... and have some different things result in-game from that. Not major developments or anything, but maybe a sidequest that is specific to all that.
* Because WotC presumably wants to promote D&D Next rather than use 2nd Edition AD&D.
Although, actually, if there was a petition or something like that from the fanbase that shows that recreation of the Infinity engine's ruleset and combat mechanics would be a sure thing financially, you never know...
I think that the game will sell better if it's 2E AD&D. There are more fans of this games than new people to them, really, and many prefer 2E rules.
I disagree. The game will initially sell no matter what if it is marketed as BG3. If it has a good playability and a good story then it will keep selling no matter the ruleset. Part of the fun is learning new rulesets, right? :-)
Even if it isn't, a RPG is more about the story than the rules, as long as they are not utter s***. Just like in PnP. And I am sure D&D next will have a well designed set of rules (it is not like they are amateurs)
Now, will a kickstarter initiative taking the AD&D rules sell more? i dont know. The power of nostalgia is great as seen with the 25 anniversary HeroQuest edition.
That the game will have to use Wizards of the Coast canon and rules (so adding abouts 150 years and using 5th edition rules) because Wizards wants promotion for its new ruleset and setting. Releasing the game in 2nd Edition like BG or 3rd Edition (the one most people prefer from what I gathered) would be akin to saying "We know our current rules are not as good as the previous ones" which is company suicide of course.
Might not be a problem of course, from what I heard of the rules so far, they should be pretty good. More importantly, everyone's favorite murdergod is back in 5th which might tie in neatly with BG3's plot. The last Bhaalspawn (loverboy Adbel Adrian and Viekang the Suddenly and Inexplicably Evil) were killed in Baldur's Gate, so this might also be a good starting point.
I don't really *want* a BG3. You don't need the name to make a BG-esque game. Most plot suggestions I've heard either have you play as a god vs other gods (which would render the game nothing like the other BG games), have your character delevelled to lvl1 so you can start over (Yeah, because that's fun) or are completely unrelated adventures (meaning the Baldur's Gate name makes no sense at all). The Bhaalspawn story is over, Charname's business is done. Adding more to the series could easily turn into The Kingdom of the Crystal Skull.
If it WERE to happen, I'd need the following in a hypothetical BG3 for me to consider it a promising addition to the series: -Have it not be a direct sequel to Throne of Bhaal but either a much later followup or a game set in the same period from another perspective. -Feature the city of Baldur's Gate again (it IS the name of the game) -And/or Feature Bhaal again in some manner. -References to your actions in previous games, cameo's (non-joinable) of the occasional old NPC (to breed that familiar feeling without using it as a crutch). -Similar engine, so a topdown, partybased RPG.
I'd like it to be a fresh game based on the same themes, not the old game in a new skin.
Since I've come to this conversation late, forgive me for stringing together several different thoughts.
Oh gosh... Imoen as a mother seems scary... "*baby is born* 'Heya! It's me, your mom!'"
@Anduin So if your CHARNAME is boo's child, does that make you a boospawn? (I'm sorry... I couldn't resist)
I honestly want IWD 1&2 to get the enhanced edition treatment before anything else happens. IWD1 was the first one of these games I ever played, so it has a soft spot in my heart. I still remember trying to kill chickens for no reason because I was, like, 8, and accidentally targeting (and slaughtering) my thief... Good times...
Ignoring nostalgia, I feel like a BG3 just wouldn't work. There are too many issues along with it. I definitely do NOT want a BGMMORPG. That would be horrible. Another well made BG style game with a new story\cast\adventure would be awesome, however. You could even make certain cameos if you REALLY wished, but I think it would be best to, at most, have just a stone grave marker with the name of a BG character on it. Just as an easter egg.
I disagree. The game will initially sell no matter what if it is marketed as BG3. If it has a good playability and a good story then it will keep selling no matter the ruleset. Part of the fun is learning new rulesets, right? :-)
Even if it isn't, a RPG is more about the story than the rules, as long as they are not utter s***. Just like in PnP. And I am sure D&D next will have a well designed set of rules (it is not like they are amateurs)
Now, will a kickstarter initiative taking the AD&D rules sell more? i dont know. The power of nostalgia is great as seen with the 25 anniversary HeroQuest edition.
One thing about D&D Next that I have read is that it was designed to be modular and customizable, and heavily constructed from fan feedback. So that sounds very hopeful.
Thing is, with the BG series we have near perfection of gameplay--or at least that is how most of the hardcore fans of the series probably feel. Why reinvent the wheel? Give the customers what they want.
Here's a little hypothetical thought experiment:
I agree that if a kickstarter initiative was launched requesting to have BG3 made with essentially the same ruleset and combat mechanics as the BG series, it would be massively popular. I mean, I would imagine that WotC is probably the ultimate shotcaller, and there are other partners such as Hasbro and Atari, etc. But I think many fans would actually donate under the condition that it goes to Beamdog if and only if the same basic ruleset and combat mechanics are used from the Infinity engine for the new game. (Again some tweaks and improvements are to be expected, but otherwise don't fix what ain't broke!).
If it doesn't come to pass, I guess there is the problem, though, of what happens to the donations. So maybe it's a bad idea in that aspect.
I'm not recommending any of this, but just saying that I believe that fan enthusiasm for it would send a message to the various partners about what fans want.
I think it's unlikely WotC would license anything but the latest ruleset for a new game.
I wonder if Wizards is at the point now, though, where they recognize that sometimes it's smarter to just give the customers what they want. Of course this assumes that what fans of the BG series want is the same style of gameplay that the BG series gave us for its successor. (Who knows, maybe a lot of fans would want D&D Next instead.) If there was a way to determine that accurately, though, then wouldn't WotC be motivated to go with what seems to guarantee the highest sales?
No one fully knows what D&D Next is going to be like. It could be AWESOME!
So could BGNext.
...
And if it's pants. I would still buy BGNext to keep my collection whole.
*Anduin glimpses, then stares painfully at the very dusty lord of the rings DVD he bought where he first watched the advert showing the upcoming collectors edition, that he went and bought, cursing his rushed fanboyism character fault*
They better ensure they don't bring out any nasty surprises on upgrades...
That lord of the rings DVD is a set of pants that have never been worn again...
Just saw this post, and I feel like I gotta say something. I like your enthusiasm and as romantic as your ideas are, there are a couple of points I feel I must address.
1. The BG franchise, and games like BG aren't going to dethrone Blizzard anytime soon. In fact, this game was more obscure than it should have been in it's heyday. Sadly, these types of games (DnD) are not everyone's cup of tea. The dice game just doesn't catch on like other venues. As much as I want BG to be everyones favorite game, the numbers are just not there.
2. I like the idea of epic levels, but it's terrible scaling always bugged me. I didn't like the fact that it was pointless to memorize anything below level 6. Damage spells from these levels were insignificant, and saving throws were always made. Because someone is level 30, their body can somehow take an absurd amount of spear impaling? I think a way to fix this dilemma would be by capping health and saving throws completely at a relatively low level, which in turn only achieves at opening up another can of worms.
I appalogize if this post annoyed anyone /realtalk
I agree that a large part of the problem is that while AD&D scales pretty well up to level 20, past that, it's kind of a mess. This is already apparent in ToB and one of the main reasons that any sort of sequel involving a level 40+ character would just be an exercise in frustration. Maybe high-level combat just doesn't interest me.
I think it's unlikely WotC would license anything but the latest ruleset for a new game.
I wonder if Wizards is at the point now, though, where they recognize that sometimes it's smarter to just give the customers what they want. Of course this assumes that what fans of the BG series want is the same style of gameplay that the BG series gave us for its successor. (Who knows, maybe a lot of fans would want D&D Next instead.) If there was a way to determine that accurately, though, then wouldn't WotC be motivated to go with what seems to guarantee the highest sales?
That's the point. I find it unlikely WotC would go for a game aimed at just hardcore BG fans, it's way too small a market. Better make a new game to market the new rules to new people, and hope the old fans don't mind overmuch.
@FinneousPJ I guess that's true. They'd want to expand the base of potential customers to a whole new generation that has never played BG, and has no interest in playing an old game but might play a new one.
So let's run with the new story idea. It's a good point that TOB wrapped up the story pretty well so it would be a stretch to continue it. So assuming they write a whole new story and keep the gameplay style, which rule set should be implemented? Personally I'm hoping for 3.0 - 3.5 because of the raw amount of material available for character customization, gameplay, and NPCs/Monsters.
Any new game will probably use Next, or 5E, or whatever it'll be called, simply because that's in Wizards' best interests as a business, and it's their call. I'd personally prefer 2E, but really, I'd only take issue with it being 4E, and that's not likely to happen.
I know people seem to hate 4E, but why is that exactly? I have a small bit of experience with 3E, and plenty with 2E due to Baldur's gate, but I know nothing of 4E.
It's not all bad. My main issue with it is the system of encounter, daily, at-will powers & standard attack types. After playing it for most of last year, I realized you have an almost dizzying array of powers with different cool downs. Everyone had a reference card sheet they had to peruse each turn. For PnP, this led to combat dragging on forever. In a CRPG, it really does feel like an MMO. We had a good DM who did a fine job building a world and not overloading us with constant battle, but when we did fight, it was thoroughly less enjoyable than my experience with 2E or 3.5E.
Comments
And for the story, if it has to be set post-spell plague I would actually like it to use the legacy of the Bhaapspawn Wars and Gorion's Ward in some creative way as a starting point. It could certainly feature the city of Baldur's Gate (perhaps as a starting location). But then the story could develop into just about anything. The BG series would give birth to the new adventure, but it is a new story of course. That would suit me fine.
* Because WotC presumably wants to promote D&D Next rather than use 2nd Edition AD&D.
Although, actually, if there was a petition or something like that from the fanbase that shows that recreation of the Infinity engine's ruleset and combat mechanics would be a sure thing financially, you never know...
Even if it isn't, a RPG is more about the story than the rules, as long as they are not utter s***. Just like in PnP. And I am sure D&D next will have a well designed set of rules (it is not like they are amateurs)
Now, will a kickstarter initiative taking the AD&D rules sell more? i dont know. The power of nostalgia is great as seen with the 25 anniversary HeroQuest edition.
Might not be a problem of course, from what I heard of the rules so far, they should be pretty good.
More importantly, everyone's favorite murdergod is back in 5th which might tie in neatly with BG3's plot. The last Bhaalspawn (loverboy Adbel Adrian and Viekang the Suddenly and Inexplicably Evil) were killed in Baldur's Gate, so this might also be a good starting point.
I don't really *want* a BG3. You don't need the name to make a BG-esque game. Most plot suggestions I've heard either have you play as a god vs other gods (which would render the game nothing like the other BG games), have your character delevelled to lvl1 so you can start over (Yeah, because that's fun) or are completely unrelated adventures (meaning the Baldur's Gate name makes no sense at all). The Bhaalspawn story is over, Charname's business is done. Adding more to the series could easily turn into The Kingdom of the Crystal Skull.
If it WERE to happen, I'd need the following in a hypothetical BG3 for me to consider it a promising addition to the series:
-Have it not be a direct sequel to Throne of Bhaal but either a much later followup or a game set in the same period from another perspective.
-Feature the city of Baldur's Gate again (it IS the name of the game)
-And/or Feature Bhaal again in some manner.
-References to your actions in previous games, cameo's (non-joinable) of the occasional old NPC (to breed that familiar feeling without using it as a crutch).
-Similar engine, so a topdown, partybased RPG.
I'd like it to be a fresh game based on the same themes, not the old game in a new skin.
Oh gosh... Imoen as a mother seems scary... "*baby is born* 'Heya! It's me, your mom!'"
@Anduin So if your CHARNAME is boo's child, does that make you a boospawn? (I'm sorry... I couldn't resist)
I honestly want IWD 1&2 to get the enhanced edition treatment before anything else happens. IWD1 was the first one of these games I ever played, so it has a soft spot in my heart. I still remember trying to kill chickens for no reason because I was, like, 8, and accidentally targeting (and slaughtering) my thief... Good times...
Ignoring nostalgia, I feel like a BG3 just wouldn't work. There are too many issues along with it. I definitely do NOT want a BGMMORPG. That would be horrible. Another well made BG style game with a new story\cast\adventure would be awesome, however. You could even make certain cameos if you REALLY wished, but I think it would be best to, at most, have just a stone grave marker with the name of a BG character on it. Just as an easter egg.
Thing is, with the BG series we have near perfection of gameplay--or at least that is how most of the hardcore fans of the series probably feel. Why reinvent the wheel? Give the customers what they want.
Here's a little hypothetical thought experiment:
I agree that if a kickstarter initiative was launched requesting to have BG3 made with essentially the same ruleset and combat mechanics as the BG series, it would be massively popular. I mean, I would imagine that WotC is probably the ultimate shotcaller, and there are other partners such as Hasbro and Atari, etc. But I think many fans would actually donate under the condition that it goes to Beamdog if and only if the same basic ruleset and combat mechanics are used from the Infinity engine for the new game. (Again some tweaks and improvements are to be expected, but otherwise don't fix what ain't broke!).
If it doesn't come to pass, I guess there is the problem, though, of what happens to the donations. So maybe it's a bad idea in that aspect.
I'm not recommending any of this, but just saying that I believe that fan enthusiasm for it would send a message to the various partners about what fans want.
End of thought experiment.
So could BGNext.
...
And if it's pants. I would still buy BGNext to keep my collection whole.
*Anduin glimpses, then stares painfully at the very dusty lord of the rings DVD he bought where he first watched the advert showing the upcoming collectors edition, that he went and bought, cursing his rushed fanboyism character fault*
They better ensure they don't bring out any nasty surprises on upgrades...
That lord of the rings DVD is a set of pants that have never been worn again...
1. The BG franchise, and games like BG aren't going to dethrone Blizzard anytime soon. In fact, this game was more obscure than it should have been in it's heyday. Sadly, these types of games (DnD) are not everyone's cup of tea. The dice game just doesn't catch on like other venues. As much as I want BG to be everyones favorite game, the numbers are just not there.
2. I like the idea of epic levels, but it's terrible scaling always bugged me. I didn't like the fact that it was pointless to memorize anything below level 6. Damage spells from these levels were insignificant, and saving throws were always made. Because someone is level 30, their body can somehow take an absurd amount of spear impaling? I think a way to fix this dilemma would be by capping health and saving throws completely at a relatively low level, which in turn only achieves at opening up another can of worms.
I appalogize if this post annoyed anyone /realtalk