Its worth playing through once or twice. Just to see how things end. But that portion of the unmodded game doesn't have a lot of replay value (at least in my opinion).
I've never finished the "trilogy", I always play BG1 and SoA and then stop. I keep hearing people say that ToB is boring and monotonous.
All these years since BG2 was released I've played all the way through TOB once. Usually I play and towards the end of SOA I'm getting HLAs and the power meter goes off the chart and it's time to start over once Irenicus dies and Watchers Keep has been entered.
The TOB plot is just lame. You are dragged on rails along the plot while being given +6 Hackmasters every fight and every guard, farmer and bad guy has at least +4 weapons.
Gotta say, try and play through it at least once. Personally, I get stopped once I reach Draco, but just getting that far is worth it. Even going to Watcher's keep is worth it, although you can technically do that in SoA.
If nothing else, it is still part of the same game. Therefore, I think it is worth trying. As was said, even a Bad BG is till better than 90% of the rest of the games out there.
I beat ToB when beta testing (and obviously I've beaten the original) but I haven't beaten it since. The problem I have with ToB is its heavy on encounters/battles but lacking on story and side quests. Also most of the rewards for side quests are just pitiful given what you are getting for killing monsters.
So like I wrote. Play through it once or twice and make up your own mind about it
Eh, we bitch about it, but it's worth doing a couple times. Finish the story, see a romance through to completion, do Watcher's Keep, check out the new material (if the f'n patch ever comes out.) Laugh at Sendai's voice acting. See if you can kill the Bhaalspawn rodents. The game's got its moments.
I thought I was an exception here having completed ToB only twice. What I like about ToB is that it does wind up the plot (Alaundo's prophecy) pretty conclusively, whereas SoA in a way is a digression from that plot. Plus it offers an awesome NPC
Its worth one try at least. My opinion it is dull and boring. ToB feels rushed. It doesn't hold anything to the greatness of BG1's expansion, Tales of the Sword Coast.
For some reason I haven't gotten around to play ToB so far, but it seems its actual problem is the lack of sidequests and the power inflation? It's not like the other games don't rely mostly on the player to complete the plot one by one.
It's a strange game because it's very much about the main story, yet, doesn't go into great detail about it. Though it's definitely worth playing through once
Wow, I was not aware that there was such a strong consensus on this issue
I've only played through ToB once. Apart from Watcher's Keep, which I always do in SoA anyway, the expansion lacks the replay value of its predecessors. Like others in this thread, I think the only real reason to play it is to get a proper closure to the Bhaalspawn saga.
I don't think anyone would call ToB a bad game. It is just noticeable less exciting and fun than the rest. Think IWD2 on steroids and you have a fairly good idea.
To be honest, if I don't get attached to a character, my playthroughs often end with the party standing next to the portal to Underdark.
The game is wonderful right to that point, but then comes "oh no, it'll be go there kill that go there go there kill some more again". It becomes painfully linear, the first part gives many choices, side quests, order of doing things is pretty much up to the player. Second half of SoA and ToB are stripped of that and I don't like being taken by hand and led through everything by creators.
Well, ToB differs somewhat from SoA. It is more combat oriented, more quick-actioned, more fast paced, gives off the abstract feeling of a hack and slash action RPG; minus the real time element, that is. Many people get bored by it, badmouth it, or try to pan it by locating or inventing cons in it, be it about style, or gameplay, or both. But it is a solid, and pretty good, expansion pack, mind you, nonetheless. Also, the high level abilities, simply rock. Is great. Play it through, and you won't regret it...
While the ToB campaign is bad compared to SoA it's still a decent game if you look at it next to other RPG games. Not to mention there have been worse expansion packs out there. The big problem with ToB isn't that it's a bad game, it's that SoA was pretty much 10/10 and there was no way ToB could hold up that standard.
Upgraded GUI and graphics - 9/10 Bug fixes and cleaning up/repairing the game - 9/10 BGEE content - 2/10
I do not wish to bash BGEE with this comparison, it was worth two copies for the upgrades alone. I just don't happen to like the added content. Doesn't make BGEE bad though, i just enjoy it for other reasons.
Upgraded GUI and graphics - 9/10 Bug fixes and cleaning up/repairing the game - 9/10 BGEE content - 2/10 Externalization of tables and hardcoded features, hardcoded bug corrections for Mac that can't use TobEx - 9/10
In my opinion you've missed one of the EEs greatest feature
To be honest, if I don't get attached to a character, my playthroughs often end with the party standing next to the portal to Underdark.
The game is wonderful right to that point, but then comes "oh no, it'll be go there kill that go there go there kill some more again". It becomes painfully linear, the first part gives many choices, side quests, order of doing things is pretty much up to the player. Second half of SoA and ToB are stripped of that and I don't like being taken by hand and led through everything by creators.
This pretty much sums up my experience as well. Except I play further and it starts to feel like a chore or a grind.
I guess I'll be the contrarian and say that there are quite a few positive features about ToB. The main criticism, and a very valid one, is that it does not have the same depth and detail as the first two games, and is limited in terms of sidequests and freedom.
However, if you are like me and love conclusions (or NEED them) then the game does its job. The encounters are at high levels and therefore somewhat exciting. I like having the super high level spells and the HLAs.
It is not as good as the first two, obviously, but as many said it is definitely worth doing. I'd say it is a bit underrated by the community. There are some very enjoyable fights and pretty memorable moments. Also there is an AWESOME new NPC that you just need to try out.
So I'd say play it once, and see for yourself!!!!!
PS Confession: I have absolutely no idea what externalization means...
I feel the need to point out that all stories, no matter how wide their range, naturally follow a structure of the various plot threads tying more closely together as they approach their climax - it is the natural progression of any good tale. ToB has its faults, most of which are listed above, but my gut says that part of why I don't like it is because I never wanted the story to end.
Confession: I have absolutely no idea what externalization means...
'Externalization' means (at least when used for this context) that there are codes being taken from the Baldur.exe and re-written in a way that you can easily edit, like in a 2DA table or an IDS list, and this could be done in BG2:ToB by installing TobEx but it only works in the Windows version of the game, so Mac users (I have the Windows version running on a Mac for BG2:ToB and the Mac versions of the EEs) couldn't have those things available. Some of them are: Which races can dual-class, the Barbarian's HP table, several fixes for hardcoded effect opcodes (like Blindness giving -10 THAC0 penalty instead of -4) and additional Actions and Triggers for scripts. You can find a full guid of what TobEx does here. Also, new things have been added, the CLSCOLR, for example, to determinte which color is a particular class/kit is going to start with (and another table for the races' colors), which classes/kits will get APR bonus from Specialization or Grand Mastery from their Proficiencies, you can also determine how much penalty to THAC0 you can get with a weapon you are unproficient with and which races are going to use which descriptions.
I'm with those who would definitely say play it once. It has its moments and it wraps up the Bhaalspawn saga pretty decisively. I think it is the weakest part of the story; too linear, ridiculously high level, too much non-stop combat.
But its not "terrible", and it does end the story.
Throne of Bhaal is not like Tales of the Sword Coast expansion for BG1. It is the third chapter of the Baldur's Gate Saga.
It's not bad or awful as some people claim. It's not a seperate game. It's a expansion to BG2 and it concludes the story in an epic way.
You can play BG1 without playing TotSC but you cannot play BG2 without ToB because it's an incomplete story. Simple as that.
Sure, you might not want to replay as much as BG2 but it's absolutely worth it to play it once and wouldn't skip it. It's not some random DLC. (While TotSC could be considered a DLC pack by modern standards)
What i dislike in TOB : - raising the xp cap in SOA. This one is killing end-game SOA for small groups - HLA are unbalanced and far too powerful - level 9 spells are unbalanced and far too powerful - because of HLA and level 9 spells, it is globally very easy - extremely linear, simplistic structure (trash mobs, trash mobs, boss fight, rinse and repeat) - completely unrealistic (every soldier is level 15 and wields a set of +3 items) - tons of OP items. This removes the special feeling you got from the few available in SOA
What i like in TOB : - the critical path is short, very short even if you beeline it. This is good because it's value is low - watcher's keep is good and can be done in SOA - it concludes the story, which SOA does not do
Comments
Is it as good as BG1 or BG2? No.
But remember that a 'bad' Baldur's Gate is still a good game compared to the rest.
The TOB plot is just lame. You are dragged on rails along the plot while being given +6 Hackmasters every fight and every guard, farmer and bad guy has at least +4 weapons.
1. No
2. Probably not.
3. I'd leave it
If nothing else, it is still part of the same game. Therefore, I think it is worth trying. As was said, even a Bad BG is till better than 90% of the rest of the games out there.
So like I wrote. Play through it once or twice and make up your own mind about it
What I like about ToB is that it does wind up the plot (Alaundo's prophecy) pretty conclusively, whereas SoA in a way is a digression from that plot. Plus it offers an awesome NPC
Is it worth playing more than a few times at the most? No; sadly the story doesn't live up to Baldur's Gate or Shadows of Amn.
I've only played through ToB once. Apart from Watcher's Keep, which I always do in SoA anyway, the expansion lacks the replay value of its predecessors. Like others in this thread, I think the only real reason to play it is to get a proper closure to the Bhaalspawn saga.
I don't think anyone would call ToB a bad game. It is just noticeable less exciting and fun than the rest. Think IWD2 on steroids and you have a fairly good idea.
The game is wonderful right to that point, but then comes "oh no, it'll be go there kill that go there go there kill some more again". It becomes painfully linear, the first part gives many choices, side quests, order of doing things is pretty much up to the player.
Second half of SoA and ToB are stripped of that and I don't like being taken by hand and led through everything by creators.
HLA / Increased level cap - 9/10
Watcher's keep (SoA) - 8/10
ToB campaign - 5/10
While the ToB campaign is bad compared to SoA it's still a decent game if you look at it next to other RPG games. Not to mention there have been worse expansion packs out there. The big problem with ToB isn't that it's a bad game, it's that SoA was pretty much 10/10 and there was no way ToB could hold up that standard.
I would actually like to compare ToB with BGEE.
[ToB]
HLA / Increased level cap - 9/10
Watcher's keep (SoA) - 8/10
ToB campaign - 5/10
[BGEE]
Upgraded GUI and graphics - 9/10
Bug fixes and cleaning up/repairing the game - 9/10
BGEE content - 2/10
I do not wish to bash BGEE with this comparison, it was worth two copies for the upgrades alone. I just don't happen to like the added content. Doesn't make BGEE bad though, i just enjoy it for other reasons.
However, if you are like me and love conclusions (or NEED them) then the game does its job. The encounters are at high levels and therefore somewhat exciting. I like having the super high level spells and the HLAs.
It is not as good as the first two, obviously, but as many said it is definitely worth doing. I'd say it is a bit underrated by the community. There are some very enjoyable fights and pretty memorable moments. Also there is an AWESOME new NPC that you just need to try out.
So I'd say play it once, and see for yourself!!!!!
PS
Confession: I have absolutely no idea what externalization means...
Some of them are: Which races can dual-class, the Barbarian's HP table, several fixes for hardcoded effect opcodes (like Blindness giving -10 THAC0 penalty instead of -4) and additional Actions and Triggers for scripts.
You can find a full guid of what TobEx does here.
Also, new things have been added, the CLSCOLR, for example, to determinte which color is a particular class/kit is going to start with (and another table for the races' colors), which classes/kits will get APR bonus from Specialization or Grand Mastery from their Proficiencies, you can also determine how much penalty to THAC0 you can get with a weapon you are unproficient with and which races are going to use which descriptions.
I think it is the weakest part of the story; too linear, ridiculously high level, too much non-stop combat.
But its not "terrible", and it does end the story.
It's not bad or awful as some people claim. It's not a seperate game. It's a expansion to BG2 and it concludes the story in an epic way.
You can play BG1 without playing TotSC but you cannot play BG2 without ToB because it's an incomplete story. Simple as that.
Sure, you might not want to replay as much as BG2 but it's absolutely worth it to play it once and wouldn't skip it. It's not some random DLC. (While TotSC could be considered a DLC pack by modern standards)
- raising the xp cap in SOA. This one is killing end-game SOA for small groups
- HLA are unbalanced and far too powerful
- level 9 spells are unbalanced and far too powerful
- because of HLA and level 9 spells, it is globally very easy
- extremely linear, simplistic structure (trash mobs, trash mobs, boss fight, rinse and repeat)
- completely unrealistic (every soldier is level 15 and wields a set of +3 items)
- tons of OP items. This removes the special feeling you got from the few available in SOA
What i like in TOB :
- the critical path is short, very short even if you beeline it. This is good because it's value is low
- watcher's keep is good and can be done in SOA
- it concludes the story, which SOA does not do
Play it once or twice and that's it.