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What's your alignment?

13

Comments

  • meaglothmeagloth Member Posts: 3,806
    Chaotic Good
    Uh-oh, looks like @CrevsDaak‌ thinks he's CE again :P

    jackjack
  • BlackravenBlackraven Member Posts: 3,466
    Chaotic Neutral
    @meagloth, Batman has a loooong history. I remember reading my pa's comics from the 1960s when I was a little boy. Batman was a true gentleman, but he may have moved into CG territory. I can't form an opinion there though. I saw the penultimate(?) Batman with Heath Ledger, but that was like 6 years ago.

    CrevsDaak
  • ZaknafeinBaenreZaknafeinBaenre Member Posts: 348
    Neutral Good
    Basically I agree with the people who stick to the descriptions of alignments that Baldur's Gate gives us, and disagree with the people that have tried to add to, change, or skew the meanings of those alignments to fit what they want themselves to be.

    I'm neutral good.

    I am neutral toward laws, meaning I'll follow the ones that make sense and ignore the ones i disagree with.

    And I'm good as opposed to evil. I want people to be happy, and want to help people who are in distress or unhappy.

    For me, it's as simple as that.

    meaglothBlackraven
  • dinobirdguydinobirdguy Member Posts: 14
    Lawful Neutral
    In the online tests, I fluctuate between LG through CG, and LN.

    But in the real world, I'm somewhat bi-polar. So in reality, probably CN. I guess it just depends on the view of the person I'm helping/abusing at that particular moment.

    jackjack
  • ApocryphaApocrypha Member Posts: 104
    Lawful Good
    In the online tests I usually get LG, occasionally NG. In real-life I'd call myself somewhere between LN and LG--"lawful" because I follow both real rules and my religion's rules, and "between neutral and good" because I want to help people, but I'm really bad at actually getting around to the "helping part"

    In games, it varies. I like NG and TN because they allow quite a bit of flexibility in roleplaying, but LE is so much fun to play if done right. I remember in IWD2, a LE Dreadmaster of Bane had so many options to be a manipulative bastard who actually sounded like they served Bane...it was great.

  • CrevsDaakCrevsDaak Member Posts: 7,153
    Chaotic Evil
    I said several times why I am CE, I'm somehow sadist (just psychologically, but still being one) and narcissist (same thing, it's not me, it's really me), and I break most of the rules everywhere, in school they say "don't use your cellphones", and I basically don't even use it at home, only at school :P, so I assume that I evil, and chaotic, so I am CE.
    I dislike giving things (physical things) to others because I think that you have to earn things by yourself, but I really enjoy helping other people.
    Indiana Jones is CG for me and Batman NG.

    jackjackDungeonnoob
  • SCARY_WIZARDSCARY_WIZARD Member Posts: 1,431
    edited May 2014
    Neutral Good

    In the online tests, I fluctuate between LG through CG, and LN.

    But in the real world, I'm somewhat bi-polar. So in reality, probably CN. I guess it just depends on the view of the person I'm helping/abusing at that particular moment.

    Yep, I go between NG, CG, and CN. Let me 4E this...
    "I am mostly benevolent, mildly ornery, and allegedly peculiar."

    jackjackBlackravendinobirdguy
  • BlackravenBlackraven Member Posts: 3,466
    Chaotic Neutral
    jackjack said:

    In doing so, he thereby dismisses once and for all the silly, misguided notion that Lawful characters must always obey the laws of their land.

    Good point. I'd say a lawful person must follow either the laws of land or a strict personal code.

    Basically I agree with the people who stick to the descriptions of alignments that Baldur's Gate gives us, and disagree with the people that have tried to add to, change, or skew the meanings of those alignments to fit what they want themselves to be.

    I'm neutral good.

    I am neutral toward laws, meaning I'll follow the ones that make sense and ignore the ones i disagree with.

    And I'm good as opposed to evil. I want people to be happy, and want to help people who are in distress or unhappy.

    For me, it's as simple as that.

    Do you reckon that good intentions are enough? My intentions are generally good. Like you I want to help people, and for them to be happy, etc, but I'm very critical and demanding of myself. This makes me too humble to consider myself Good.
    Examples:
    I know there have been many moments where I chose for myself and disappointed others. I've quit various jobs more or less on impulse (= chaotic), even when people had invested in me and had certain expectations of me (= neutral). I've been in a few relationships in the past I knew deep down inside weren't going to work, wisdom I ignored, and because of it I've disappointed or even broken hearts unnecessarily. At the moment I live in a huge city where I face poverty in the form of quite many homeless people begging for money. I don't help every beggar that comes to me, and sometimes even struggle not to get annoyed, which I think is both Chaotic (inconsistent) and Neutral. I know I've improved in recent years, but there's still room for further improvement.

    In sum, I place the bar of goodness pretty high, and I think that good intentions alone do not suffice.

    TJ_Hookerdustbubsyjackjack
  • BlackravenBlackraven Member Posts: 3,466
    Chaotic Neutral
    CrevsDaak said:

    I said several times why I am CE, I'm somehow sadist (just psychologically, but still being one) and narcissist (same thing, it's not me, it's really me), and I break most of the rules everywhere, in school they say "don't use your cellphones", and I basically don't even use it at home, only at school :P, so I assume that I evil, and chaotic, so I am CE.
    I dislike giving things (physical things) to others because I think that you have to earn things by yourself, but I really enjoy helping other people.
    Indiana Jones is CG for me and Batman NG.

    Dude, I can't see you as CE. You're way too kind. The only way you could be CE, would be in Xzar kind of way. I wish all CE people were like Xzar or you. Evil wouldn't be a bad thing really.
    True evil is imo Nestlé CEO Peter Brabeck saying that "Acess to water shouldn't be a public right."

    DungeonnoobjackjackFinaLfront
  • jacobtanjacobtan Member Posts: 655
    edited May 2014
    True Neutral
    The alignment that Crevsdaak describes for himself is more indicative of CN rather than CE.

    Good and evil characters actively work to perpetuate the cause of good and evil respectively. For an evil person, it is typically described as:

    LE: plots to perpetuate personal power/benefit by using/abusing structures (social, legal or otherwise). If there are none they will install one that allows them to sit at the top. The "tyrant" archetype.

    NE: no qualms about using structures or bypassing them by applying brute force, so long as they reap the benefits they desire. Basically, anything that works best. The "mercenary" archetype.

    CE: they get whatever they desire by brute force and delight in malice and wanton destruction. They expand their influence and retain power by personal strength. Usually limited more by extents of personal power rather than structures. The "looter" archetype.

    Crevsdaak is none of these. Unless there are darker things not revealed here :)

    As an aside... @booinyoureyes‌, IMO Crowley is LE, Azazel is NE and Abaddon is CE :p

    Post edited by jacobtan on
    booinyoureyes
  • SCARY_WIZARDSCARY_WIZARD Member Posts: 1,431
    edited May 2014
    Neutral Good

    Dude, I can't see you as CE. You're way too kind. The only way you could be CE, would be in Xzar kind of way. I wish all CE people were like Xzar or you. Evil wouldn't be a bad thing really.

    I had a friend who was a poster child for "Affably Evil". He was given CE, except he behaved more like Eldoth and Montaron.
    My sister fluctuates between N, CN, and CG...

    Blackravenjackjack
  • TJ_HookerTJ_Hooker Member Posts: 2,438
    edited May 2014
    True Neutral

    Basically I agree with the people who stick to the descriptions of alignments that Baldur's Gate gives us, and disagree with the people that have tried to add to, change, or skew the meanings of those alignments to fit what they want themselves to be.

    I'm neutral good.

    I am neutral toward laws, meaning I'll follow the ones that make sense and ignore the ones i disagree with.

    And I'm good as opposed to evil. I want people to be happy, and want to help people who are in distress or unhappy.

    For me, it's as simple as that.

    But I really don't think the in-game descriptions actually do an adequate job defining the aligments. So I think it's less an issue of people twisting the defintions to suit themselves and more an issue of people trying to fill in the holes left by provided descriptions. For example, the descriptions for the good alignments actually seem to presuppose that the reader knows what "good" means to some extent. It only says something like:

    "strive for those things that will bring the greatest benefit to the most people, and cause the least harm" (LG)

    "marked by a streak of kindness and benevolence" (CG)

    Not exactly a precise definition.

    I would argue that perhaps you are doing the very thing that you claim others are doing. Seeing as how "good" is loosly defined, you seem to have decided on a definition that conveniently allows you to be categorized as good, namely one that is based on intentions/desires rather than actions.

    BlackravenjackjackCrevsDaak
  • BlackravenBlackraven Member Posts: 3,466
    Chaotic Neutral

    Dude, I can't see you as CE. You're way too kind. The only way you could be CE, would be in Xzar kind of way. I wish all CE people were like Xzar or you. Evil wouldn't be a bad thing really.

    I had a friend who was a poster child for "Affably Evil". He was given CE, except he behaved more like Eldoth and Montaron.
    My sister fluctuates between N, CN, and CG...
    Affably evil, the only type of evil that I could also befriend. I'm not surprised that the friendship didn't last though. I think many people fluctuate. I know I fluctuate between CN and CG.

    Btw I think Eldoth can be seen as affably evil, but Monty? That bugger seems way too violent and aggressive to me.

  • meaglothmeagloth Member Posts: 3,806
    Chaotic Good
    Wikipedia probably has the best descriptions of the alignments I've seen yet.

  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,302
    Chaotic Good
    I place really high value on goodness and independence, in combination. So CG it is for me.

    jackjack
  • CrevsDaakCrevsDaak Member Posts: 7,153
    edited May 2014
    Chaotic Evil

    CrevsDaak said:

    I said several times why I am CE, I'm somehow sadist (just psychologically, but still being one) and narcissist (same thing, it's not me, it's really me), and I break most of the rules everywhere, in school they say "don't use your cellphones", and I basically don't even use it at home, only at school :P, so I assume that I evil, and chaotic, so I am CE.
    I dislike giving things (physical things) to others because I think that you have to earn things by yourself, but I really enjoy helping other people.
    Indiana Jones is CG for me and Batman NG.

    Dude, I can't see you as CE. You're way too kind. The only way you could be CE, would be in Xzar kind of way. I wish all CE people were like Xzar or you. Evil wouldn't be a bad thing really.
    True evil is imo Nestlé CEO Peter Brabeck saying that "Acess to water shouldn't be a public right."
    That sounds like True silly, he is clearly saying that to get more money by making people pay for the water he is selling, and he is not putting himself in the position of a person from (for eg) Etiopia, who's dying of thirst and does not have money. That's capitalism and it's a synonym of evil (ans of unconsideration), but not all the synonyms are completely alike (have in mind that soviet communism is also evil (and synonym of machiavelism) and I am not anarchist either).

    Also, kindness has nothing to do with being evil, I don't think that torturing someone to death counterparts with helping others, that's a why (I never committed murdered nor tortured anyone, but I think that your own thinking influence more in your alignement than your acts, most of the actions I perform are against my own will).
    jacobtan said:

    The alignment that Crevsdaak describes for himself is more indicative of CN rather than CE.

    Crevsdaak is none of these. Unless there are darker things not revealed here :)

    I don't know what you think that makes me evil, but I can say that, yes,there are several things I haven't revelaed, I made things that are clearly evil and never felt regret.

    I dislike being manipulative, because I dislike to be forced to act against my will, so if someone needs help from me I would say that I will help, but if you give me an order I will reject even if I can and enjoy that task, and I expect such from others, something I mostly do not have in mind, I think how many things I blew up after throwing the bomb.

    My favorite examples of evil are Jon Irenicus, The Practical Incarnation, Evil (from Time Bandits) and all the real Sith characters from Star Wars.

    And this is all my personal opinion about my own mind (and related/mentioned topics).

    BlackravenjackjackFinaLfront
  • jacobtanjacobtan Member Posts: 655
    edited May 2014
    True Neutral
    Based on your clarification, CN for you sounds about right if we are merely considering your actions here and what you have shared. The C is so much more prominent than E that E almost appears like an afterthought. At most, CN(E). Full CE, no. You are not quite there yet. Remember - episodic non-good thoughts and actions do not equate evil. It has to be explicitly evil as we understand it, recurrent, sustained, grave, and the manifestation of the E typically becomes stronger with time, or becomes very obvious to people around you even if you are clueless.

    If you are thinking I am deluded to think you are CN when you are convinced you are CE... I approach this as an academic discussion of alignment with you as the subject - I am a classic N after all and I am not personally invested in you being CG/CN/CE or anything else for that matter. As an academic discussion, false or incomplete input can lead to wrong output :)

    As you grow older and meet more people, you will see a bigger representation of good, neutrality and evil, then maybe you will revise your opinions accordingly. Perhaps you could become full CE later, I do not know. I am not in the business of divination.

    Post edited by jacobtan on
  • meaglothmeagloth Member Posts: 3,806
    Chaotic Good
    @jacobtan‌, it's hopeless. I've had the same conversation with him at least twice. Give it a few years. Everybody but him knows he's CN, and I think he's just interpreting the system differently than most of us.

    FinaLfront
  • GreenWarlockGreenWarlock Member Posts: 1,354
    Lawful Neutral
    As a teen I tended strongly towards CG, although quickly drifted to NG which is still my ideal. Sadly, as I have aged, I realized that I have not so much drifted towards LG, and completely embraced LN, which is an alignment that really irks me. In my head, I am still NG, seeking the best outcome for all, but the reality is I am a follower of small-minded rules, and might (occasionally) seek to see those rules be for the benefit of society as a whole, in fact I am going to follow (if complain about) any arbitrary rule until it is changed.

    The running joke is that I would try to drive as an honest citizen when playing Grand Theft Auto - stop for the lights, no speeding, etc. The really sad thing is, when handed the game, that is exactly what happened! I was never invited to play again ;~)

    jackjackCrevsDaakMontresor_SPBelgarathMTH
  • jacobtanjacobtan Member Posts: 655
    True Neutral
    meagloth said:

    @jacobtan‌, it's hopeless. I've had the same conversation with him at least twice. Give it a few years. Everybody but him knows he's CN, and I think he's just interpreting the system differently than most of us.

    Oh, I do believe he could still be CE, that's why I included a disclaimer that the CN assessment is based on his actions and words here :)

    CrevsDaak
  • CrevsDaakCrevsDaak Member Posts: 7,153
    edited May 2014
    Chaotic Evil

    The running joke is that I would try to drive as an honest citizen when playing Grand Theft Auto - stop for the lights, no speeding, etc. The really sad thing is, when handed the game, that is exactly what happened! I was never invited to play again ;~)

    Don't worry, a friend of mine did not even drove because he was not sure if he had a driving license.

    jackjackGreenWarlockMontresor_SP
  • OneAngryMushroomOneAngryMushroom Member Posts: 564
    Chaotic Evil
    When I was young I liked to think I was neutral good, I did what my elders told me, I tried to stay out of trouble, failing quite often. That's when I thought I was chaotic good, but as time went on I became more and more apathetic to people around me and stopped caring about rules and what others thought about me and slipped gracefully into chaotic neutral. Now that I'm older and can look more introspectively I realize. I am nothing but the most reprehensible evil, the type of evil that is so evil that you catch yourself thinking. "I wonder what he'll do if we don't stop him?" Then you catch yourself and realize that's a horrible thought. That's the only thing that separates us from anarchy. A thin veneer of society and the self delusion of goodness.

    Or I've been reading to many Batman comics of late. Either way.

    jackjackFinaLfrontmeaglothlolien
  • CrevsDaakCrevsDaak Member Posts: 7,153
    Chaotic Evil
    meagloth said:

    jacobtan‌, it's hopeless. I've had the same conversation with him at least twice. Give it a few years. Everybody but him knows he's CN, and I think he's just interpreting the system differently than most of us.

    Our conversation was quite different, but I still thinking the same (that I am CE).
    I don't know if actions I make against my will influnce in my alignement or no, and also I've said more than once that G/N/E is a very objective idea (opinion-based).
    jacobtan said:

    Oh, I do believe he could still be CE, that's why I included a disclaimer that the CN assessment is based on his actions and words here :)

    I've said that I see myself as CE because of my thinkings and not actions, that should be causing the difference here.

    jacobtan
  • EmpyrialEmpyrial Member Posts: 107
    True Neutral
    I'm on the line between TN and LN, but I picked TN because I tend to exploit external rules to suit me more than straight up following them when I'm being pushed into a corner. This makes me trend more towards LE but I don't do it aggressively, only as a reactive measure.

    The description of TN in BG doesn't really fit with most people at all because it makes it sound like you do one good thing and then one bad thing to maintain balance, whereas the newer descriptions of TN open up the alignment to "does not care overmuch about the balance." I think that description fits me, because it also lists "good to your friends/bad to your enemies" and "follows rules when it suits you and because following them makes life easier" as other aspects of TN.

    I know my LN side comes into play because I have a very strong sense of personal ethics, and I can do "bad" things so long as they're justified by those ethics. I believe in right and wrong, but I also believe that right and wrong are completely subjective in that moment. A "good" decision can turn out bad in the future. We can only act on our hopes and logical assumptions.

    Ultimately, I care deeply about my friends and family, occasionally deeply hate my enemies but otherwise focus on my own little world. The balance will take care of itself.

    BelgarathMTH
  • FinaLfrontFinaLfront Member Posts: 260
    Chaotic Neutral
    @Gotural I agree with the point you are making here, but I think you in turn, would be surprised how many CN are out there.
    Gotural said:


    "Chaotic Neutral characters are extremely difficult to deal with."

    Are you really difficult to deal with ?

    "Such characters have been known to cheerfully and for no apparent purpose gamble away everything they have on the roll of a single die."

    Do you really do this ?! Are you playing your house and your family on online poker sites ?

    "They are almost totally unreliable. In fact, the only reliable thing about them is that they cannot be relied upon !"

    Woah that's incredible ! If a friend of yours give you a Rendez-Vous, are you going to come late, in advance or not to come at all just to not obey the rule ? Did you refuse to go to school because it was following what the society ordered ? Maybe I am a bit extrapolating here, but you undertand my point.


    Yes, I'm extremely difficult to deal with.

    No, I actually detest gambling with money, but doing something stupid for mere seconds of pleasure, yeah. When I was a kid, I used to steal cookies and drinks from the cafeteria, used to pilfer things out of other kids backpacks (while they were wearing them), all for the thrill. This probably attributes more to my abysmal wisdom score than anything though

    And yes, I am not reliable at all. I'll do things like say I'll go to a party, but never show up, not even bothering to call or text to let them know I wont be there. Which I found pisses people off. If you ask any of my friends one thing about me, they'd probably say, "Yeah, he's flaky as f*ck." <- Literally what they would say

    Another reason I define myself as Chaotic Neutral is that I feel the system we live in is corrupt, but make no effort to change it. I believe the monetary system is an outdated way of living, as of now, holding human civilization back. Once the middle class shrinks into oblivion, and american socioeconomic status measures up to the rest of the 3rd world countries, there will be a day of reckoning. Everyone will find out just how chaotic people really are.

    jackjack
  • jacobtanjacobtan Member Posts: 655
    True Neutral
    @CrevsDaak‌

    Your response to @meagloth‌ and me suggests that your understanding of ethics/morals and thought/behavior is not sound. There is little certainty, much confusion, and I describe your situation as a system with the necessary wiring in place but all connected wrongly with one another.

    For your own sake, I hope that there will be someone to guide you in RL to hone your thoughts, or friends who are able to spar with you intellectually like iron sharpens iron. Whatever alignment (as a generalization of one's ethics/morals) you choose to be is secondary, but may your thinking transcend superficiality :)

    meagloth
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,456
    True Neutral
    @jacobtan The dude's like 14, of course his mental development is not at an adult's level. Interesting discussion nonetheless.

    jacobtan
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