Rage Uses Per Day for Barbarian, Berserker Calculated Wrong...

FinalOgre

Description says "once per day per four levels, starts at level 1 with one use". An additional use should then be obtained at levels 4 and 8. Instead, you obtain the additional use at level 5 and (I'm assuming) 9. If I remember correctly, the original games calculated it as a use at level 1, and then 4, 8, 12, etc, and this is how they were calculated on through Neverwinter Nights (this goes for all use-per-day abilities for all classes).

I don't know if other use-per-day abilities with other classes are being incorrectly calculated the same way.

Interestingly, the Dwarven Defender's Defensive Stance use per day is correct.

FinaLfront

Starts at level one. Therefore 1+4=5+4=9 and so on

Troodon80

Believe it or not, the Barbarian Rage ability is done in exactly the same way as the original BG2. You get a second use at level 5 and a third use at level 9. I would assume, if anything, it is the Defensive Stance that is incorrect. Otherwise, this is a legacy bug from the original that was not fixed in the Enhanced Editions.

FinalOgre

FinaLfront said:

Starts at level one. Therefore 1+4=5+4=9 and so on

After testing out a few other classes (Kensai, Assassin, Clerics), they're also the same way; that is, 1+4=5+4=9. etc.

However, this is definitely NOT the way I remember it working in NWN and NWN2... Every 4 levels would mean you'd gain your second use at level 4, then level 8, etc.

Since the Dwarven Defender plays out this same way, I had assumed all the others were bugged/miscalculated...

Tresset

Hmm. We should probably change the Dwarven Defender to make it sync up with the other classes better.

Dee

The wording could pretty easily be adjusted to "Gains one use at level one, and an additional use every four levels thereafter"; Dwarven Defender would say "Gains one use at level one, and an additional use at level 4 and every four levels thereafter". The actual progressions don't need to be adjusted.

@Jalily, feel like taking a stab at it? Here's the list of affected kit descriptions:

- Berserker
- Kensai
- Dwarven Defender
- Ranger
- Archer
- Inquisitor
- Blackguard
- Priest of Talos
- Priest of Helm
- Priest of Lathander
- Totemic Druid
- Shapeshifter
- Thief
- Assassin
- Bounty Hunter
- Shadowdancer
- Blade
- Monk
- Dark Moon Monk
- Barbarian

FinalOgre

Any ideas how it's actually supposed to be? Am I right in remembering that the Neverwinter Nights games would refer to "every 4 levels" as level 1, level 4, level 8, etc? (I don't want to install them again just to find this out...)

Either way, of course, adjusting the wording would be an improvement.

FinaLfront

Yeah that's correct. It's like that in Temple of Elemental Evil as well.

Loub

It's actually difficult to decide due to the fact that 2e DnD has no tables detailing the progression of classes, unlike the more popular 3.X (0/5/P) - in fact, some of the kits had to actually be adapted (read: overhauled) for BG because their description was too confusing, some also had to be relocated to other classes because otherwise their bonuses were too small and didn't fit lorewise (for instance, the Archer, which was a fighter kit with the same bonuses as BG but exclusive to halflings, which was relocated to ranger to fit with the 3e depction of 'archer rangers').

FinalOgre

Thank you, Loub, that does help to shed some light on it. I suppose the best we can hope for is consistency from class to class, or at least very clear wording of what to expect...

It seems like the weapon proficiency system should have some bearing on this as well; fighters get 1 pip every 3 levels after 1st, and it's 1, 3, 6, 9, etc. Same for all other classes that I've seen; Rogues, every 4 levels: 1, 4, 8, etc and so forth... From a standpoint of precedence having been set, you would think a special use-per-day / level ability would follow the same logic.

Dee

It's the classic "Tables vs text" question--back when D&D 3.5 was being developed, a lot of arguments were started because the information in a given table didn't always match what the description of that table said. The general ruling from Wizards of the Coast was that with very few exceptions, the table is correct and the text is wrong.

It's the same situation here; if the ability is getting one use at level 1 and an additional use at level 5, 9, 13, 17, and so on every four levels, then "Every four levels" needs to be clarified.

The progression from one class, or one mechanic, doesn't necessarily dictate what the progression should be for every other class or mechanic. In general, what the class actually gets is correct, and it's just the kit description that needs adjusting.