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If I must. Becoming grammatical

24

Comments

  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,605
    edited May 2014
    Regarding the misuse of "of" in the modal constructions "should have", "would have", and "could have" in writing, besides the explanation given by @Troodon80‌, I believe the error also comes from incorrectly writing or hearing the contractions for those three constructions: "should've, would've, could've". The three contractions are pronounced identically to the misspelled versions using "of".

    Troodon80
  • Troodon80Troodon80 Member, Developer Posts: 4,110
    @BelgarathMTH, that still falls under the category of phonetics. :-)

    BelgarathMTH
  • Troodon80Troodon80 Member, Developer Posts: 4,110
    edited May 2014
    @Squire, I have encountered people who do that on the internet, but for the most part it is simple lack of thought. If you ask them for a shortened word that means 'do not,' then will say 'don't.' If you ask for a contracted version of 'they are,' they will say 'they're.' They know what it is, they simply do not care.

    jacobtanjackjackmeagloth
  • Troodon80Troodon80 Member, Developer Posts: 4,110
    @Squire, here's one for you: then and than. :-)

    jackjack
  • jackjackjackjack Member Posts: 3,251
    The only thing that gets under my skin is the "word" irregardless. It's either regardless or irrespective, but irregardless? So not a word.

    Troodon80JuliusBorisov
  • jacobtanjacobtan Member Posts: 655
    jackjack said:

    The only thing that gets under my skin is the "word" irregardless. It's either regardless or irrespective, but irregardless? So not a word.

    Sadly, it has already made its way into the lexicon, even if its use is informal.

    jackjackTroodon80
  • LoubLoub Member Posts: 471
    edited May 2014
    jackjack said:

    The only thing that gets under my skin is the "word" irregardless. It's either regardless or irrespective, but irregardless? So not a word.

    The opposite happened to me during a presentation when I used the word 'nonplussed', where I had to take out my dictionary-bible in search for it in order to prove it existed. Apparently some degenerates have corrupted it into a faux-neologism meaning "unfazed" when in reality it means the exact opposite, standing for 'utterly confused' - unfortunately, this corruption of its original meaning as well as denial of its legitimacy seem to be widespread, even among academics of the English language.

    jackjackBlackraven
  • NonnahswriterNonnahswriter Member Posts: 2,520
    Squire said:

    Troodon80 said:

    @Squire, here's one for you: then and than. :-)

    Heh...I haven't seen this mistake made much, actually. Although I have seen "affect" and "effect" often confused, which is similar. ;)

    Anyway, Nonnah already summed that one up.
    "Affect" is a verb and "effect" is a noun, if I recall correctly. So, for example:

    "The poison affected the fighter's battle stance."

    "They added some special effects to be flashy."

    "The fog clouded her lenses, drastically affecting her vision."

    "Please, booze has no effect on me."

    Then, of course, you have weird ones like "It's super effective!" that always manage to confuse me. Is "effective" a noun, or a verb, or is it something else entirely?? D:

    Stupid Pokemon.

    jackjackBlackravenmeaglothJuliusBorisov
  • jackjackjackjack Member Posts: 3,251
    I think effective is an adjective.

    JuliusBorisov
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,605
    edited May 2014
    I would say that sometimes, including in this very forum, people should be given the benefit of the doubt because of the awfulness of the autocorrect feature. There have been many times the darn program has "corrected" words like there, they're, their, two, too, your, you're, et al, to the wrong spelling while I try to type posts.

    BTW - In the sentence "It is effective," "effective" is an adjective used as a predicate nominative. The "It is predicate nominative" construction can be used in English with any adjective ("It is red." "It is soft." "It is delicious.") or noun, but if a noun is used, there must be an article ("It is a dog." "It is the newspaper." "It is an apple.") You can also use entire prepositional phrases as predicate nominatives ("It is in the kitchen." "It is on the roof." "It is above the clouds."), and you can modify adjectives with adverbs, or nouns with adjectives ("It is effective immediately." "It is mostly red." "It is a brown dog.") To add to the fun, verb participles may substitute for adjectives ("It is done." "It is slowly baking.") The predicate nominative structure is very useful in lots of languages, including English.

    jackjackTroodon80NonnahswriterJuliusBorisov
  • NonnahswriterNonnahswriter Member Posts: 2,520
    edited May 2014
    Squire said:

    I like the way "definately" is usually auto-corrected to "defiantly" - lots of people think "definitely" has an 'a' in it, but auto-correct more often thinks the person is trying to write "defiantly", when they're more usually trying to write "definitely".

    Definitely! (<--See what I did there?)

    Seriously though, it took me years before I finally figured out how to spell this damn word. =_= I hated it!

    jackjackCrevsDaakJuliusBorisov
  • FinaLfrontFinaLfront Member Posts: 260
    edited May 2014
    That reminds me of how I felt when I was a little kid learning to read and write. Learning of many words that were spelt differently than how they sounded, really pissed me off. I vowed that, "If I ever become president, I will change all words to be spelled exactly how they sound!" That was of course, my vast seven years of logic speaking.

    jackjackJuliusBorisovlolien
  • iuventasiuventas Member Posts: 95
    edited May 2014
    @Squire‌, hah. After almost a year of studying Danish I have to tell you that in comparison, English is a walk in the park.
    I love Danish, but at the same time all the reasons for it give me frequent headaches. There are sounds that simply don't exist in my native language (besides stød, which is a nightmare and I feel like a goose trying to use it), with a special place for the highest Y. I'm terrified of going to Denmark one day and discovering I ordered killing instead of kylling (kitten instead of chicken), because year ago I couldn't even hear the difference. It's there, though.

    There's my beloved mother tongue too, with all the lovely rustling sounds that are a nightmare to most foreigners and scarrry rolled RRR's:) At least our pronounciation is consistent with writing... The spelling is hard to learn for some, though. Mostly because we have sets of letters that sound the same, but look differently, for example:
    morze = sea
    może = maybe
    (also Pomorze = Pomerania, region in northern Poland
    pomoże = will help).
    I don't envy people who are trying to learn Polish...

    I have to admit this thread is very useful to me, because I know my English is something to laugh at. I'm trying, though!
    I always have problems with double letters (necessary is a good example) and with where to put "a", "an" and "the", because I either write them with every noun or not at all.

    JuliusBorisovNonnahswriterlolien
  • CrevsDaakCrevsDaak Member Posts: 7,152
    meagloth said:


    There are like 6-7 more syllables than nessecary in there.
    Necisary is the other word I can't spell

    That reminds me of how painful the word necessary is in spanish :P

    jackjack
  • meaglothmeagloth Member Posts: 3,806
    @iuventas‌ your English seems wonderful to me. I wouldn't have been able to tell you were from any specific place, or anywhere. Not primarily English. I'm in German in school, (2 years now) and it's quite hard. I can barely speak English!:P

    jackjackNonnahswriter
  • meaglothmeagloth Member Posts: 3,806
    @CrevsDaak‌ necesario? (As per google translate) that's not so bad, it looks just like it sounds, and there's no repeat letters. You just have to remember in what order the C and the S are.

    CrevsDaak
  • LoubLoub Member Posts: 471
    meagloth said:

    @iuventas‌ your English seems wonderful to me. I wouldn't have been able to tell you were from any specific place, or anywhere. Not primarily English. I'm in German in school, (2 years now) and it's quite hard. I can barely speak English!:P

    Well, at least you can communicate, unlike me.
    My own utter lack of charisma renders me unable to sway people with my words, mostly because my demeanor is so averse and alien to that of the average person I might as well call myself non-human.
    In general, no one likes me, and I like that fact - it's better to be hated for what you are than loved for what you are not.

    CrevsDaak
  • meaglothmeagloth Member Posts: 3,806
    Loub said:

    meagloth said:

    @iuventas‌ your English seems wonderful to me. I wouldn't have been able to tell you were from any specific place, or anywhere. Not primarily English. I'm in German in school, (2 years now) and it's quite hard. I can barely speak English!:P

    Well, at least you can communicate, unlike me.
    My own utter lack of charisma renders me unable to sway people with my words, mostly because my demeanor is so averse and alien to that of the average person I might as well call myself non-human.
    In general, no one likes me, and I like that fact - it's better to be hated for what you are than loved for what you are not.
    I would disagree with the last statement, but you seem to have pretty functional communication skills(or at least vocabulary) in text, @loub. Ability to communicate and ability to get people to enjoy said communication are somewhat separate.

    jacobtanlolien
  • CrevsDaakCrevsDaak Member Posts: 7,152
    meagloth said:

    Not primarily English. I'm in German in school, (2 years now) and it's quite hard.

    I learned some german when I was younger... I don't recall ANYTHING, but it's pretty complicated.
    meagloth said:

    You just have to remember in what order the C and the S are.

    That's the problem, it's confusing.
    And if you ask about my german, "ich bin Crevs Daak" and "mein Hund ist blau" are the only things I recall from german :P

    jackjackmeaglothlolien
  • jacobtanjacobtan Member Posts: 655
    @Loub‌

    Perhaps you have difficulty eliciting goodwill in person, but you should have an easier time on an online forum since you do not have to worry about body language and you can review what you write before you post. Contrary to what you wrote, there are ways to improve your demeanor (and improve your communication skills in general) - the question is whether you are willing to exercise some self-discipline to get there. How about trying these:

    1. Refrain from using big words and phrases like there is no tomorrow. A sprinkling here and there is fine, but not a barrage. It makes you look pompous at best, and ridiculous at worst. If your writing is forcing your reader to run to a dictionary or Wikipedia every minute or so, it just makes your writing a pain to read and distracts your reader from the message you are trying to get across.

    If you want an example from BG, think Kiser Jhaeri.

    2. Communicate at your level. I believe people are generally willing to give leeway on what they consider to be appropriate behavior, but if you bust these unspoken limits, you are in for trouble. For example, in an earlier thread, you had strong words for @CrevsDaak‌ about his views on life, and they were words that sounded like they came from a veteran in life instead of a teen. Like it or not, words of wisdom spoken by a 91-year old lose their power when spoken by a 19-year old, because you are not considered to have reached the stage in life that gives you the station and authority to speak them.

    I speak the above from experience, though mine was a case of a 26-year old speaking to a 62-year old :P

    3. Exercise sensitivity before you fire off. If you know that your demeanor is averse to people, then you already know what is distasteful to them and "lack of self-awareness" cannot be used as a defense. Should you continue with that behavior, it just shows that you are a person of poor self-control, callous disregard, or both. Neither is considered appealing to people. To get around this, you will have to discipline yourself to "think before you speak". If you prefer, you can call it "self-censorship for social appropriateness".

    Good communication is more than grammatical accuracy or linguistic training. It requires personal mastery of language and wisdom to apply linguistic techniques in appropriate ways in order to get the message across in the desired manner. Good luck.

    NonnahswriterlolienBelgarathMTHTresset
  • CrevsDaakCrevsDaak Member Posts: 7,152
    jacobtan said:

    "lack of self-awareness"

    That's probably one of the worst problems nowadays.
    I went to a library happily going to spend a 150$ pesos voucher a friend gave me for my birthday (plus some of my money), and happily spent them in some Michael Moorcock books I was looking after since several years ago.
    I checked in the computer/informatics section to see if there was anything about C or C++ (which I am trying to learn), and, found lots of books, guides and manuals about: Microsoft Office (eg powerpoint, excel, etc), how to use an iPhone 3GS (I have one, and it's VERY SIMPLE, like every software apple makes, it's very intuitive), and, a guide to........ Facebook.... and to twitter... I mean................... Is people SO degenerate?
    Pretty much that ended all my happiness.

    Sorry for derailing the thread, but I can't stand people who aren't intuitive enough to figure that you gotta press the button that says quit to quit the application, and learning C is... Not that easy :P

    @jacobtan‌ about what you are saying... I think that also applies for me in Real life....
    Loub said:


    My own utter lack of charisma renders me unable to sway people with my words, mostly because my demeanor is so averse and alien to that of the average person I might as well call myself non-human.
    In general, no one likes me, and I like that fact - it's better to be hated for what you are than loved for what you are not.

    THAT is me IRL, I insult people for them not being intuitive, for not walking as fast as I do, for not being wise enough and take drugs... Pretty much for whatever I consider wrong *and* I don't do it myself.
    /end of derailing this thread.

    jacobtanlolien
  • jacobtanjacobtan Member Posts: 655
    @CrevsDaak‌

    Both @Loub‌ and you are still very young. There is time for you to learn what you have to. :)

    jackjackNonnahswriterCrevsDaak
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