So glad that POS 4th ED is being dropped by WoTC and didnt get a game based on it..
pkloop
Member Posts: 113
Heck even WoTC employees said it was designed for a younger generation that lacks imagination..doesn't get PnP etc etc..
More based for the Call of Modern Warfare world of Warcraft duty part 13 crowd..hey maybe they can make BG3 a Facebook game and you can level up by unlocking achievements..:-)
More based for the Call of Modern Warfare world of Warcraft duty part 13 crowd..hey maybe they can make BG3 a Facebook game and you can level up by unlocking achievements..:-)
5
Comments
Also hate loathed and despised the everyone has LOADS of HP bit, yes in 2e and 3.5 Mages were squishy but damn everyone starting with 15+ HP min unless they had like a 5 con was just stupid, part of being a Fighter class was having more HP to tank better early on, but in 4e everyone had tons of HP, and difference between 15-18 con was like 2-3 HP...
One of the few things I did like was the Paragon/Epic Destinies those were cool...
As for pnp tabletop, I ran 4e for 3 years (just finished). Its slow in battle, makes you ad way more numbers than you'd care too, and required frequent and boring reading of abilities in the middle of a game session. It did have its charm, but not past level 15, and never in a game that isn't mainly about battles. Battle are tooo looong.
That said, I think 4e would make great video games, and I am constantly saddened by the fact it hasn't.
DISCLAIMER: Daggerdale was an awfully over-hyped and under-developed game. It had repetitive game-play with simplistic powers, and did not accurately represent 4e DnD, or DnD in general. It was simply a cheap game by a small company aimed at the XBox Live 10 dollar game market. I was very glad when they abandoned doing DLC for the game, and I am constantly surprised / upset when I see it advertised on the wizards site alongside any compliment, which last occurred when it was released on the PSN.
1/10 Would not bang.
also if you like mages, don't play one, it might make you sad, least did me...
As to the Neverwinter MMO, any game made by Cryptic is going to be awful on release, as all their releases have been so if I do ever try it, it won't be for quite a while after it comes out.
Please note that, since your criticisms were far too detailed for me to address directly, I have done my best to divine what were likely some of your issues with the system.
*clears his throat*
I am deeply sorry that did not enjoy 4th Edition.
I understand that there are an amazing number of roleplayers who, when presented with mechanics for a decent game, suddenly shrivel and become unable to summon forth even a modicum of creative thought. Somehow, creativity seems to flee when summoning whales in mid-air to drop on enemies or Conjuring Water directly into lungs (actions that have stepped so far over the creativity line that they've wrapped all the way back around into the abusive and stupid line) are removed from the equation. I know it must be difficult to only be creative when you have absolutely 0 restrictions and free reign to do whatever you want.
I also regret that you are unable to do anything but pointlessly cling to the past and realize that a number of the sacred cows of DnD, while so ingrained in our subculture, are, in fact, completely terrible ideas. I realize that a number of people may find the Fighter/Caster dynamic fun, for example, but the fact is that operating off two completely different design paradigms is incredibly poor design and does little to promote interesting gameplay and does far more to create GM headaches and player annoyance.
I am sorry that, somehow, non-caster classes possessing abilities that allow them to act like fantastic heroes (as you would expect in a game of swords and sorcery) somehow offends your sensibilities. It has always baffled me why people do not seem to believe that, while mages can learn abilities that rend reality itself asunder, those of a more martial bent cannot manage anything more impressive than poking the dragon in the foot. I'm also sad that you tend to write this off as OMG ANIME or OMG WORLD OF WARCRAFT when, in fact, this concept actually draws from classic mythology and stories.
I sympathize with you regarding low durability and Save or Die effects. After all, in a roleplaying game, nothing spiced up a long campaign like the survival of a character you have spent significant time developing and making a part of the world depending on a single, randomly generated number instead of taking into account your cunning, strategy, and capabilities. And, of course, the ability to be poked to death by a goblin with a spear before you take your first action at level 1 was very exciting and encouraged spending a great deal of time in thinking about and developing new characters on creation. I always loved putting real effort into background for a GM, only to die to a lucky crit because the game wants to be rocket tag at half its levels, slugfest at the other half.
I am also sorry that the best you can come up with is to lump the 4th Edition system into the Call of "Modern Warfare world of Warcraft duty part 13." Honestly, this speaks far more about your maturity then anything else, as you immediately lump anything you do not like under this heading to demean it and anyone else who likes it because they actually decided to put some thought into the G part of RPG. Also, your comparison to World of Warcraft is, of course, quite clever. Setting aside the fact that the system has very little to do with World of Warcraft and instead draws heavy inspiration from Strategy RPGs, board games, and tactical miniatures games.
Seriously man.
Grow up.
Does 4th Edition have problems? Yeah. Is 4th Edition the game for you? Probably not. Do I have a problem with that? No. I certainly don't expect everyone to like it, especially when it does deviate so heavily from the sacred cows of classic DnD. That sort of thing tends to be polarizing.
So go ahead and level critically thought out criticisms of 4th Edition. The system did have problems. The tighter balance choked some player choice elements too hard. The math, while significantly improved over 3.X, still had flaws in it. Etc, etc.
Coming here to the EE forums to trash talk a part of YOUR community is pretty shit though. I AM a fellow RPer (although I'd much rather not have myself associated with you). I'm a fellow Baldur's Gate lover (although, again, I'd much rather not be lumped in the same fanbase as you). I liked 4th Edition for a variety of reasons and thought that it did a good job of addressing some fundamental flaws in DnD in general (a lot of them relating to the fact that the "game" was never really well thought out).
To see a thread title like this seriously annoyed me and, on the whole, made me think a lot less of this community on the whole.
I understand it's much more simplified? Well, I think the biggest earnings come if you make a product that appeals to kids as well as adults. If you do that, you win.
So go ahead and level critically thought out criticisms of 4th Edition. The system did have problems. The tighter balance choked some player choice elements too hard. The math, while significantly improved over 3.X, still had flaws in it. Etc, etc."
I have no problem with disliking 4th Edition. Just have some rationale and class about it.
Wait a minute - what if you still are?
Basically everything above "Seriously man" is trollish reversal of the "WAAAAH 4th ED IS SO BAD" by being incredibly snarky about previous editions' design choices (although I'd say I still level enough potential for actual discussion re: merits and demerits of certain elements of previous editions).
Starting from "Seriously man" is more of a legit explanation of my issues with the OP, which mostly has to do with parroting hateful comments and starting shit in a place where it doesn't have a reason to be started.
I'm just not in a mood to tolerate the OP's brand of BS this morning.
By Moradin's hammer, you're my hero. I wish I had been able to write something half as excellent as your initial comment, but I was too busy seething with rage.
I'm glad some people in this thread have the sense to be reasonable about editions. Whether 4E like it or not, "lol we all know this is awful, right, I don't need to explain why" is not a valid form of criticism. Further, as you say, this forum isn't ABOUT D&D or its editions. It's about a game that happens to use the AD&D ruleset. This isn't the place for an edition war, and even if it were, edition wars are absolutely moronic.