@abacus - LOL. I get your logic. And it makes sense. Just saying IRL, would you walk around with the equivalent of say $500,000 in diamonds and jewels in your pocket? It's meta-gaming to realize that these gems can not be pick-pocketed. Therefore although it is easier to carry than $500,000 in coins, it is also easier to have stolen (unless you are meta-gaming).
And for traps, a Sorcerer can be immune to traps from level 6 (Mirror Image + Minor Spell Deflection/Minor Globe of Invulnerability) and it get better and better with time (With Stoneskin + Spelltrap, no traps can hurt you (no pun intended)), HP doesn't matter with traps.
I don't really see this strategy fit into a supposedly non-metagamed playthrough. The Sorcerer would have to know when to protect him against traps. Would the Sorcerer who just cleared the heavily protected Bandit Camp think about protecting him against the trap on the chest in Tazok's Tent? Also, I find that an Illusion spell like Mirror Image should not fool a mechanical device such as a trap, so I wouldn't use that spell.
@Lemernis, I agree that an ultracautious approach is Charname's only hope to survive bandits, monsters, bounty hunters, Iron Throne hirelings and other perils. Hence, my conclusion that some kind of Thief multiclass makes the most sense, for stealth and trap detection. Your 'Fates' playthrough is not exactly the same thing as what I'm looking for with this playthrough. For example, in your game, the interaction between the NPCs is a fundamental aspect, and I think your Good-aligned Diviner is relatively interested by the main plot. My ultracautious TN Gnomish Fighter/Illusionist/Thief (am going to try with that class first) won't be interested in solving the Iron Crisis or investigating the bounty hunters that are after her. She's more likely to lay low.
@Eadwyn_G8keeper, yes a duo run makes good sense. I might try that with the Barbarian/Druid and a Thief/Mage (probably edit one of the NPCs that way).
@abacus, good idea: travel with gems, and never with lots of gold.
@abacus - LOL. I get your logic. And it makes sense. Just saying IRL, would you walk around with the equivalent of say $500,000 in diamonds and jewels in your pocket? It's meta-gaming to realize that these gems can not be pick-pocketed. Therefore although it is easier to carry than $500,000 in coins, it is also easier to have stolen (unless you are meta-gaming).
Huge, whopping great sacks of bullion draw attention (leaving aside the logistics of carrying them), whilst a small pouch, secreted within ones clothing, is much more discrete.
Many years ago, my first DM taught us that gems are indeed better than coin. You need a chariot to carry thousands of coin, but when you enter in a dungeon.... Who's guardind it? When you're fighting bandits, who's preventing one of them from stealing a bag of coins? If your horses die, who's going to drag the chariot? Gems are your friend, and you don't need to sell them unless you have to buy something.
@Blackraven It depends, this one chest is locked, and an intelligent character truely living in the forgotten realms should know that many chests are trapped, most especially if the chest is locked.
IMO it isn't metagaming, roleplaying wise maybe your character won't check for traps at first, but he will avoid death one time, he will start getting paranoid and prebuff like mad before opening every doors.
In real life if a car nearly run over you, you will likely become afraid of cars, or at least more perceptive of the danger, and will double check before crossing the street for example.
Once again, I think a real no metagaming playthrought with a character with at least 10 Int should involve MORE prebuffing than we do in our normal runs, because we know where to use our buffs, but we also know where to avoid wasting our buffs, while our character doesn't. A typical adventurer, let's say a Sorcerer, who can't detect traps, is likely to have Mirror Image and a Spell Deflection active at all time in a dungeon, simply because if he doesn't, he could die from a trap or an ambush, and he doesn't want that, of course. Before level 6 it could be tedious I agree and the character should know that his spells are limited and really don't last long.
@Gotural, the chest isn't locked, and with the bandit camp staff around (until you slay them) there is no reason imo to suspect a trap. I do agree with you that after opening this specific chest, paranoia may kick in (Though I still wouldn't use Mirror Image against traps.)
@Lemernis, I agree that an ultracautious approach is Charname's only hope to survive bandits, monsters, bounty hunters, Iron Throne hirelings and other perils. Hence, my conclusion that some kind of Thief multiclass makes the most sense, for stealth and trap detection.
Your 'Fates' playthrough is not exactly the same thing as what I'm looking for with this playthrough. For example, in your game, the interaction between the NPCs is a fundamental aspect, and I think your Good-aligned Diviner is relatively interested by the main plot. My ultracautious TN Gnomish Fighter/Illusionist/Thief (am going to try with that class first) won't be interested in solving the Iron Crisis or investigating the bounty hunters that are after her. She's more likely to lay low.
Okies, I get where you're coming from for this particular game. But the broader issue of roleplaying what one would/could know re: the enemy's tactics is still interesting to think through. I mean regardless of how heroic the protagonist, there's the whole question of what the character would reasonably be able to anticipate tactically.
@Dungeonnoob: That would be an interesting class, but impossible to create as it consists of two kits. Why do you think it could be a contender for best defensive character? @Lemernis, exactly. This playthrough is mostly about being ignorant about enemy's tactics, their spells, etc. A character with high INT/WIS could be attributed certain insight re: monsters and their attacks and re: high level spells, but that's all. Do you have any tricks/tips to prevent going through parts of the game in 'cruise control' mode, making sure that Charname's every step and decision is actually made by Charname makes (be it consciously or unconciously), not by the Player?
That would be an interesting class, but impossible to create as it consists of two kits. Why do you think it could be a contender for best defensive character?
Maybe not the best defensive,but it got style points:) and there some nice throwing axes in-game from what I've read in this great forum.I only finished BGEE so i don't know much about Shadows of Amn and Throne of bhaal yet.
@Lemernis, exactly. This playthrough is mostly about being ignorant about enemy's tactics, their spells, etc. A character with high INT/WIS could be attributed certain insight re: monsters and their attacks and re: high level spells, but that's all. Do you have any tricks/tips to prevent going through parts of the game in 'cruise control' mode, making sure that Charname's every step and decision is actually made by Charname makes (be it consciously or unconciously), not by the Player?
Actually, the thing that has kept me most 'honest' has been journaling the roleplay, even if I sometimes weary of the commitment that that requires. You may want to save that for a run where you plan specifically to do that intensively, though.
I can't really think of anything beyond just trying to maintain an awareness of the game's unfolding events through the eyes of the character... And then too imagining how the character takes stock of various incidents after they've happened, as obviously that affects future decisions. There will be some unavoidable meta-gaming in order to complete the game, as we know: the chapter completion quests. But as to anticipating the enemy's tactics, of course you'll just have to get inside the head of the character.
What I found is that I could not resist imagining how other party members would react or respond to various events as well. What would their input be? So it became more of a group-think process.
Try a Dwarven defender... I Have won boss mage battles by exhausting the mage of his spells than hacking them down to size after... You get stocked with minor healing and poison removal.... You survive most traps due to your obnoxious amount of life.... I'm no expert tho.. Just tossing advice.... Plus you can hurl axes from defensive stance
I 100% agree with everything already mentioned by @Pibaro.
It is a pretty old game, but sometimes it hat to be remembered: MAGIC is the best offensive AND defensive source. It's not a matter of personal tastes, it's just about game machanics.
@Blackraven@Lemernis One way to implement a more realistic playthrough without quite as much extra work as true journaling would require: Get some of the advanced voice recognition software available these days and mutter into your headphones continually. I seem to recall that the best version has Dragon somewhere in its name. More and more writers are using them to make their first drafts these days.
I have a free Dragon speech-to-text app on both my iPhone and iPad, and it's actually pretty darned impressive. There may be a file conversion of some sort necessary on the iPad; but then I could just put one of those Dragon dictated files in Dropbox and pull it up from there on the desktop computer. I'd still feel compelled to edit it because I love the craft of story writing. It's a good idea @Eadwyn, and it could save some time. Thanks.
I actually don't mind the process of writing as I go in Word, but it just requires relatively large blocks of leisure time if I want to complete whole chapters at a go.
BG 2 You can solo anything with a sorcerer, just use plenty of summoning spells and AOE's like fireballs, defensive stuff for the sorc, stoneskin/mirror image and spell shields.
Soloing dragons used to be a fun distraction for me in the old days. Though final form Kangaxx at close quarters was tough, (I think I used to back out onto the street) until you know how to cheese him, same goes for the dragons I guess.
In the old days before I knew all the easy tricks, I would trade spells using protections, and monster summons with the dragons one on one, was fun stuff.
As for the blurb about traps - summon spells deal with a lot of them, just have a minion out front all the time taking the hits, resistances etc deal with the rest. Having a tank out front as a sorc solo should be a standard practice anyway.
As for the blurb about traps - summon spells deal with a lot of them, just have a minion out front all the time taking the hits, resistances etc deal with the rest. Having a tank out front as a sorc solo should be a standard practice anyway.
Ahm... I've been 99,99% sure summons don't activate traps...
As for the blurb about traps - summon spells deal with a lot of them, just have a minion out front all the time taking the hits, resistances etc deal with the rest. Having a tank out front as a sorc solo should be a standard practice anyway.
Ahm... I've been 99,99% sure summons don't activate traps...
Even if that, you can always stack Stoneskin+Spell Trap, or just use a scroll of Protection from Magic if you like. Edit: or just stack 100% MR.
As I see things, even if Summons did activate traps, this would be irrelevant for purpose of the current thread, which is about a non-metagamed character. Likewise, Mirror Image and Spell Trap could not be used. (Stoneskin is different as it lasts much longer.) A Sorcerer would die opening Tazok's chest or pursuing Sarevok through the maze. In other words being a Thief or part Thief is a must.
A Sorcerer could die opening Tazok's chest that's true. But I definitely don't think this same Sorcerer will go in the maze without pre-buffing.
He probably ate a lot of traps until now so he must be kind of paranoid, this maze is located under the Thieves's guild and IIRC someone told you this place is trapped, and you can simply "feel it". I mean the first time I did the maze, I knew there was a lot of traps simply because of the looks of the place, a dark maze, to pursue the vilain, etc ...
That's why the chest in Tazok's tent is dangerous, because it seems "friendly", you just finished a hard fight, you aren't thinking about a trap, especially in a simple tent.
@Gotural, what about the petrification in the sewer ara below the Copper Coronet leading to the Slaver Stockade, the traps at the Tanner's, the (admittedly optional) Guarded Compund? I find it more than a bit of a stretch for a Sorcerer to always "feel" danger at the right time.
@Blackraven The Tanner's house is so full of traps, yet they aren't lethal IIRC. If you have Stoneskin active you should survive.
But you are totally true about the one in the sewer, it would depends pretty much on luck. The first time I did it, my character was still protected by Minor Spell Deflection from the previous fight with the Hobgoblins.
But is a Thief going to be more effective ? Let's be honest, no one, new players or not, let the Find Trap ability actives at all times, because we know where traps are, and because it's tedious and slow to do so.
If the character is clever, he will use his Find Trap ability before opening any chests, like the one in Tazok's tent. But after going through the Copper Coronot, where they are no traps, I don't think you would suspect a trap on this little door/bridge.
I'm pretty sure a majority of first time players get caught by this trap yet they had a Thief in their party, I could be totally wrong though, but that's how I feel it.
To conclude, I'm not sure being a Thief will prevent you from being hit by all traps, if you truely don't metagame.
Comments
@Lemernis, I agree that an ultracautious approach is Charname's only hope to survive bandits, monsters, bounty hunters, Iron Throne hirelings and other perils. Hence, my conclusion that some kind of Thief multiclass makes the most sense, for stealth and trap detection.
Your 'Fates' playthrough is not exactly the same thing as what I'm looking for with this playthrough. For example, in your game, the interaction between the NPCs is a fundamental aspect, and I think your Good-aligned Diviner is relatively interested by the main plot. My ultracautious TN Gnomish Fighter/Illusionist/Thief (am going to try with that class first) won't be interested in solving the Iron Crisis or investigating the bounty hunters that are after her. She's more likely to lay low.
@Eadwyn_G8keeper, yes a duo run makes good sense. I might try that with the Barbarian/Druid and a Thief/Mage (probably edit one of the NPCs that way).
@abacus, good idea: travel with gems, and never with lots of gold.
You need a chariot to carry thousands of coin, but when you enter in a dungeon.... Who's guardind it?
When you're fighting bandits, who's preventing one of them from stealing a bag of coins?
If your horses die, who's going to drag the chariot?
Gems are your friend, and you don't need to sell them unless you have to buy something.
IMO it isn't metagaming, roleplaying wise maybe your character won't check for traps at first, but he will avoid death one time, he will start getting paranoid and prebuff like mad before opening every doors.
In real life if a car nearly run over you, you will likely become afraid of cars, or at least more perceptive of the danger, and will double check before crossing the street for example.
Once again, I think a real no metagaming playthrought with a character with at least 10 Int should involve MORE prebuffing than we do in our normal runs, because we know where to use our buffs, but we also know where to avoid wasting our buffs, while our character doesn't. A typical adventurer, let's say a Sorcerer, who can't detect traps, is likely to have Mirror Image and a Spell Deflection active at all time in a dungeon, simply because if he doesn't, he could die from a trap or an ambush, and he doesn't want that, of course. Before level 6 it could be tedious I agree and the character should know that his spells are limited and really don't last long.
Okies, I get where you're coming from for this particular game. But the broader issue of roleplaying what one would/could know re: the enemy's tactics is still interesting to think through. I mean regardless of how heroic the protagonist, there's the whole question of what the character would reasonably be able to anticipate tactically.
I used throwing axes,it was fun but hard to lv up.
@Lemernis, exactly. This playthrough is mostly about being ignorant about enemy's tactics, their spells, etc. A character with high INT/WIS could be attributed certain insight re: monsters and their attacks and re: high level spells, but that's all. Do you have any tricks/tips to prevent going through parts of the game in 'cruise control' mode, making sure that Charname's every step and decision is actually made by Charname makes (be it consciously or unconciously), not by the Player?
I can't really think of anything beyond just trying to maintain an awareness of the game's unfolding events through the eyes of the character... And then too imagining how the character takes stock of various incidents after they've happened, as obviously that affects future decisions. There will be some unavoidable meta-gaming in order to complete the game, as we know: the chapter completion quests. But as to anticipating the enemy's tactics, of course you'll just have to get inside the head of the character.
What I found is that I could not resist imagining how other party members would react or respond to various events as well. What would their input be? So it became more of a group-think process.
It is a pretty old game, but sometimes it hat to be remembered: MAGIC is the best offensive AND defensive source.
It's not a matter of personal tastes, it's just about game machanics.
Actually, I just Googled for it! ~Dragon Naturally Speaking from Nuance. Not sure how much it costs. Check that $120 for the Premium Version and it is on a 40% Sale right now at the official Nuance store.
http://www.google.com/aclk?sa=l&ai=C5Q0RomWkU-WWEIfKswewhYHwBbjU5sQEiPCk2mzVq_UHCAAQASgCUKjblML8_____wFgycajiqSkxBGgAZDl2vQDyAEBqgQoT9AbiBRjcqLGVK63tpqIqoKimnhtGoogayPCQSsHJQtDd7XPDPTZ6IAH2JqlC5AHAw&sig=AOD64_3JVfQOm3zg4qmDdRR3EEMfBDmDsQ&rct=j&q=&ved=0CCAQ0Qw&adurl=http://5015.xg4ken.com/media/redir.php?prof=33&camp=2836&affcode=kw12861&cid=29166152896&networkType=search&kdv=c&url[]=http%3A%2F%2Fshop.nuance.com%2Fstore%2Fnuanceus%2FCustom%2Fpbpage.resp-dragon-home-bf-2013-digital%3Futm_medium%3Dps%26utm_source%3Dgoogle%26utm_campaign%3Ddragon%26utm_term%3Ddragon%20speech%26cvokeywordid%3D12861%26cvosrc%3Dps.Google.dragon%20speech
I actually don't mind the process of writing as I go in Word, but it just requires relatively large blocks of leisure time if I want to complete whole chapters at a go.
Soloing dragons used to be a fun distraction for me in the old days. Though final form Kangaxx at close quarters was tough, (I think I used to back out onto the street) until you know how to cheese him, same goes for the dragons I guess.
In the old days before I knew all the easy tricks, I would trade spells using protections, and monster summons with the dragons one on one, was fun stuff.
As for the blurb about traps - summon spells deal with a lot of them, just have a minion out front all the time taking the hits, resistances etc deal with the rest. Having a tank out front as a sorc solo should be a standard practice anyway.
Edit: or just stack 100% MR.
He probably ate a lot of traps until now so he must be kind of paranoid, this maze is located under the Thieves's guild and IIRC someone told you this place is trapped, and you can simply "feel it".
I mean the first time I did the maze, I knew there was a lot of traps simply because of the looks of the place, a dark maze, to pursue the vilain, etc ...
That's why the chest in Tazok's tent is dangerous, because it seems "friendly", you just finished a hard fight, you aren't thinking about a trap, especially in a simple tent.
But you are totally true about the one in the sewer, it would depends pretty much on luck. The first time I did it, my character was still protected by Minor Spell Deflection from the previous fight with the Hobgoblins.
But is a Thief going to be more effective ? Let's be honest, no one, new players or not, let the Find Trap ability actives at all times, because we know where traps are, and because it's tedious and slow to do so.
If the character is clever, he will use his Find Trap ability before opening any chests, like the one in Tazok's tent. But after going through the Copper Coronot, where they are no traps, I don't think you would suspect a trap on this little door/bridge.
I'm pretty sure a majority of first time players get caught by this trap yet they had a Thief in their party, I could be totally wrong though, but that's how I feel it.
To conclude, I'm not sure being a Thief will prevent you from being hit by all traps, if you truely don't metagame.