Only one party make sense...

Daelric

I found it extremely frustrating and disappointing that at the start of Baldur' Gate 2, you were assumed to have had kept Imoen, Khalid, Jaheira, Minsc, and Dynaheir in your party all throughout BG1. It was illogical to have anyone else and the story wouldn't have matched and would have made no sense.

I do hope this is changed when the BG2: EE come out next year... before you start the game during the import process you could choose which companions you had with you in BG1, that way it makes more sense and I could experience more of the NPC companions.

I dunno who else agrees but that always bothered me very much.

Moomintroll

That would be super awesome.

Shin

Aye, this has been brought up before and would indeed be a good addition. Since save files contain information about the current party, it could likely be implemented as part of importing your game to BG2 without you having to select anything.
And while on it, it would also be nice if the game then kept track of changes you had made to those characters, such as their proficiencies, memorized spells, if you had given them stat tomes, etc.

Gaara

Shin said:

Aye, this has been brought up before and would indeed be a good addition. Since save files contain information about the current party, it could likely be implemented as part of importing your game to BG2 without you having to select anything.
And while on it, it would also be nice if the game then kept track of changes you had made to those characters, such as their proficiencies, memorized spells, if you had given them stat tomes, etc.

reason why I didn t waste tomes on other characters (even the useless ones [for me as a fighter] like INT or WIS)

happslapp

i have always thought that was dumb. id be fine if the game randomly choose who irenicus killed off at the beginning of the game from my party from BG1, just as long as it didnt make assumptions about my party from the game before.

g314

As I said before, I wholeheartedly support this. But AFAIK, there are some issues. Here's Overhaul's current plan about this matter:

PhillipDaigle said:

While it's a bit early to talk about BG2EE content, it's likely that we will be bringing these three NPCs forward into BG2. As for other NPCs - we most likely won't be bringing any of them into BG2 that aren't already there. And as for where you find the new NPCs in BG2, that is still under wraps.

Daelric

PhillipDaigle said:

While it's a bit early to talk about BG2EE content, it's likely that we will be bringing these three NPCs forward into BG2. As for other NPCs - we most likely won't be bringing any of them into BG2 that aren't already there. And as for where you find the new NPCs in BG2, that is still under wraps.

So, in other words they aren't changing this issue...

Well, looks like I'm gunna have to use the same party again

happslapp

to get around it i always assumed that my BG1 party was split up and Irenicus brought select people in from my past

GoodSteve

This was always my biggest grief with BG2 aswell. There was such a large selection of NPC's in BG1 compared to BG2. So not only does BG2 give you less options for party members it tries to pidgeonhole you into taking a certain party every time in BG1... that's dirty pool and I want no part of it.

Adjusting your starting party for BG2 based on the ending of BG1 would make me one happy panda.

fighter_mage_thief

That sounds like a lot of coding for something you can just "pretend" happened. Why not ditch Jaheira and Minsc after the dungeon in BG2, pick up Edwin, Viconia, or whoever, and then pretend they were there with you instead? But hey, I'm all for more storyline. I think BG2 was the better game, and think alternative stories for characters like Minsc or Jaheira would be interesting, like what they were up to since you never travelled together. Their partners might also still be alive...

It would be interesting to have Xzar or Xan along though, which are not options in BG2 without either cheats or creating them in a multiplayer game.

masteraleph

For however they export things to BG2EE, I'd like to see the party information included, even if they don't include those characters. Doing so would make it easy for modders to incorporate such things into their mods- the Kivan mod over at Gibberlings 3, or the Xan mod, would both be great targets for that.

mlnevese

I think the can't change original content, just add new content to the game due to a contract clause. So they can't change who starts with you.

My personal theory on how those people ended beiong in the dungeon with you is that Irenicus captured those who would have reason to be tracking you, The Rashemen Witch and the Harper. The others just happened to be with them.

g314

KryptBeowulf said:

PhillipDaigle said:

While it's a bit early to talk about BG2EE content, it's likely that we will be bringing these three NPCs forward into BG2. As for other NPCs - we most likely won't be bringing any of them into BG2 that aren't already there. And as for where you find the new NPCs in BG2, that is still under wraps.

So, in other words they aren't changing this issue...

Well, looks like I'm gunna have to use the same party again





Do not despair. As I can see it, there are three ways:

1. Get more people involved in petitioning Overhaul to include BG1 NPCs (a poll comes to mind),
2. Petition Overhaul to include them as a post-release DLC,
3. Download new fan-made mods. There are some of them for the original BG2 already.

Sceptenar

It is highly unlikely that the starting npcs will change given how strict the contractual limitations are.

drawnacrol

This would alter the vanilla story and breach their contract:(

shawne

The problem is that once you start messing with the opening sequence, you could potentially derail BG2's NPCs. For example, say you didn't take Jaheira and Khalid with you, and they're not captured by Irenicus. Jaheira's entire storyline in BG2 then becomes moot. The same goes for Minsc: if Dynaheir is still alive, he has no reason to become the protector of Aerie or Nalia.

Daelric

shawne said:

The problem is that once you start messing with the opening sequence, you could potentially derail BG2's NPCs. For example, say you didn't take Jaheira and Khalid with you, and they're not captured by Irenicus. Jaheira's entire storyline in BG2 then becomes moot. The same goes for Minsc: if Dynaheir is still alive, he has no reason to become the protector of Aerie or Nalia.

Believe me, I understand this completely, and I agree and understand what all of you have said... nevertheless, I can't believe this was even an issue and how they could have allowed such a flaw in the first place.

I mean, you think the series is replayable now? IMAGINE the replayability if you could have imported your party from the first game and given them their own dialogue in the dungeon and connected all the other NPCs in some extravagant web of possibilities... I'm sure it would have been EXTREMELY complicated but it would have a masterful work of storytelling... OH just thinking about it makes me............... I have to go to the bathroom..

Metal_Hurlant

First time I played BG2, I found it odd that I had two characters in my party that I never took out in BG1, being Minsc and Dynaheir. When I went back to play BG1 with the party that eventually goes through to BG2, I found it a great experience to use those characters.

If you don't use the canon party, then you can always come up with a story of why you have previous members in BG1 that have been captured or don't turn up in BG2. Once I did that, I never thought about it again.

cattlekiller

BG 2 was so huge in size and scope , adding this option would have been insanely cool , but very time consuming to factor in all party combinations.Plus you have to tie a story to each which in turn would change something later in the game.

For instance I truly hated Imoen and she has never survived the woods outside candlekeep in any of my games I played.Just think how weird my BG 2 game would start with this option?Most likely would have never escaped Irenicus being Imoen was dead, how the writers explain that one would be epic. But at the same time the writers would be working serious overtime trying to tie in each npc and story.

All in all I was pretty happy how BG 2 started.I would not have had Imoen save the CHARNAME at the start of course , and would have had Tiax at my side once more after I found him in Spellhold.But after playing some really shallow story RPG"s over the years BG 1 and 2, still blows them away.

JediMindTrix

I would honestly rather they spend their resources doing something else >.<

shawne

KryptBeowulf said:

Believe me, I understand this completely, and I agree and understand what all of you have said... nevertheless, I can't believe this was even an issue and how they could have allowed such a flaw in the first place.

I mean, you think the series is replayable now? IMAGINE the replayability if you could have imported your party from the first game and given them their own dialogue in the dungeon and connected all the other NPCs in some extravagant web of possibilities... I'm sure it would have been EXTREMELY complicated but it would have a masterful work of storytelling... OH just thinking about it makes me............... I have to go to the bathroom..

See, I don't think it's a flaw at all; I think it was quite deliberate. Consider that if you could reassemble your BG1 party in BG2, you'd have very little reason to try out the other NPCs and thus miss out on a lot of content. That's why Khalid, Dynaheir and Imoen are off the table right at the start, to encourage you to go out into Athkatla and meet new people.

shawne

Oops, double post.

Schneidend

Yeah, Bioware really dropped the ball for the start of BG2, both with the NPCs involved and the player's motivations. Irenicus' dungeon should have been balanced for just the PC and Imoen (even if she wasn't in your party, Irenicus still would have captured her because of her lineage), and Irenicus should have stolen your souls just before the Shadow Thieves attacked. Then boom, you get to have the cool Slayer transformation from day 1 and you have an undeniable reason to go to Spellhold and kill Irenicus.

Djimmy

KryptBeowulf said:

I found it extremely frustrating and disappointing that at the start of Baldur' Gate 2, you were assumed to have had kept Imoen, Khalid, Jaheira, Minsc, and Dynaheir in your party all throughout BG1. It was illogical to have anyone else and the story wouldn't have matched and would have made no sense.

I do hope this is changed when the BG2: EE come out next year... before you start the game during the import process you could choose which companions you had with you in BG1, that way it makes more sense and I could experience more of the NPC companions.

I dunno who else agrees but that always bothered me very much.

This will change the storyline a bit. For example:

-Khalid is dead in BG2

-Dynaheir is dead in BG2

-There is a quest with Xzar and Montaron so if they are in your starting party, the quest should be changed.

-If you don't choose Minsc, the NPC that replaces him will not be able to free himself(no Berserrk ability).

-There is a quest with Viconia, too. It will be less romantic if the quest is changed so that if she is in your party she gets "arrested" when you enter in Government District. I mean, freeing her will not be that epic if you let the townsfolk get her in the first place(especially if your main character is male).

Also, the party you described above is one of my favourite BG1 parties.

Schneidend

Djimmy said:

-If you don't choose Minsc, the NPC that replaces him will not be able to free himself(no Berserrk ability).

Well, they only welded the bars shut in the first place BECAUSE he was a berserker.

shawne

Schneidend said:

Yeah, Bioware really dropped the ball for the start of BG2, both with the NPCs involved and the player's motivations. Irenicus' dungeon should have been balanced for just the PC and Imoen (even if she wasn't in your party, Irenicus still would have captured her because of her lineage), and Irenicus should have stolen your souls just before the Shadow Thieves attacked. Then boom, you get to have the cool Slayer transformation from day 1 and you have an undeniable reason to go to Spellhold and kill Irenicus.

Setting aside balancing issues (having the Slayer ability and its immunity to Imprisonment would let you take out Kangaxx much sooner), I always thought the motivation to pursue Irenicus was straightforward regardless of alignment: you know that if you let him go, he'll come after you again. And even if you never traveled with Dynaheir and Khalid, it's been made clear that he's willing to kill people associated with you to get his way.

Schneidend

But, as far as the PC knows, Spellhold is more than adequate to contain Irenicus.

shawne

Schneidend said:

But, as far as the PC knows, Spellhold is more than adequate to contain Irenicus.

I think the PC would be skeptical at best, based solely on his/her own experiences with supposedly-unbreakable prisons (Durlag's Tower, Ice Island, etc.)

Schneidend

Durlag's Tower isn't a prison...is it? Maybe my memory sucks.

Ice Island was pretty tough to get out of, since no amount of brute magical power would let you just walk out like Irenicus could with Spellhold.

Still, as far as the PC knows, there's no reason to go to Spellhold to kill Irenicus beyond petty revenge. The only motivation that makes sense is rescuing Imoen, which most Evil characters simply would not care about.

Space_hamster

Let's be honest here, most NPCs in bg1 were just cookie cutter characters with the thinnest of back stories or personalities. NPCs in bg1 didn't even have voice overs, or more than a single personal quest ( if they had any at all) . It was only with the refinement of the BG engine and More in depth plotting of the sequel where these generic NPCs gained resonance and depth. On the other hand, since it is a ROLEPLAY game, the player can invent any reason they wish for being stuck in the dungeon with the characters chosen by the designers. Of course, there is always the option of changing NPCs at any time . . BG is so flexible.

Excalibur_2102

Id love them to be able to being all NPCs over from BG1 to BG2, but in reality I dont think its possible. A good comprimise would be to have a short story that would explain how you got split from your old companions and how you ended up with Immy jaheira and minsc again.