I can understand your party not 1:1 importing on starting BG2, that would have more than doubled the toal NPC's available in BG2, requiring months work of extra scripting and flooding Amn with people wanting to hang out with you.
Possibly an alternative that *would* have worked was giving the PC a sample party based on alignment. If your PC is evil aligned, you would for example get Edwin and Viconia in the cells. They would be removed from their usual spots in the game (Edwin's role with the Shadow Thieves can easily be replaced with a generic mage, his placement there was odd to begin with). Jaheira would then be found near the Harper Hold, possibly encountered while doing Xzar's quest. Minsc could easily be placed in the Umar Hills, trying to figure out what happened to the previous ranger and kicking the butts of the evil shades there. Both could explain that after leaving your company, their significant other died tragicly and thus they are where they are now (Jaheira dedicating herself to her work, Minsc trying to right as many wrongs as possible).
A Neutral party could then possibly feature Jaheira and Xan (BG2 really needed Xan), or with the EE, Jaheira and Rasaad (if I correctly interpret him as neutral).
This requires (relatively) little changes to the game (you still need to only import a .chr file, no need to add a ton of NPC's to SoA) while providing greater continuity (considering Edwin and Viconia are the usual go-to characters for Evil players, like Minsc and Jaheira were to Good.
Ice Island was pretty tough to get out of, since no amount of brute magical power would let you just walk out like Irenicus could with Spellhold.
True, but it's still an example of a prison thought to be inescapable, which you ultimately break through. (This seems to be a general trope with D&D games - everyone's afraid of the Lady of Pain's mazes in "Planescape Torment", but that doesn't stop you from finding a way out anyway...)
Still, as far as the PC knows, there's no reason to go to Spellhold to kill Irenicus beyond petty revenge. The only motivation that makes sense is rescuing Imoen, which most Evil characters simply would not care about.
It's all in the RP. In my case, my Neutral Evil PC actually was fond of Imoen despite the different alignments - they grew up together in Candlekeep, they're friends, etc. But even if that wasn't the case, I think Evil characters rationalize hunting Irenicus the same way they rationalize going after the Iron Throne in BG1: you're not really concerned about their broader plans, and you might not even care that they killed your foster father, but you know they're trying to kill you. So it's in your own best interest to kill them first.
This requires (relatively) little changes to the game (you still need to only import a .chr file, no need to add a ton of NPC's to SoA) while providing greater continuity (considering Edwin and Viconia are the usual go-to characters for Evil players, like Minsc and Jaheira were to Good.
While i know its not possible due to contractual means, i DO agree with what your saying and offer a slight reiteration.
Instead of going through the trouble of "removing" or "replacing" Edwin and Viconia for the begining of the game, Leave them where they are. and instead spawn Shar-teel (I was thinking of kagain as well, but then bg2 doesnt need another evil dwarf fighter) and Faldorn (Being TN, but also a shadow druid i think owuld fit in a evil party, no?)
and i like Xan being part of the "neutral" party, but instead of Jaheira (who is canon for the "good" party) They could have brought back branwen.
@shawne! My dearest friend! Glad you finally joined the party (sorry for the pun)! =D
Yes, you're right of course. I always want to meet new people. In fact, I can't wait to try out Rasaad, Neera and Dorn in BG2EE. They're perfect to replace Khalid, Dynaheir and Imoen...
Instead of going through the trouble of "removing" or "replacing" Edwin and Viconia for the begining of the game, Leave them where they are. and instead spawn Shar-teel (I was thinking of kagain as well, but then bg2 doesnt need another evil dwarf fighter) and Faldorn (Being TN, but also a shadow druid i think owuld fit in a evil party, no?)
and i like Xan being part of the "neutral" party, but instead of Jaheira (who is canon for the "good" party) They could have brought back branwen.
I'm not sure that solves the problem of continuity, though - the complaint here seems to be that the party members available to you in Irenicus' dungeon may not have been the NPCs you actually used in BG1. If my PC were True Neutral but I never used Xan or Branwen, why would they show up in the cells?
The larger problem, IMO, is the implication that your BG1 party has to come together for the sake of continuity. As far as I know, that's never been a trope of D&D game series - you can have one or two NPCs coming back as familiar faces, but conventionally the hero reaches a new area and pulls together new parties to deal with specific threats/storylines...
@shawne! My dearest friend! Glad you finally joined the party (sorry for the pun)! =D
Yes, you're right of course. I always want to meet new people. In fact, I can't wait to try out Rasaad, Neera and Dorn in BG2EE. They're perfect to replace Khalid, Dynaheir and Imoen...
Indeed. And, of course, Trent Oster has already mentioned the likelihood of new characters for BG2:EE in addition to Neera, Dorn and Rasaad, so do we really need more BG1 characters too?
Indeed. And, of course, Trent Oster has already mentioned the likelihood of new characters for BG2:EE in addition to Neera, Dorn and Rasaad, so do we really need more BG1 characters too?
It's all in the RP. In my case, my Neutral Evil PC actually was fond of Imoen despite the different alignments - they grew up together in Candlekeep, they're friends, etc. But even if that wasn't the case, I think Evil characters rationalize hunting Irenicus the same way they rationalize going after the Iron Throne in BG1: you're not really concerned about their broader plans, and you might not even care that they killed your foster father, but you know they're trying to kill you. So it's in your own best interest to kill them first.
Yeah, it's certainly possible for Evil CHARNAMES to be fond of Imoen. That's how I ended up rationalizing it, but going after Irenicus is pointless. Again, as far as you know, Spellhold took care of it. There's no evidence to give your character a reason to not just shrug and forget about him.
Yeah, it's certainly possible for Evil CHARNAMES to be fond of Imoen. That's how I ended up rationalizing it, but going after Irenicus is pointless. Again, as far as you know, Spellhold took care of it. There's no evidence to give your character a reason to not just shrug and forget about him.
Why risk it, though? Maybe Spellhold can keep Irenicus permanently contained, but maybe it can't. The only way you'd ever feel safe, the only way you could ever know for sure, is if you take him out.
The Baldur's Gate Trilogy mod came up with a backstory of how you got separated from your party and dropped off in Chateau Irenicus. You go out on an assignment, get ambushed by shadow thieves (which removes your old party), etc. You also have continuity with any of the carry over characters. If you chose not to dual class Imoen, for example, she remains a straight thief when you start up BG2. It is like that for all of them if they were in your party (same XP, spells, skills, etc. as when you finished BG1 and TOTSC).
It is pretty good for continuity and a similar approach could be taken for BG EE without having to rewrite all the original script.
Why risk it, though? Maybe Spellhold can keep Irenicus permanently contained, but maybe it can't. The only way you'd ever feel safe, the only way you could ever know for sure, is if you take him out.
It's a fortress prison on a secluded island in the ocean. The bigger risk is assaulting it in the first place. He's in a prison designed to hold mages, and is a mage. If you assault the prison, you will likely free him, or just die ignominiously against the prison's own defenses. That's just a self-fulfilling prophecy waiting to happen. There's too many unknowns. Besides, if you're chilling in Athkatla and Irenicus breaks out and shows up, you'll have advanced warning because the Cowled Wizards will pick a fight with him again and level a city block.
The only way Spellhold could be safer is if it was built in a dead magic zone. For those who don't know Forgotten Realms, it's an area where magic just does not work at all.
I'd love for all the NPC's to move over as my favourites include Montaron & Xzar and it's a shame to end up with the NPC's you dumped in the first game
Comments
Possibly an alternative that *would* have worked was giving the PC a sample party based on alignment. If your PC is evil aligned, you would for example get Edwin and Viconia in the cells. They would be removed from their usual spots in the game (Edwin's role with the Shadow Thieves can easily be replaced with a generic mage, his placement there was odd to begin with).
Jaheira would then be found near the Harper Hold, possibly encountered while doing Xzar's quest. Minsc could easily be placed in the Umar Hills, trying to figure out what happened to the previous ranger and kicking the butts of the evil shades there. Both could explain that after leaving your company, their significant other died tragicly and thus they are where they are now (Jaheira dedicating herself to her work, Minsc trying to right as many wrongs as possible).
A Neutral party could then possibly feature Jaheira and Xan (BG2 really needed Xan), or with the EE, Jaheira and Rasaad (if I correctly interpret him as neutral).
This requires (relatively) little changes to the game (you still need to only import a .chr file, no need to add a ton of NPC's to SoA) while providing greater continuity (considering Edwin and Viconia are the usual go-to characters for Evil players, like Minsc and Jaheira were to Good.
Instead of going through the trouble of "removing" or "replacing" Edwin and Viconia for the begining of the game, Leave them where they are. and instead spawn Shar-teel (I was thinking of kagain as well, but then bg2 doesnt need another evil dwarf fighter) and Faldorn (Being TN, but also a shadow druid i think owuld fit in a evil party, no?)
and i like Xan being part of the "neutral" party, but instead of Jaheira (who is canon for the "good" party) They could have brought back branwen.
Yes, you're right of course. I always want to meet new people. In fact, I can't wait to try out Rasaad, Neera and Dorn in BG2EE. They're perfect to replace Khalid, Dynaheir and Imoen...
The larger problem, IMO, is the implication that your BG1 party has to come together for the sake of continuity. As far as I know, that's never been a trope of D&D game series - you can have one or two NPCs coming back as familiar faces, but conventionally the hero reaches a new area and pulls together new parties to deal with specific threats/storylines... Indeed.
It is pretty good for continuity and a similar approach could be taken for BG EE without having to rewrite all the original script.