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Politics. The feel in your country.

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  • joluvjoluv Member Posts: 2,137
    Maybe I misunderstood the proposed path. I read it as four years of military service (perhaps in a noncombatant role), plus staying out of trouble. Was that wrong?
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,037
    I think Trump was merely mirroring a suggestion he heard that "not standing and applauding" was somehow treasonous, but I could be mistaken--he may actually think that. Clearly, it isn't but he isn't going to listen to me....

    The gerrymandering case is going to go like this: they will redraw the lines, groups opposed to them will file lawsuits claiming that the new lines are also designed to dilute non-white votes (maybe they will be and maybe they won't be, sometimes the perception matters more than the reality), the committee will have to go back to the beginning, but by then the deadline will have passed and they will have to go with the existing lines for the 2018 election. End result: the lines being declared unconstitutional (or a violation of voting rights laws) will not change for this year. Note that I am not saying the shouldn't change, only that they won't.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited February 2018
    Ever since Freddie Grey's death in the back of a police van, a spotlight has been turned on the Baltimore PD. What has been revealed should be a national story getting much more play than it is. I don't know how you fix something like this article describes without tearing the entire thing out by the root and starting over:

    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/2/2/16961146/baltimore-gun-trace-task-force-trial

    https://www.baltimorebrew.com/2018/02/02/gun-days-at-the-bpd-money-for-nothing-and-overtime-for-free/
  • dreamtravelerdreamtraveler Member Posts: 377
    edited February 2018
    May i have your attention please
    New international financial scandal called Novartis
    Yesterday i heard someone saying that this is the biggest scandal since the constitution of the Greek state ex prime ministers ministers and such are involved
    Post edited by dreamtraveler on
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367

    May i have your attention please
    New international financial scandal called Novartis
    Yesterday i heard someone saying that this is the biggest scandal since the constitution of the Greek state ex prime ministers ministers and such are involved

    What, a corrupt pharmaceutical company? Unheard of... Not only do they want us to become a bunch of drug addicts, they want us to pay through the nose for it. Hopefully they crack down on these assholes!
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,037
    edited February 2018

    Ever since Freddie Grey's death in the back of a police van, a spotlight has been turned on the Baltimore PD. What has been revealed should be a national story getting much more play than it is. I don't know how you fix something like this article describes without tearing the entire thing out by the root and starting over:

    I suspect similar things are happening right now in most major city police departments. I really liked The Shield--one of FX's best shows--but it becomes doubly depressing to watch when you realize that those situations are real.

    Theft by badge isn't just a big city problem, either. There was some small town in Texas (I forget the name...somewhere north of Houston, south of Lufkin, west of highway 59--somewhere in that region) where the local police would stop *anyone* who was a) not white and b) had out-of-State plates. If they found any cash or valuables they would presume that the person was carrying money to or from a drug deal, confiscate it all, put them in jail, then release then and drop all the charges if they signed over the cash. At the end of the year, the DA and the local police all got a share of the take.

    *************

    Coincidence? Maybe. As the stock market indices tanked (I suspect this was a big round of profit-taking, not an indicator of serious problems bubbling to the surface), the online portals for Wealthfront Inc. and Betterment LLC, two of the nation's largest robo-advisors (sites or tools people can use to set up investment accounts, then set trading parameters without needing a human investment advisor), crashed. People couldn't log onto their accounts, couldn't check balances, and couldn't place sell orders. Even person-based companies like Schwab experienced online problems.
  • ildaronildaron Member Posts: 52
    @joluv To rephrase that question. A Drug dealer buys a nice home for his children, places tons of money in their bank accounts. The children never did anything wrong, however the cars, houses, and private education should continued to be paid. After all the children never committed any crimes themselves.

    Those who are brought into this country legally as children may over the course of their lifetime have permeant visas. They are not citizens, yet they grew up in the United States and their attitudes are no different than US citizens. They however do not have a right to live here as they are not citizens. Like DACA members they had no choice in entering the country (they were children at the time). If they commit a crime they can (and some do depending on how serious) get deported. This is due to despite being hear legally for the majority of their childhood and adulthood, they are not citizens.

    So yes I propose that children who were brought in this country illegally be treated in the same manner that children who were brought to this country legally.
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811

    Meanwhile, Trump spent today calling the people he is supposed to be negotiating with traitors for not clapping for him enough at the State of the Union.

    Reminds me of Stalin and how the first person to stop clapping during a standing ovation for him would be arrested.

    I guess being compared to Stalin is a step up from being compared to Hitler though... so he's making progress. Very tiny small step though.
  • joluvjoluv Member Posts: 2,137
    ildaron said:

    @joluv To rephrase that question. A Drug dealer buys a nice home for his children, places tons of money in their bank accounts. The children never did anything wrong, however the cars, houses, and private education should continued to be paid. After all the children never committed any crimes themselves.

    Cutting off someone's trust fund is not a good analogy for deportation, and a drug lord is not a good analogy for an undocumented immigrant.
    ildaron said:

    Those who are brought into this country legally as children may over the course of their lifetime have permeant visas. They are not citizens, yet they grew up in the United States and their attitudes are no different than US citizens. They however do not have a right to live here as they are not citizens. Like DACA members they had no choice in entering the country (they were children at the time). If they commit a crime they can (and some do depending on how serious) get deported. This is due to despite being hear legally for the majority of their childhood and adulthood, they are not citizens.

    So yes I propose that children who were brought in this country illegally be treated in the same manner that children who were brought to this country legally.

    If by "permeant visas" you mean lawful permanent resident status, i.e., green cards, and if your proposal is to give DACA recipients green cards, then I would be 100% on board for that.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    Trump, from his own mouth, has now explicitally called for a government shutdown if he doesn't get 100% of what he wants on immigration. But I'm sure on Friday there will be breathless debates about whose fault it is.....
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,037
    I told you it was just profit-taking--the Dow closed up over 550 points compared to yesterday's close. The brokers made a lot of money, I can assure you--they get commissions on every transaction.

    Well, Elon Musk is on his way to Mars in Falcon Heavy. It wasn't a mannequin--it was actually him. The rocket is carrying the equipment necessary to set up a small one-man base, from which he will declare his independence from Earth.

    I don't see how the Democrats are going to be able to bring any pressure to get anything they want out of the new round of budget/funding negotiations. There is no question about it--if the government shuts down Trump will blame Democrats for not rolling over and just taking it like a dog who has been abused so much it knows not to object.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited February 2018

    I told you it was just profit-taking--the Dow closed up over 550 points compared to yesterday's close. The brokers made a lot of money, I can assure you--they get commissions on every transaction.

    Well, Elon Musk is on his way to Mars in Falcon Heavy. It wasn't a mannequin--it was actually him. The rocket is carrying the equipment necessary to set up a small one-man base, from which he will declare his independence from Earth.

    I don't see how the Democrats are going to be able to bring any pressure to get anything they want out of the new round of budget/funding negotiations. There is no question about it--if the government shuts down Trump will blame Democrats for not rolling over and just taking it like a dog who has been abused so much it knows not to object.

    This.

    According to Trump, nothing bad is ever Trump's fault. Nothing good is not due to Trump. That is all there is.

    EDIT:
    And in Pennsylvania they were ordered by their state Supreme Court to redo their very partisan gerrymandered districts. They refused and petitioned the US Supreme Court. The Supreme Court passed on taking the case. Now they are talking about impeaching and removing the judges that ruled against them. I believe they have the numbers to do that thanks to their partisan gerrymandering.



    Also

    The U.S. has been demoted from a full democracy to a flawed democracy for the first time, according to the Economist Intelligence Unit (EIU).

    https://www.cnbc.com/2017/01/25/us-is-no-longer-a-full-democracy-eiu-warns.html
    Post edited by smeagolheart on
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,037
    edited February 2018
    They are aware that impeaching the judges--presuming that actually happens--won't retroactively reverse their decision, right?

    edit/add: Trump told the Pentagon he wanted a military parade "like they have in France" (he was there on Bastille Day and was impressed by the parade there, it seems). erm...okay...sure, whatever. Don't we essentially have those every July 4th? Are we going to be accused of treason if we don't attend?
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850

    They are aware that impeaching the judges--presuming that actually happens--won't retroactively reverse their decision, right?

    Though as I've said before (many times) that this started with the Republicans refusing to even hold a confirmation hearing for Merrick Garland, Trump has accelerated this process. Nothing is enforcing the rules we use to govern our society. Nothing was except the idea that it was simply beyond the pale to not adhere to those rules. Now, they are simply being tossed aside. It's not going to get any better. On the one hand, the right thing for the Democrats to do in response in play by the rules and HOPE the public notices. But that is looking more and more like a fool's errand. Because Republicans are learning that if you just OBLITERATE the rules themselves, no one is actually going to stop you.

    In the midst of all this, apparently this is a real thing:

    Why stop there?? Why not dig up Leni Riefenstahl to get the whole thing on film. For one thing, countries that are secure in their place in the world don't go waving their dick around in relative peace-time like this. For another, how many tens of millions of dollars would this shit cost?? And lastly, military parades don't lead anywhere good in a free society (or an ostensibly free society). Eventually, that parade ends up taking place at Nuremberg.
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,037

    Also

    The U.S. has been demoted from a full democracy to a flawed democracy for the first time, according to the Economist Intelligence Unit (EIU).

    This was only a matter of time. All empires wane and they all generally follow the same series of events. We are in the "weak, corrupt leaders" phase. Expect more lackluster leadership regardless of which party is in power, as well as political infighting inside parties and politicians trying to "out-Democrat" or "out-Republican" each other (statements like "my fellow Republican isn't consevative enough").
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850

    Also

    The U.S. has been demoted from a full democracy to a flawed democracy for the first time, according to the Economist Intelligence Unit (EIU).

    This was only a matter of time. All empires wane and they all generally follow the same series of events. We are in the "weak, corrupt leaders" phase. Expect more lackluster leadership regardless of which party is in power, as well as political infighting inside parties and politicians trying to "out-Democrat" or "out-Republican" each other (statements like "my fellow Republican isn't consevative enough").
    I still don't think third-parties are the remedy everyone thinks they are. I mean, we tried this in Minnesota when I was in high school. We actually elected Jesse Ventura Governor. Nothing miraculously changed for the better. Democrats were still Democrats and Republicans were still Republicans. He still hated the press and faced controversy like all politicians (he was actually a proto-Trump in the way he dealt with the media). In the end, it was nothing more than an interesting experiment. It wasn't a failure or a smashing success. After the novelty wore off, you couldn't tell the difference.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited February 2018
    Well something has got to give. Republicans seem intent on holding onto their gerrymandered advantages at all costs. They will disenfranchise voters if they can't win fair and square. They will gerrymander districts and attack any institution that at all questions their power.

    Who will stand up to them? Right now, the answer is nobody. We can be sure Trump loves this - he encourages this type of stuff and his rhetoric eggs them on. He's got their back. The only thing holding the US together are a couple judges and Trump and Republicans are attacking them and packing courts. How long will the judiciary be able to hold out?
    Post edited by smeagolheart on
  • QuickbladeQuickblade Member Posts: 957
    edited February 2018

    EDIT:
    And in Pennsylvania they were ordered by their state Supreme Court to redo their very partisan gerrymandered districts. They refused and petitioned the US Supreme Court. The Supreme Court passed on taking the case. Now they are talking about impeaching and removing the judges that ruled against them. I believe they have the numbers to do that thanks to their partisan gerrymandering.

    The Section of the Pennsylvania constitution referred to in the Memo in the link:
    Every bill which shall have passed both Houses shall be
    presented to the Governor; if he approves he shall sign it, but
    if he shall not approve he shall return it with his objections
    to the House in which it shall have originated, which House
    shall enter the objections at large upon their journal, and
    proceed to re-consider it. If after such re-consideration, two-
    thirds of all the members elected to that House shall agree to
    pass the bill, it shall be sent with the objections to the other
    House by which likewise it shall be re-considered, and if
    approved by two-thirds of all the members elected to that House
    it shall be a law; but in such cases the votes of both Houses
    shall be determined by yeas and nays, and the names of the
    members voting for and against the bill shall be entered on the
    journals of each House, respectively. If any bill shall not be
    returned by the Governor within ten days after it shall have
    been presented to him, the same shall be a law in like manner as
    if he had signed it, unless the General Assembly, by their
    adjournment, prevent its return, in which case it shall be a
    law, unless he shall file the same, with his objections, in the
    office of the Secretary of the Commonwealth, and give notice
    thereof by public proclamation within 30 days after such
    adjournment.


    This will not end well for the state GOP if the above quote is the grounds they want to use to impeach an ENTIRE state Supreme Court. The argument they seem to want to present is "We make the laws, we are the highest authority".

    Shame about the FACT that there's better than 200 years of legal precedent that Congress is not the be-all-end-all of law.

    The Constitutions (U.S.+States) provides the broadest, most general guidance for the various Congresses.
    Acts of Congress make the laws.
    But it's up to the executive branches and various (and lot) of agencies to carry out those laws.
    And the courts to decide constitutionality of those laws.

    I'd be EAGER to see that go to court to get that "ruling by the bench" dissatisfaction that has been simmering in the GOP out in the open and have it crushed flat.

    Edit-A comment in that twitter that I like in discussion about who has the authority to carry out the court's will.

    I edited "Court" from "Cory", presuming it to be a typo.

    "If your broader question is what happens when civil authorities decide they will no longer respect Court rulings then the answer is ‘we’re fucked’. But I don’t think that’s happened here."

    Post edited by Quickblade on
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963



    "If your broader question is what happens when civil authorities decide they will no longer respect Court rulings then the answer is ‘we’re fucked’. But I don’t think that’s happened here."

    That is exactly what they are trying here. Will they get away with it? They should be the ones going to jail. I'm pretty sure no one else can ignore court orders for fun and profit.
  • joluvjoluv Member Posts: 2,137
    edited February 2018
    joluv said:

    I thought about posting that the other day. It's horrifying, and it reinforced my sense that people are deeply ignorant about the immigration law status quo.

    On the other hand, these people were presumably random schmoes pulled off of the street outside of Jimmy Kimmel's studio, which is on Hollywood Boulevard. So I'm not going to assume they're particularly representative of any larger group.

    Turns out I was wrong about this. In the clip below, Kimmel says, "I will say, one thing that should give us a little faith in humanity is, we tried to find people just out on the street -- pedestrians -- and were unable to find anyone who opposed DACA," so they had to find those people online. He also says that he almost got in a fight with one of the panelists. He starts talking about the segment around 3:58.

  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,164



    Well, Elon Musk is on his way to Mars in Falcon Heavy. It wasn't a mannequin--it was actually him. The rocket is carrying the equipment necessary to set up a small one-man base, from which he will declare his independence from Earth.

    Reality has become a prequel to The Expanse
  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,164
    edited February 2018



    This will not end well for the state GOP if the above quote is the grounds they want to use to impeach an ENTIRE state Supreme Court. The argument they seem to want to present is "We make the laws, we are the highest authority".

    Shame about the FACT that there's better than 200 years of legal precedent that Congress is not the be-all-end-all of law.

    The Constitutions (U.S.+States) provides the broadest, most general guidance for the various Congresses.
    Acts of Congress make the laws.
    But it's up to the executive branches and various (and lot) of agencies to carry out those laws.
    And the courts to decide constitutionality of those laws.

    I'd be EAGER to see that go to court to get that "ruling by the bench" dissatisfaction that has been simmering in the GOP out in the open and have it crushed flat.

    Edit-A comment in that twitter that I like in discussion about who has the authority to carry out the court's will.

    I edited "Court" from "Cory", presuming it to be a typo.

    "If your broader question is what happens when civil authorities decide they will no longer respect Court rulings then the answer is ‘we’re fucked’. But I don’t think that’s happened here."

    To be clear, this is a state law case, so the reference to congress and the federal separation of powers isn't relevant. If anything, Pennsylvania's state constitution would be dis positive on how to resolve a conflict between the Penn Supreme Court and Penn's legislative body.


    Also, before anyone panics about members of other branches criticizing the courts... let's all remember that President Roosevelt constantly called justices on the Supreme Court senile and ordered his allies in the New York press to refer to four Supreme Court justices with whom he disagreed as "The Four Horseman" (as in, of the Apocalypse)

    Conflict between other branches and the judiciary is not new. Sometimes it can even be healthy. It usually involves big talk by one member, but let's not take threats to impeach five justice seriously (it will never happen).
  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,164
    edited February 2018

    Also

    The U.S. has been demoted from a full democracy to a flawed democracy for the first time, according to the Economist Intelligence Unit (EIU).

    This was only a matter of time. All empires wane and they all generally follow the same series of events. We are in the "weak, corrupt leaders" phase. Expect more lackluster leadership regardless of which party is in power, as well as political infighting inside parties and politicians trying to "out-Democrat" or "out-Republican" each other (statements like "my fellow Republican isn't consevative enough").
    I still don't think third-parties are the remedy everyone thinks they are. I mean, we tried this in Minnesota when I was in high school. We actually elected Jesse Ventura Governor. Nothing miraculously changed for the better. Democrats were still Democrats and Republicans were still Republicans. He still hated the press and faced controversy like all politicians (he was actually a proto-Trump in the way he dealt with the media). In the end, it was nothing more than an interesting experiment. It wasn't a failure or a smashing success. After the novelty wore off, you couldn't tell the difference.
    I agree that third parties have a long history of failure in the US. Even with two historically bad and unpopular candidates in the last election, the Libertarian candidate only won 3 percent of the vote.

    People have encouraged me support a third party, and I flirted with the idea briefly years ago, but learned quickly that I'm much better off supporting the classical liberal wing of the GOP (though this is getting harder nowadays... RIP Jeff Flake :neutral: )

    Supporting a faction within one of the major parties seems to be the best way to effectuate change.
    Post edited by booinyoureyes on
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited February 2018
    In the seemingly ever-ending parade of leaks from the text-messaging FBI lovers, today, FOX News reported (and other outlets shamelessly parroted) a message that supposedly said "Obama wants to know about everything we are doing". FOX reported it was in relation to Hillary's email investigation. Only one problem with that narrative. The Hillary email investigation initially closed on July 5th. It wasn't reopened until late October. The text in question is dated September 2nd. There is no timeline that allows this report's narrative to line up. What is far more likely is that Obama wanted updates on the very real attempt by Russia to influence the election. This report is hogwash.

    In fact, it's fairly common knowledge at this point that Obama DID want to warn the public about the Russian attacks. But Biden warned him that doing so would make it seem like HE was the one trying to tip the scales. So they went to McConnell, and asked him to join in a bipartisan statement. McConnell refused.

    Edit: now the Wall Street Journal has concluded the story is bunk. Not surprisingly, it was pushed into the media by Ron "Secret Society" Johnson:

    Post edited by jjstraka34 on
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903


    Also, before anyone panics about members of other branches criticizing the courts... let's all remember that President Roosevelt constantly called justices on the Supreme Court senile and ordered his allies in the New York press to refer to four Supreme Court justices with whom he disagreed as "The Four Horseman" (as in, of the Apocalypse)

    Comparing the GOP to FDR in terms of government overreach or respect for democratic norms is not a compliment. I admired FDR for other reasons, but he was an extremely devious politician who would gladly resort to bold-faced lies (he promised during a campaign that he would stay out of World War 2) and shameless power grabs (his "court packing" scheme) to advance his own agenda.

    If the GOP is making quasi-legal power grabs that are even half as shameless as FDR's, that represents a very serious threat to American democracy.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited February 2018
    Nancy Pelosi has now entered her 7th hour speaking on the House floor in support of the Dreamers. Say what you want about her, but it's hard to say she doesn't care about the issue. She could have had anyone in the caucus do this for her, and she's doing it herself.

    On the flip-side, John Kelly and Orrin Hatch have spent their day defending top White House aide Rob Porter, who has now had TWO ex-wives come forward and accuse him of domestic assault. The White House has known about this the entire time, as the protective orders filed against him prevented him from receiving a full security clearance.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963

    Nancy Pelosi has now entered her 7th hour speaking on the House floor in support of the Dreamers. Say what you want about her, but it's hard to say she doesn't care about the issue. She could have had anyone in the caucus do this for her, and she's doing it herself.

    On the flip-side, John Kelly and Orrin Hatch have spent their day defending top White House aide Rob Porter, who has now had TWO ex-wives come forward and accuse him of domestic assault. The White House has known about this the entire time, as the protective orders filed against him prevented him from receiving a full security clearance.

    John Kelly and Orrin Hatch have spent their day defending this

  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited February 2018
    Been waiting for this news to come down the pike for some time now, and this honestly feels like it should be getting more attention:

    It also appears that the White House has known about the domestic abuse allegations against Porter (again, Kelly's right-hand man) since NOVEMBER. The FBI informed them. But I suppose this is just another plot to take down Trump:
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited February 2018
    Apparently this happened.

    Beware once you see it, you can't unsee it.

    So he's had obvious scalp reduction surgery and has a massive nasty combover. I'm follically challenged myself. I shave my damn head instead of trying to pretend I still have hair.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHwOMWGAg_o
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