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  • CamDawgCamDawg Member, Developer Posts: 3,438

    FBI is raiding Michael Cohen, Trumps lawyer, office.

    Man, David Dennison is so f***ed.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited April 2018
    CamDawg said:

    FBI is raiding Michael Cohen, Trumps lawyer, office.

    Man, David Dennison is so f***ed.
    That's what caused this whole mess to begin with, David Dennison's f***ing
  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,164

    More than worth mentioning at this point that Michael Cohen is the Deputy National Finance Chair of the RNC, though they have now scrubbed him from their website.

    Shows you how much Trump has infiltrated the RNC. They got in bed with the wrong reality TV star.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited April 2018

    More than worth mentioning at this point that Michael Cohen is the Deputy National Finance Chair of the RNC, though they have now scrubbed him from their website.

    Shows you how much Trump has infiltrated the RNC. They got in bed with the wrong reality TV star.
    He basically walked in and co-opted the entire party into a cult of personality (well, enough of it for sure), but I maintain the groundwork was laid for 30 years for this to come to fruition. There is simply no way Trump exists without the pervasive influence of FOX News and talk radio.
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,037

    It is also important to remember that Attorney/Client privilege, as far as I know, only applies to discussions about actual legal strategy or advice. It does not provide blanket cover for participating in criminal acts, like say, breaking campaign finance laws.

    I think attorney/client privilege fails to apply if you confide in your attorney that you are intending to commit a crime or if you admit that you have already done so; see this for a quick review of it.

    Right now, it seems like the raid was more Cohen-oriented than Trump-oriented and has to do with the Ms. Clifford affair. Truthfully, I don't care how much I like you or how much of a devoted friend I am, I am *not* taking out a home equity line of credit to funnel a payoff to your mistress.

    *************

    In other news, this represents a slippery slope we do not need.
    SB 1424, as amended, Pan. Commercial law. Internet: social media: false information: strategic plan.
    Existing law prohibits a person, among others, from making or disseminating in any advertising device, or in any manner or means whatever, including over the Internet, any statement concerning real or personal property or services that is untrue or misleading, as specified.
    This bill would require any person who operates a social media, as defined, Internet Web site with a physical presence in California to develop a strategic plan to verify news stories shared on its Web site. The bill would require the plan to include, among other things, a plan to mitigate the spread of false information through news stories, the utilization of fact-checkers to verify news stories, providing outreach to social media users, and placing a warning on a news story containing false information.

    SECTION 1. Title 14.5 (commencing with Section 3085) is added to Part 4 of Division 3 of the Civil Code, to read:
    TITLE 14.5. False Information Strategic Plans
    3085. (a) Any person who operates a social media Internet Web site with physical presence in California shall develop a strategic plan to verify news stories shared on its Internet Web site.
    (b) The strategic plan shall include, but is not limited to, all of the following:
    (1) A plan to mitigate the spread of false information through news stories.
    (2) The utilization of fact-checkers to verify news stories.
    (3) Providing outreach to social media users regarding news stories containing false information.
    (4) Placing a warning on a news story containing false information.
    (c) As used in this section, “social media” means an electronic service or account, or electronic content, including, but not limited to, videos, still photographs, blogs, video blogs, podcasts, instant and text messages, email, online services or accounts, or Internet Web site profiles or locations.
    Who gets to determine which fact-checkers are used? Wouldn't that make the fact-checkers the guardians of what information is deemed to be "factual"? How is that any different than the ISN?
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963

    More than worth mentioning at this point that Michael Cohen is the Deputy National Finance Chair of the RNC, though they have now scrubbed him from their website.

    Shows you how much Trump has infiltrated the RNC. They got in bed with the wrong reality TV star.
    He basically walked in and co-opted the entire party into a cult of personality (well, enough of it for sure), but I maintain the groundwork was laid for 30 years for this to come to fruition. There is simply no way Trump exists without the pervasive influence of FOX News and talk radio.
    Don't know about your second point but yeah at first there were a couple so called never-trumpers but they came around once he won the electoral college. Now they are all all-Trumpers. No matter what ridiculous thing he says or does the party falls in line covering for him. Even stuff that they would never let a democrat get away with us suddenly just fine if Trump does it.
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367

    More than worth mentioning at this point that Michael Cohen is the Deputy National Finance Chair of the RNC, though they have now scrubbed him from their website.

    Shows you how much Trump has infiltrated the RNC. They got in bed with the wrong reality TV star.
    He basically walked in and co-opted the entire party into a cult of personality (well, enough of it for sure), but I maintain the groundwork was laid for 30 years for this to come to fruition. There is simply no way Trump exists without the pervasive influence of FOX News and talk radio.
    Don't know about your second point but yeah at first there were a couple so called never-trumpers but they came around once he won the electoral college. Now they are all all-Trumpers. No matter what ridiculous thing he says or does the party falls in line covering for him. Even stuff that they would never let a democrat get away with us suddenly just fine if Trump does it.
    I have a feeling that if Trump is found to have actually broken any laws, the Republicans will drop him like a hot potato. So far, he's been pushing the envelope but no laws have been broken. A lot of etiquette has been violated but no actual laws broken (none that have been 'proven' to be broken anyway).
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,037
    I am still curious how a hush-money payoff to Ms. Clifford counts as an illegal campaign contribution when the money did not go to the campaign. Is it because money was used to benefit the candidate?
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367

    I am still curious how a hush-money payoff to Ms. Clifford counts as an illegal campaign contribution when the money did not go to the campaign. Is it because money was used to benefit the candidate?

    The general theory is that Trump is too cheap and egoistic to use his personal money for the payoff so campaign funds were used by Cohen to hush up Stormy Daniels. If Trump really is that stupid then he deserves to be impeached imho.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963

    I am still curious how a hush-money payoff to Ms. Clifford counts as an illegal campaign contribution when the money did not go to the campaign. Is it because money was used to benefit the candidate?

    I believe that's it. The payout was made to benefit the candidate. The maximum personal amount is like $2k, not $150k. Not sure how on the other hand corporations and PACs can funnel unlimited cash at candidates though.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited April 2018
    Fox Business Network host Lou Dobbs, an unabashed supporter of President Donald Trump, launched a fiery, verbal attack against special counsel Robert Mueller on Monday. Saying Trump should 'fire the SOB.'

    The president has patched in Dobbs via speakerphone to multiple cabinet meetings in the Oval Office so that he could offer his two cents. Reportedly he has told his cabinet people put in place to do the job to be quiet so that they could get the wisdom of Lou Dobbs.

    https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a19664404/trump-lou-dobbs-policy-meetings/

    So I'm thinking Mueller, Rosenstein, and Sessions won't last the week. Probably one or all of them fired by (or probably on) Friday.
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,037

    The president has patched in Dobbs via speakerphone to multiple cabinet meetings in the Oval Office so that he could offer his two cents. Reportedly he has told his cabinet people put in place to do the job to be quiet so that they could get the wisdom of Lou Dobbs.

    Let us presume, for the sake of discussion, that this is accurate--Trump has conferenced in Dobbs to Cabinet meetings. On the one hand I suppose getting an outside perspective can be a good thing; on the other hand, does Dobbs have the security clearance to listen in to such a meeting?

    If Trump is going to fire Mueller, can he at least wait until Friday? That would be the 13th and thus make it more appropriate.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963

    The president has patched in Dobbs via speakerphone to multiple cabinet meetings in the Oval Office so that he could offer his two cents. Reportedly he has told his cabinet people put in place to do the job to be quiet so that they could get the wisdom of Lou Dobbs.

    Let us presume, for the sake of discussion, that this is accurate--Trump has conferenced in Dobbs to Cabinet meetings. On the one hand I suppose getting an outside perspective can be a good thing; on the other hand, does Dobbs have the security clearance to listen in to such a meeting?

    If Trump is going to fire Mueller, can he at least wait until Friday? That would be the 13th and thus make it more appropriate.
    He tends to fire everyone else on Friday....
  • CamDawgCamDawg Member, Developer Posts: 3,438

    I am still curious how a hush-money payoff to Ms. Clifford counts as an illegal campaign contribution when the money did not go to the campaign. Is it because money was used to benefit the candidate?

    It's one of two things. If the campaign paid the hush money, it's an illegal use of campaign funds. Given that filings preceding the Clifford settlement show about $130k being paid to the LLC, this is something worth investigating.

    If Cohen actually paid out of pocket as he claims, it could still be illegal. It's fine to donate, say, use of a private jet or office space to a campaign, but these "in-kind" contributions must be disclosed in FEC filings, but it's a much tougher case. The John Edwards case was essentially this; he took large sums of money from two donors and used it to hide his affair. Of the six felony indictments he was found not guilty on one with mistrials for the rest. He was not re-tried.

    The Edwards case also shows how easy this is to beat. The in-kind contributions must be shown to be exclusively for the campaign. Edwards argued that the money was to hide it from his wife, not to protect the campaign. Cohen could beat it simply by showing that payouts to mistresses are SOP.
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,037
    CamDawg said:

    The Edwards case also shows how easy this is to beat. The in-kind contributions must be shown to be exclusively for the campaign. Edwards argued that the money was to hide it from his wife, not to protect the campaign. Cohen could beat it simply by showing that payouts to mistresses are SOP.

    Especially for high-net-worth clients. I suspect a decent amount of billable hours at high-dollar firms goes towards keeping affairs quiet.
  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,164


    Who gets to determine which fact-checkers are used? Wouldn't that make the fact-checkers the guardians of what information is deemed to be "factual"? How is that any different than the ISN?

    I imagine that is what the jury is for, as the finder of fact.
  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,164
    Balrog99 said:

    I am still curious how a hush-money payoff to Ms. Clifford counts as an illegal campaign contribution when the money did not go to the campaign. Is it because money was used to benefit the candidate?

    The general theory is that Trump is too cheap and egoistic to use his personal money for the payoff so campaign funds were used by Cohen to hush up Stormy Daniels. If Trump really is that stupid then he deserves to be impeached imho.
    I don't think that's it. I'd guess that they wanted the money not to be easily traced back to Trump.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited April 2018
    I think it's not a coincidence that the raid happened after Trump finally publicly said a couple days ago that he had no idea about the payment therefore leaving Cohen out all by himself.
    Post edited by smeagolheart on
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,037
    I have mentioned that situation before. The failure of their current leader, Aung San Suu Kyi, to stop the situation has led to her losing various awards and honors she received over the years as a result of her earlier struggles against corruption as her status as a political prisoner. She once stated that she wasn't certain that the Rohingya could be classified as Burmese citizens. She and the other leaders in that country would like for the rest of us to shut up and ignore the situation completely. To date, she still retains her Nobel Peace Prize; the Nobel Committee has no protocols for revoking a prize once one has been given.
  • ZaghoulZaghoul Member, Moderator Posts: 3,938

    I have mentioned that situation before. The failure of their current leader, Aung San Suu Kyi, to stop the situation has led to her losing various awards and honors she received over the years as a result of her earlier struggles against corruption as her status as a political prisoner. She once stated that she wasn't certain that the Rohingya could be classified as Burmese citizens. She and the other leaders in that country would like for the rest of us to shut up and ignore the situation completely. To date, she still retains her Nobel Peace Prize; the Nobel Committee has no protocols for revoking a prize once one has been given.

    That has bugged me since it started, her with the NPP and not coming out strongly against this ethnic cleansing. I think I would be fine if they jerked that away and finely awarded one posthumously to Mahatma Gandhi.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited April 2018
    Trump, for at least the second time that we know of, was on the verge of firing Mueller in December, insisting to aides that the investigation "had to be shut down". Why is that Mr. President??

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/10/us/politics/trump-sought-to-fire-mueller-in-december.html
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,037
    He was/is probably because the Mueller Investigation is starting to go far beyond things relating to possible connections to Russia. The situation with Ms. Clifford is a completely separate issue and amounts to nothing more than a good, old-fashioned affair with complications.
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367

    He was/is probably because the Mueller Investigation is starting to go far beyond things relating to possible connections to Russia. The situation with Ms. Clifford is a completely separate issue and amounts to nothing more than a good, old-fashioned affair with complications.

    I guess Christ is telling Mueller to throw his nets on the other side of the boat. Sorry, couldn't help pointing out the religious irony of this fishing expedition...
  • CamDawgCamDawg Member, Developer Posts: 3,438
    Then I'm sure your concern will be alleviated upon learning the warrant was obtained and executed by SDNY and not the special counsel.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited April 2018
    Wasn't the special counsel hired after Trump fired Comey and declared that he did so to Lester Holt because of great pressure from surface investigations going on to Russia/Trump.
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367
    CamDawg said:

    Then I'm sure your concern will be alleviated upon learning the warrant was obtained and executed by SDNY and not the special counsel.

    No, not really considering the political leanings of N.Y. If it was Texas or even Pennsylvania or Michigan I'd me more inclined to think this isn't a political witch-hunt...
  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,164
    edited April 2018
    CamDawg said:

    Then I'm sure your concern will be alleviated upon learning the warrant was obtained and executed by SDNY and not the special counsel.

    The warrant was issued based on evidence provided by the Mueller team, but I don't see why that is such a big concern. If there was sufficient evidence of wrongdoing, there is no reason it should not be investigated.


    So people know, if Mueller comes across information outside the scope of the investigation, he brings it to Rod Rosenstein (Deputy AG, and acting AG in this investigation since Sessions recused himself). Deputy Attorney General Rosenstein then has the final say on what to do with it.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    The next time Trump says "witch hunt" some reporter should ask him to explain the origins of the phrase and watch his brain melt.....
This discussion has been closed.