Still waiting for an official Oozemaster kit. Or a Jellymancer kit. Or a Slimedancer kit. Or a Gelatious Disciple kit. Maybe even a Mud Wrestler kit for the somewhat dirty fighters amongst us.
Edit @kamiroshi, I'm pretty sure there is an oozemaster mod kit out there, I forget where though.
I'm aware that there's an Oozemaster kit out there, yes. I devoted many years of playing soley Oozemasters. Thing is, the Divine Remix mod is sadly not compatible with the EE games at all.
Of course I'd also settle for the Amorphite of Ghaunadaur specialty priest kit, but afaik @Mordeus hasn't worked on his Faiths of Faerun mod for a year or so.
I never made it past the second act of NWN2, because of the kits.
There was just too much bloody choice. I replayed the first act so often, created so many different characters I eventually just burnt out on the game. Having to deal with Neera's whining and clinginess didn't help.
@demented YES YES YES YES! Oh my god. After my first play through, which I got through because I HAD to know the story, I NEVER finished it again. There we so many kits. Then I got a mod that added another 20 or so and it got even worse. I'am SO sick of West Harbour. :P hahaha
@demented YES YES YES YES! Oh my god. After my first play through, which I got through because I HAD to know the story, I NEVER finished it again. There we so many kits. Then I got a mod that added another 20 or so and it got even worse. I'am SO sick of West Harbour. :P hahaha
The mods, dear God, the mods. There was so many of them, page after page, each with a four or five star rating. My mind was just "Nope, not going through all of these".
I managed to restrict myself to one that added more animal companions and familiars, a spell pack and a kit pack. That was REALLY really hard. I still have it installed I just can't bring myself to play it again because I know EXACTLY what will happen...
This conversation is cracking me up. I mostly lurk / occasionally post. But the nwn2 conversation is hilarious, CaloNord.
I LOVE kits and classes -- it is what drew me to these games (starting with BG) years ago. Forget stressing over NWN2 builds: I spent hours and hours stressing over how to build a team for IWD2. I mean I couldn't sleep for weeks and work... please. I mapped out every possible combination of skills and talents for 4 to 6 characters. Until i realized -- hey this just isnt fun. Give me a fighter and a mage and a rogue and a cleric (and a bard because I love bards) and let's go. Same exact thing for NWN2. I mean finally I just did a pure bard (maybe one level of fighter) and that was the best,. But holy crap the days and days of studying kits...I tried this crazy ranged stormlord build with shurikens on nwnw2 that was fun for while but crikey I spent more time planning than playing.
At least with NWN2 I had one character to obsesses about. IWD2 I had a whole party!
I think NWN2 has a lot of great stuff but the mechanics and the fact that you are stuck with certain PCs for a time does limit re-playability. CaloNord your crack about West Harbor is the best. It as lame, but I actually do enjoy getting that Harvest Cup. I probably won that thing 20 times. I for one got sick of that damned keep -- the first time I got there it was a blast, but eventually, it stopped my replays dead in their tracks in chapter 2 or 3 I think. Who needs to find resources to mine -- i am bard who wants to sing!
Anyway, I too want more kits for BGEE but I say that not having yet tried (after dozens of play throughs starting with the originals in the 19990s) jester, Cavalier, beastmaster, avenger, bounty hunter, bezerker... and none of the new kits (shadowdancer seems fun and RDD seems under done but still fun -- why not additional breath weapon uses?). I love moddded kits but it is not like I have played all the orginal ones yet (nor the EE ones). i do hear folks on the lack of cleric options though.
Post patch I plan to do a Wizard slayer / thief illegal multi or an Avenger. I can't tell you how much I am already wrestling with which one of those to choose and how to play them. Avenger as spider-man or mage/druid spell meister? Can I really be a wizard slayer / thief when I can't use potions of master thievery until UAI? Should i be a dart chucking spell killing wunderkind or a poison dagger backstabber... ah the joy / the pain...
Ha! Psionicists I would pay for. I still remember my older brother introducing me to dark sun 20 yrs ago. What with thri-kreen and all...that was a short-lived dream...badass setting but I guess short lived. As well as ravenloft wtf? Anyone remember the old SSI games?
Hell ya, Dark Sun was my favorite setting as a kid. Gotta love the post apocalyptic D&D world. It made items super valuable, too. If you got a hold of a metal weapon, you were super badass. I always liked playing a Mul, since you could just haul a barrel of water around everywhere with you.
I got Shattered Lands to run in DosBox, but it crashed whenever I saved.
I stand by Psionics being awesome damn it. I want to make an innate ability to go with Southpaw that is a usable mindflayer psionic attack later tonight, just keeping it balanced. I find the whole concept of mental magic to be really awesomely cool and unique. Even if it was implemented as a mage with a spell book of unique spells rather then by the points system. That would be cool.
I stand by Psionics being awesome damn it. I want to make an innate ability to go with Southpaw that is a usable mindflayer psionic attack later tonight, just keeping it balanced. I find the whole concept of mental magic to be really awesomely cool and unique. Even if it was implemented as a mage with a spell book of unique spells rather then by the points system. That would be cool.
Start with spin545.spl, the psionic life drain spell, then just edit the effects to be what you want. After that, you can rename the spell, give it a new listing in spell.ids, then implement it via script with a global timer allowing you to use the ability once per round, or once per turn, or some other time frame. Of course, if you add the "add spell" effect to it then you can auto-recharge the spell; for example, casting "myspell.spl" has the effect "add spell" which puts "myspell.spl" as an innate ability. EEKeeper can add the ability to the innate section. There are some other psionic abilities already in the game, as well: spin542 through spin547. There may be others I have overlooked. The effects could be the usual psi abilities--control/domination/charm, psionic invisibility, telekinesis (either push or pull, using the 'wing buffet' effect, or holding them still by setting movement rate to 0), teleportation (you run the risk of breaking the game here and there, though), pyro-/cryo-/electrokinesis (apply the appropriate damage to the target), etc. If you applied blur, translucent, and passwall effects you could even approximate astral projection, especially if you really implement this via the simulacrum effects. Oh, I forgot--clairvoyance.
Didn't someone already make a psionic abilities mod?
Dude this is a 2E game. Why do all you people (yes devs, you too) feel the need to shoehorn silly 3E prestige classes into BG2's kit system? There is a metric ton of 2E source material with great kits that could be implemented.
Wait - make that *have been implemented.* In my install I have: - Thieves: burglar, adventurer, sharpshooter, shadowdancer (real one) - Bards: dirgesinger, chorister, Harper scout, elven bladesinger - Rangers: justifier, forest runner, feralan - Clerics: priests of Tyr, the Red Knight, Sune, Selune, and like 8 others - Fighters: (eh who cares about fighters) - Paladins: (Paladins are already like a kit, no need for more - but it would be good to model them after specialty priest kits, instead of stupid things like 'undead hunter' and 'dispel magic spammer inquisitor') - Wizards: (eh who needs kits when you have MAGIC)
Point is, there are tons of great mod kits out there, and no reason not to use them. Many are truer to the source material and better balanced than the 'official' ones added to EE. Go out and have fun!
Edit @kamiroshi, I'm pretty sure there is an oozemaster mod kit out there, I forget where though.
It's just that BG could use some of the versatility other editions have to offer. Prestige classes are just a part of the bigger picture. You have situations where your own 2E character concepts can be rather limiting in regards to the alignment/class/race restrictions. PPl should be able to play a elven druid(lol) or evil ranger without modding game. More freedom and choice = longer life of game.
Seems to me that there are already a metric ton of kits, some for flavor, and some for fun. And they feel like a hardcore rpg should. There are limitations, upsides, downsides, and no balance whatsoever, which is how it should be. I'm tempted to make a wizard slayer simply because every magic item you get early on excludes them for obvious reasons. It gives the game depth and endless replay value if you are into the meta-game. The fact that the game and it's items aren't randomly generated actually works in it's favor in this way, 50% of the fun is planning out your character and party.
But yeah, anyway....I don't know how many runs of both games you would have to do to get to the point where you need more kits. I imagine I'll be collecting social security by that time.
One thing I never understood - why can't you combine a specialist mage in a multiclass or dual into a specialist mage? A specialist IS NOT a kit. The Wild Mage is the ONLY Mage kit. As far as I know, we SHOULD be able to multi/dual specialists.
One thing I never understood - why can't you combine a specialist mage in a multiclass or dual into a specialist mage? A specialist IS NOT a kit. The Wild Mage is the ONLY Mage kit. As far as I know, we SHOULD be able to multi/dual specialists.
This particular feature (along with alot of the others) is often more about having a cool sounding class name than any tangible in-game benefit. Again, you can make anything fun and interesting if you crunch numbers and gear enough, but I imagine that alot of people (and I'm one of them) just enjoy walking around with cool titles like Transmuter and Swashbuckler.
One thing I never understood - why can't you combine a specialist mage in a multiclass or dual into a specialist mage? A specialist IS NOT a kit. The Wild Mage is the ONLY Mage kit. As far as I know, we SHOULD be able to multi/dual specialists.
This particular feature (along with alot of the others) is often more about having a cool sounding class name than any tangible in-game benefit. Again, you can make anything fun and interesting if you crunch numbers and gear enough, but I imagine that alot of people (and I'm one of them) just enjoy walking around with cool titles like Transmuter and Swashbuckler.
So being able to cast one extra spell per day/level is not tangible? Or in the case of the Swashbuckler, being able to have +5 AC, +5 hit/dmg by endgame, along with weapon specialization and three pips in dual-wielding - are you SERIOUSLY saying this is not "tangible"?
Well, if it's not tangible, then what's the problem with letting us combine? And if it IS tangible, then certainly you can understand why I would want this.
It's very tangible, I was just saying that alot of the reasons all those kits are there is for flavor. There absolutely ARE benefits and detriments to whatever you pick, and some of the limitations do seem a little much at times (I cannot fathom why Halflings can't be Bards for example) but again, that's Baldur's Gate. It's old school and doesn't make any apologies for being so.
And I can also see why you wouldn't consider them a kit, though I would, since I guess I view a kit as gaining something, losing something else, and adding a nice fancy name to the class. I was recently playing my first run of Icewind Dale and thought it would be just swell to be a Conjurer when in fact it locked me out of damn near every useful spell you can use in the first two chapters, but hey, that's the fun of it :P
"This particular feature (along with alot of the others) is often more about having a cool sounding class name than any tangible in-game benefit."
Maybe I read a little more into your comment than you intended, but you can at least see why I would perceive what you said as such.
I can agree that the kits are for flavour. You give something up to get something else in return. When it comes down to it, that's the relationship with ALL classes. Give up melee for spellcasting (Mage), give up spellcasting for Melee (Fighter), give up a little combat for utility (thief), etc, etc, etc. Kits just utilize that principle within the class and on a smaller scale.
Specialization, on the other hand, doesn't change anything about the class. It just restricts you from using one type of magic in return for casting more often. I see no reason you can't dual into a specialization.
I agree that there a few too many limitations that seem to be included simply for the sake of being limitations (it seems like this series in particular attracts people who might find this oddly charming). I wouldn't have a problem with being able to dual into it at all. Again, I find the fact that Halflings can't be Bards absurd (I don't have as much a problem with the Gnome limitations, and I find the Dwarven Defender a nice tip the cap to the stout, bearded fellas). And then you can take the above comment about evil kits, or a evil playthrough in general. On balance, it hinders you, makes your journey less predictable and outright locks you out of content, but then again, what you get in return is that being evil and running around with Edwin and Dorn is FUN and they are incredibly powerful and provide great RP options and make the game FEEL different even if only a portion of it changes.
I like this analgy! And yea, it is fairly straight forward. Theres a forum full of awesome people, many of whom have the know how and are willing to help! @Erg has helped me quite a lot since I decided to delve into modding with the IE. @CrevsDaak also provides a lot of inspiration! It's not to bad once you get your head around a few concepts and sink your teeth into notepad++. Besides, if I can figure it out, anyone can. I walked into a glass sliding door this morning so. . . can't be to hard.
Comments
Of course I'd also settle for the Amorphite of
Ghaunadaur specialty priest kit, but afaik @Mordeus hasn't worked on his Faiths of Faerun mod for a year or so.
There was just too much bloody choice. I replayed the first act so often, created so many different characters I eventually just burnt out on the game. Having to deal with Neera's whining and clinginess didn't help.
At least you can kill Aerie.
If I installed one, I would have installed 50.
I LOVE kits and classes -- it is what drew me to these games (starting with BG) years ago. Forget stressing over NWN2 builds: I spent hours and hours stressing over how to build a team for IWD2. I mean I couldn't sleep for weeks and work... please. I mapped out every possible combination of skills and talents for 4 to 6 characters. Until i realized -- hey this just isnt fun. Give me a fighter and a mage and a rogue and a cleric (and a bard because I love bards) and let's go. Same exact thing for NWN2. I mean finally I just did a pure bard (maybe one level of fighter) and that was the best,. But holy crap the days and days of studying kits...I tried this crazy ranged stormlord build with shurikens on nwnw2 that was fun for while but crikey I spent more time planning than playing.
At least with NWN2 I had one character to obsesses about. IWD2 I had a whole party!
I think NWN2 has a lot of great stuff but the mechanics and the fact that you are stuck with certain PCs for a time does limit re-playability. CaloNord your crack about West Harbor is the best. It as lame, but I actually do enjoy getting that Harvest Cup. I probably won that thing 20 times. I for one got sick of that damned keep -- the first time I got there it was a blast, but eventually, it stopped my replays dead in their tracks in chapter 2 or 3 I think. Who needs to find resources to mine -- i am bard who wants to sing!
Anyway, I too want more kits for BGEE but I say that not having yet tried (after dozens of play throughs starting with the originals in the 19990s) jester, Cavalier, beastmaster, avenger, bounty hunter, bezerker... and none of the new kits (shadowdancer seems fun and RDD seems under done but still fun -- why not additional breath weapon uses?). I love moddded kits but it is not like I have played all the orginal ones yet (nor the EE ones). i do hear folks on the lack of cleric options though.
Post patch I plan to do a Wizard slayer / thief illegal multi or an Avenger. I can't tell you how much I am already wrestling with which one of those to choose and how to play them. Avenger as spider-man or mage/druid spell meister? Can I really be a wizard slayer / thief when I can't use potions of master thievery until UAI? Should i be a dart chucking spell killing wunderkind or a poison dagger backstabber... ah the joy / the pain...
I got Shattered Lands to run in DosBox, but it crashed whenever I saved.
I find the whole concept of mental magic to be really awesomely cool and unique. Even if it was implemented as a mage with a spell book of unique spells rather then by the points system. That would be cool.
I've always wanted to ask an Illithid that.
(Though a psionic mage kit would just spell more competition in the brain-eating business...)
There are some other psionic abilities already in the game, as well: spin542 through spin547. There may be others I have overlooked. The effects could be the usual psi abilities--control/domination/charm, psionic invisibility, telekinesis (either push or pull, using the 'wing buffet' effect, or holding them still by setting movement rate to 0), teleportation (you run the risk of breaking the game here and there, though), pyro-/cryo-/electrokinesis (apply the appropriate damage to the target), etc. If you applied blur, translucent, and passwall effects you could even approximate astral projection, especially if you really implement this via the simulacrum effects. Oh, I forgot--clairvoyance.
Didn't someone already make a psionic abilities mod?
But yeah, anyway....I don't know how many runs of both games you would have to do to get to the point where you need more kits. I imagine I'll be collecting social security by that time.
Well, if it's not tangible, then what's the problem with letting us combine? And if it IS tangible, then certainly you can understand why I would want this.
And I can also see why you wouldn't consider them a kit, though I would, since I guess I view a kit as gaining something, losing something else, and adding a nice fancy name to the class. I was recently playing my first run of Icewind Dale and thought it would be just swell to be a Conjurer when in fact it locked me out of damn near every useful spell you can use in the first two chapters, but hey, that's the fun of it :P
Maybe I read a little more into your comment than you intended, but you can at least see why I would perceive what you said as such.
I can agree that the kits are for flavour. You give something up to get something else in return. When it comes down to it, that's the relationship with ALL classes. Give up melee for spellcasting (Mage), give up spellcasting for Melee (Fighter), give up a little combat for utility (thief), etc, etc, etc. Kits just utilize that principle within the class and on a smaller scale.
Specialization, on the other hand, doesn't change anything about the class. It just restricts you from using one type of magic in return for casting more often. I see no reason you can't dual into a specialization.
http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/10852/site-rules-mind-the-gap