Backstab with any weapon? (Level 1 NPC mod)

Flashburn

For a while now I've been wanting to change up my play style with thieves, and backstabbing with any weapon sounds like it would do the trick. The problem is that the Level 1 NPC mod is still not compatible with BG(2)EE so I can't do this ( @Miloch‌ ).

I've tried looking in NearInfinity for a solution but I know exactly jack-squat about how the more complicated stuff works. I tested out making a two-handed sword +1 being able to backstab by letting single-class thieves use it and that worked, but I'd prefer not to have to go through every single weapon and flag it like that. Plus that basically gives thieves UAI when it comes to weapons and I'd prefer not to do that.

How does Level 1 NPCs do it? Is there a 2da I can modify or is it hard-coded?

Thanks.

Tresset

I think it is hard coded so that only weapons usable by a kitless thief are backstab compatible.

AstroBryGuy

Level 1 NPCs does it the way you did it. By setting the usability flags for every (melee) weapon to be usable by single-class thieves.

Emmi

Can somebody please explain to me how to do the thing where you flag 2 handed swords so its possible to backstab with them? it sounds like a fun concept, albeit a bit op, but hey, its for fun

Flashburn

Well I've been backstabbing with the Chelsey Crusher halberd for the past few days and its so satisfying rolling anywhere from 50-70 with a x4 backstab.

@Emmi‌
1. Go into NearInfinity and find the weapon you want to backstab with under the ITM category on the left (SW2H02 was what I experimented with)
2. Click on it and go into the Edit tab
3. Click on the "Unusable by" category and uncheck Thief from the list, then save it.

the_spyder

So, to start off with, "Play how you have fun". With that having been said, I personally don't see the need to be able to back stab with a two handed sword. I get that a lot of people confuse this with the later versions of "Sneak attack", and that actually makes sense to do with any weapon. But (for my playing style alone), I just don't see a flail fitting between the rib cage and puncturing some vital organs as such.

Enough of my two cents. Please everyone feel free to play as YOU enjoy, not as others indicate.

Flashburn

Quarterstaves and clubs aren't exactly capable of piercing vital organs either but those are weapons that can backstab by default.

Since they can do that, I don't see anything stopping someone from taking a warhammer, sneaking up on an enemy, and smacking them upside the head and calling that a backstab either. As an aside though, I much prefer Sneak Attacks to Backstabs anyway because it lets rogues contribute more to combat.

the_spyder

@flashburn - LOL. Fair enough. Again, merely as an academic discussion (and not in any way attempting to tell YOU how to have fun), I can almost see clubs as being used like a SAP sort of weapon and them being lumped together "For that type of attack". Presumably Staves were included for similar reasons. That still doesn't mean that a Claymore or a halberd should be able to do the same.

There are mechanics in the PnP wherein any character gets bonuses for attacking from behind which amount to a better chance to hit. However, the effect of 'stabbing' (or Sapping with staff or club) of extra damage is very specifically intended for something that could get underneath/between chinks in armor and the rib cage and thus puncture something vital. Merely blind-siding shouldn't increase your chances of hitting something vital enough to triple (or more) your damage.

There is an old episode of Xena- Warrior Princess, where the 'baddies' get some Hephaestus armor which can't be pierced. She hires these assassins who are accomplished at hitting vital and unprotected spots. One of them sticks a knife under the arm pit as a weak spot in armor. Another one uses arrows in the ear etc... That "To me" is classical 'Backstab' attack.

At the end of the day, I bet the rules limiting attacking weapons were as much to give a thief some level of combat ability without making them Gods among damage dealers. I hesitate to use the term 'Balance' related to D&D because there isn't really any such thing, but....

There are arguments on either side. Play as you have fun.